The War To End All Wars

[Dorothy Mae]

You're confusing the issue. What is the difference between God wiping out a people group, or one individual? Except for numbers, no difference at all. When will a people group, or one individual face final judgment? At the same time.

When it’s your relatives, your home, your neighbors, your whole culture, your children, who are horribly wiped out in this life, it makes all the difference in the world. You cannot image what it is to die a horrible death as opposed to a peaceful one.

I understand what you're saying. Believers suffer as our Lord did,

Rare. Today they tend to suffer because of their own wrong choices. He didn’t suffer that way.

ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; 1Pet.4:13

Very very rare, but can you give examples from your life?

The problem we're having understanding each other is because of humdreds of years of misinterpretation of the scriptures.
Somewhere, sometime, in Christian theology, this devilish doctrine of God pouring out his wrath on his Son was invented. Some of the rulers in Jesus' day thought so and they were happy passerbys thought so,

On this I agree but I KNOW God did not feel a relief of wrathful feelings at the crucifixion. What He felt I cannot communicate.

And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God. Lk.23:35

They didnt understand that like his Father, he withheld at that time destroying them for the terrible sins they were committing against him.

That happened in 70 AD.

Here is also where Heb.12:6 applies. Using the same agencies, satan used them to curse God, while God used them to teach us about his mercy.

Do you see whatI'm saying?

the Spirit ofChrist which was in them 1Pet.1:11

No, that's not my position. My position is, the revelation of Christ is a recurring thing that happens to people in every age, from Adam and Eve until the end of time as we know it. The players may be different, but the results are always the same.

A bit too ethereal for me.

Yes, I understand you. I didn't mean to imply the things of life as people perceive them are neverending.

I'm sure God punished me in my life so I would consider him. I believe God works this way in many peoples' lives every day.

If you don’t KNOW it was Gods punishment and why, it’s useless.

I believe this earth and all that is in it, in some way is a representation of the heavenly realm.

No, a great deal is not at all.

When Christ judges the living and dead, no one will be judged as "a people". There's justbelievers and unbelievers.

Each will be judged by the deeds done while in the body, believers or not.

The etheral is compared to the earthly throughout the scriptures.

Actually God is extremely down to earth practical.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

God chastens those he loves.

The ungodly are not so, they are sleek and fat and have no problems.

King David knew.

eddif

I know quite a few ungodly who have lots of problems and are poor.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

One belief the rabbis' have is that God will come down and split the mountain. They believe God will destroy those who fought against the Jewish people. The gentiles who are left will worship God, keeping the Feast of Tabernacles.
The Feast of Tabernacles commemorates Gods' provision to his people after being delivered from slavery. His people rejoiced in temporary shelters as they brought in the fall harvest.

Some christians think this too. Of course they ignore what Jesus had to say about the Jewish people towards the end but it feels magnanimous being on the side of the Jews no matter how they behave.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

the Spirit ofChrist which was in them 1Pet.1:11

That scripture does not refer to all the OT saints. You said the spirit of Christ was in all the OT saints. That is not true. This verse says only the prophets had the spirit of Christ. That is an important difference.

 

[ezrider]

He put his feet upon the Mt. of Olives during his earthly ministry.

You need to familiarize yourself with Zachariah's prophesy concerning Jesus's return on the Mount of Olives
You are right that Jesus certainly walked the Mount of Olives while He was here the first time.
But Zachariah says that when He comes again the entire Mount of Olives will be split in two at the touch of His feet:


Zec 14:4
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Jesus already stood upon the mount of Olives, and the mountain has indeed split, half toward the north, which we call Mt Sion, the other half toward the south, which we call Mt Sinai. Just as Paul uses in an allegory in the book of Galatians to describe the two covenants.

When Jesus said if you had faith the size of a mustard seed, you could say to that mountain be thou removed.... Mt Sinai is the only mountain that requires faith to cast aside!

 

[Consecrated Life]

One belief the rabbis' have is that God will come down and split the mountain. They believe God will destroy those who fought against the Jewish people.

"God " ?
How would Jewish rabbis conceive that " God" has feet ?

 

[Consecrated Life]

Jesus already stood upon the mount of Olives, and the mountain has indeed split, half toward the north, which we call Mt Sion, the other half toward the south, which we call Mt Sinai. Just as Paul uses in an allegory in the book of Galatians to describe the two covenants.

Jesus has already descended upon the Mount Of Olives following His witnessed ascension ?
When did He return upon the Mount ?
Who witnessed it ?

 

[journeyman]

When it’s your relatives, your home, your neighbors, your whole culture, your children, who are horribly wiped out in this life, it makes all the difference in the world.

You know, Dorothy Mae. It makes all the difference in the world when we take your point and apply it to how Jesus was mistreated. It also makes all the difference to the scriptures.

You cannot image what it is to die a horrible death as opposed to a peaceful one.

Jesus died with the peace that passes all human understanding. So will we, no matter how terrible the suffering,

Let not your hearts be troubled. You believe in God, believe also in me. Jn.14:1

I love this verse, because our Lord was a few hours away from being arrested. Amazing!

Rare. Today they tend to suffer because of their own wrong choices. He didn’t suffer that way.
Very very rare, but can you give examples from your life?

Rateness today isn't the point and I can't give you an example of anything in my life approaching how his disciples who wrote the Bible suffered, as I live in the USA, but if I'm called on to suffer that way, I will and so would you. I can tell you I'm currently going through the most painful time in my life mentally, but my faith in him is holding me up and will continue to.
But you are right that Jesus didn't suffer for his own wrongdoing. Quite the opposite, as he suffered for doing right,

they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love. Psa.109:5

The point is, we learn from what they wrote and here's what they said,

they left the council rejoicing because they had been considered worthy to suffer dishonor for the sake of the name.
Acts 5:41

On this I agree but I KNOW God did not feel a relief of wrathful feelings at the crucifixion. What He felt I cannot communicate.

I think Father felt a great deal of anger at how his Son was being abused,

“Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?” "He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” Mt.21:40-41

That happened in 70 AD.

Closer to 33 AD, but the point is, it happened to his body. His body is also composed of believers, so, expect no difference.

Each will be judged by the deeds done while in the body, believers or not.

I agree.

Actually God is extremely down to earth practical.
He is in the person of Jesus, so I guess he's a down to earth God which the earth can contain.

 

[journeyman]

That scripture does not refer to all the OT saints. You said the spirit of Christ was in all the OT saints. That is not true. This verse says only the prophets had the spirit of Christ. That is an important difference.

Or around them, as the Spirit and word are synonymous. Believers have always had his word in their hearts.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Or around them, as the Spirit and word are synonymous. Believers have always had his word in their hearts.

Why do you think Spirit and word are synonymous? Why not admit you were in error? The prophets had the Spirit of God, not every believer. We have that privilege today. They didn’t. He poured out his spirit at Pentecost, not before as a regular matter.

 

[journeyman]

"God " ?
How would Jewish rabbis conceive that " God" has feet ?

Good question.

 

[eddif]

Why do you think Spirit and word are synonymous? Why not admit you were in error? The prophets had the Spirit of God, not every believer. We have that privilege today. They didn’t. He poured out his spirit at Pentecost, not before as a regular matter.

Just hunting someone to agree with.
1 Peter 1:10 kjv
10. Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

The prophets were led by the Holy Spirit to speak, but it was Pentecost before understanding starts to really unfold.

The law in hearts and minds is a New Testament thing.

I agree.

 

[journeyman]

Why do you think Spirit and word are synonymous?

Because they're interchangable.

Why not admit you were in error?

Because I'm not.

The prophets had the Spirit of God, not every believer.

By faith, every believer.

We have that privilege today. They didn’t. He poured out his spirit at Pentecost, not before as a regular matter.

On all flesh since Pentecost. Christ was with OT believerseven in the wilderness.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Because they're interchangable.

No they aren’t. The word communicates matters. The Spirit is a Being.

Because I'm not.

By faith, every believer.

On all flesh since Pentecost. Christ was with OT believerseven in the wilderness.

The Spirit did not fill those rebellious people. The Spirit was upon prophets. With is not in.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Just hunting someone to agree with.
1 Peter 1:10 kjv
10. Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

The prophets were led by the Holy Spirit to speak, but it was Pentecost before understanding starts to really unfold.

The law in hearts and minds is a New Testament thing.

I agree.

What occurred at Pentecost was more than simply understanding

 

[eddif]

Because they're interchangable.

Because I'm not.

By faith, every believer.

On all flesh since Pentecost. Christ was with OT believerseven in the wilderness.

The word became flesh (Jesus)
Jesus baptizes us into the Holy Spirit and fire.

The Father
The Son Jesus
The Holy Spirit

All agree, but have different functions they have and are doing.

In redneck words
eddif

 

[journeyman]

No they aren’t. The word communicates matters. The Spirit is a Being.

the Word was God. Jn.1:1

I understand we're talking about the oral or written word, but that's meaningless without the Author.

The Spirit did not fill those rebellious people. The Spirit was upon prophets. With is not in.

I'm pretty sure somewhere along the line I said in or around them. Anyway, OT believers followed the Spirit of God

 

[journeyman]

The word became flesh (Jesus)
Jesus baptizes us into the Holy Spirit and fire.

The Father
The Son Jesus
The Holy Spirit

All agree, but have different functions they have and are doing.

In redneck words
eddif

I'm ok with that, because the Means justifies the ends.

 

[eddif]

I'm ok with that, because the Means justifies the ends.

Yes He does judge the means at the end.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

the Word was God. Jn.1:1

The Word was WITH God.

I understand we're talking about the oral or written word, but that's meaningless without the Author.

No, words can be powerful even if the author isn’t known. Words have power.

I'm pretty sure somewhere along the line I said in or around them. Anyway, OT believers followed the Spirit of God

The Bible says they followed or kept the law.

I think we’re probably just too different in our thinking. You are rather etheral and I am practical.