A Theological and Exegetical Examination of Holy Spirit Baptism

[Mitspa]

By the time Paul wrote to the church of Christ in Ephesus there was but one baptism, Eph.4:5. That means there cannot be two, three or more baptisms today. Holy Spirit baptism as per John the Baptist and Jesus was a promise and a promise cannot be obeyed. Water baptism is a command, Matt.28:19,20. A command can be obeyed. The command to baptize in Matt. 28:19,20 is to continue to the end of the world according to Jesus. Thus, in a "nutshell" the "one baptism" is that of water and it being for the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:38.

God bless

If your happy without it? I am happy with it!
The scriptures are clear the "promise of the Holy Spirit is until the end" Some of you edge close to blasphemy?

Jud 1:18

How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Jud 1:19

These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
Jud 1:20

But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Mar 16:17

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

have what ever you want, but dont speak evil of things you know nothing about!

 

[ezra]

In Acts 1:1-8 Jesus was only speaking to His apostles. In Jn 14 and 15 the apostles were promised the COmforter and that Comforter would only come to the apostles when Jesus first went away, Jn 16:7. In Acts 1 Jesus was leaving the apostles so that the Comforter would come to them. The Comforter would teach the apostles "all things, and bring all things to your (apostles) remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you (apostles)", Jn 14:26. Again this was only a promise to the apostles.

since when?

 

[ezra]

My question(s) to Mr Feeney would be in what verse has anyone today been promised baptism with the Holy Spirit? Was the Euncuh lost since he was only water baptized and not baptized with the Holy Spirit?

we receive the holy spirit at the new birth . the filling of the spirit is to be led of the spirit..

 

[Justin_Gilpin]

we receive the holy spirit at the new birth . the filling of the spirit is to be led of the spirit..

So the next question is... who is willing to be led by the Spirit?

 

[Webb]

Mitspa--You would do well to read carefully what one has written. I didn't say the Holy Spirit was not promised until the end of the world. Acts 2:38,39 clearly says upon obedience to baptism remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit are "unto as many as are afar off". What I AM saying is that the baptism of the Holy Spirit IS NOT unto the end of the world. Do you know the difference between the Holy Spirit and the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Mitspa]

Mitspa--You would do well to read carefully what one has written. I didn't say the Holy Spirit was not promised until the end of the world. Acts 2:38,39 clearly says upon obedience to baptism remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit are "unto as many as are afar off". What I AM saying is that the baptism of the Holy Spirit IS NOT unto the end of the world. Do you know the difference between the Holy Spirit and the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

do you? Is being brought into the Holy Spirit of God a matter of a word? If you dont Like that word? dont use it! Do you believe in being "filled" with the Holy Spirit? Or has that also past in your understanding of scripture? And Did the Holy Spirit change into a weaker Holy Spirit? Think about it? Its the same Holy Spirit and It does not change according to the way one uses the word "baptism"

 

[Webb]

Mitspa--

Just to clear the air, please give one scripture which says, teaches, hints, suggests or commands etc., etc., that the baptism of the Holy Spirit continues to the end of the world. Also, wrestle if you can (which you ignored) vs.39 of Acts 2 which I made to your answer. Ephesians 4:5 says there is ONE (1) baptism. Do you believe that or will you argue with the inspiration of the apostle Paul?

 

[Mitspa]

Mitspa--

Just to clear the air, please give one scripture which says, teaches, hints, suggests or commands etc., etc., that the baptism of the Holy Spirit continues to the end of the world. Also, wrestle if you can (which you ignored) vs.39 of Acts 2 which I made to your answer. Ephesians 4:5 says there is ONE (1) baptism. Do you believe that or will you argue with the inspiration of the apostle Paul?

I already said you can believe what ever you want! I dont really care to convince you of anything. My point was that The Holy Spirit is still the Holy Spirit ! You can call it whatever you want? Its still the Holy Spirit!

:onfire

 

[Webb]

I already said you can believe what ever you want! I dont really care to convince you of anything. My point was that The Holy Spirit is still the Holy Spirit ! You can call it whatever you want? Its still the Holy Spirit!

Mitspa--Of course "The Holy Spirit is still the Holy Spirit!" Who said He wasn't? I didn't. Go back and read. Your last 2 posts were only words, no scripture. Once more, do you have a scripture which teaches the baptism of the Holy Spirit is unto the end of the world? You accuse me of all sorts of things, but where is your answer to such passages I offered as Eph.4:5, Matt.28:18-20 and Acts 2:38:39?

 

[cyberjosh]

In Acts 1:1-5 Jesus was only speaking to His apostles when He promised them "but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence". This promise was not made to anyone today.


From Jn 3:5 Jesus speaks of two elements 1)Spirit and 2) water that puts one in the kingdom. THose same two elements are found in 1 Cor 12:13 where Paul speaks of the Corinthians being born again. The bible is its own best commentary, so if we compare Jn 3:5 with 1 Cor 12:13 we get:

Jn 3:5--------------Spirit+++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1Cor12:13----------SPirit+++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>in the body


Being "in the kingdom" and "in the body" are both equivalent terms, both represent a saved position. Since there is just one way to be saved then both verses MUST express the same idea and it is very clear to me these two verses are speaking of water baptism and not some kind of spirit baptism.

Unfortunately here is where we begin to get into interpretational differences. Firstly, since Scripture is good commentary on itsef, we know from other Scriptures that the word baptism is not always used of a literal immersion and also not always in water, so you cannot unqualifiedly try to associate the singular use of the word 'baptize' 1 Corinthians 12:13 with water baptism without good reason. For example "fire" is one other thing promised for a figurative immersion or baptism into, and obviously 'Spirit' was the other figurative substance into which one can be immersed (Matthew 3:11). From baptizo's root word bapto we also see that it has the general connotation 'dip', such as when Jesus dipped (bapto) his bread into the dish at the Last Supper (John 13:26). 1 Corinthians 12:13 very obviously describes a spiritual action of union (immersion) into the body of Christ by the (means or medium of the) Spirit, and a parallel passage in 1 Corinthians 10:2-4 with similar wording shows this:

"All were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ."

Compare 1 Corinthians 12:13:

"For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit."

The "baptized into" terminology is figurative in both passages (the first essentially meaning "united together unto Moses" and the second "united together unto the body [of Christ]"), and also the "drink" is spiritual in both cases, not describing literal water.

One final point, in Acts 15:11 Peter said Jew and Gentile are saved in like manner way. The like manner way the Jews in Acts 2 and Gentiles in Acts 10 were saved was by water baptism in the name of the Lord for remission of sins and not by baptism with the Holy Spirit. (I know of no verse that teaches baptism with the Holy Spirit saves/remits sins).

I think you have it backwards to be honest. The only point of comparison between the Gentiles' and the Jews' salvation experience (other than the required element of faith/believing) specifically hinged on the evidence of the baptism with the Spirit.

"While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days." (Acts 10:44-48)

Note that the "also" and "just as we have" both refer to the Holy Spirit being poured out on the Gentiles (which Peter associated with the baptism with the Spirit in the next chapter), and the water baptism only comes afterward and was never the object of the "also" or "just as we have" comparison.

Again in the next chapter:

"And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?”
When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life." (Acts 11:15-18)

The "as upon us at the beginning" and "same gift as He gave us" that are speaking of the Spirit Baptism are the specific points of comparison between the Jews' experience and the Gentiles', not the water baptism, and clearly they are associated with what happened "when we believed". The allusion to water baptism is not given until the end in the form of not being able to "withstand" God in light of what He had already done, with what God had done (poured out the Spirit/baptized with the Spirit) being the whole point of comparison.

God Bless,
~Josh

 

[cyberjosh]

By the time Paul wrote to the church of Christ in Ephesus there was but one baptism, Eph.4:5. That means there cannot be two, three or more baptisms today. Holy Spirit baptism as per John the Baptist and Jesus was a promise and a promise cannot be obeyed. Water baptism is a command, Matt.28:19,20. A command can be obeyed. The command to baptize in Matt. 28:19,20 is to continue to the end of the world according to Jesus. Thus, in a "nutshell" the "one baptism" is that of water and it being for the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:38.

God bless

Webb, you bring up a very interesting point, but if you look at Paul's other uses of baptism in Romans 6:3, Galatians 3:27, and 1 Corinthians 12:13 is stands equally, if not more, likely that the baptism Paul mentions in Ephesians 4:5 is the spiritual baptism mentioned in those passages, and also "one body" "one Spirit" "one hope" "one Lord" "one faith" and "one God and Father of all" all call to mind spiritual realities in the Christian's life and persons of the Trinity who minister those realities. It would seem odd for Paul to interject a sacrament or rite of water baptism into this, especially since water baptism does not save (it is the elements of faith, confession, and repentance which bring that about).

In fact Paul could solely be refering to Spirit Baptism here and yet still not be implying that "water baptism is not valid" because simply I don't even think he has it in mind here at all, and I think that trying to say that a meaning here of Spiritual Baptism would set it exclusionarily against water baptism would betray Paul's meaning and intent. Paul very obviously speaks here of "one"-ness and the idea is "unity", and which of all of Paul's other writings most closely associate the idea of oneness and unity with the word baptism as in Ephesians 4:5? Yep: 1 Corinthians 12:13 and Galatians 3:27-28.

God Bless,
~Josh

 

[Webb]

Hi Cyberjosh

If agreed that water baptism has not been voided and the fact that Paul says there is but 1 baptism I cannot see any other way. Either Spirit baptism is to the end of the world or water baptism is. As John's baptism is no longer valid, so either Spirit or water baptism is no longer valid. The baptism of the Holy Spirit was a promise, so say both Jesus and John the Baptist. The baptism mentioned in Matt.28:19,20 is commanded and according to Jesus is to the end of the world.

Going to bed now, been a long day. Have a blest night and rest.

 

[Carolyn]

In Acts 1 it says we shall receive POWER when the Holy Spirit comes upon us. This seems to be the power to do God's will, to witness, to obey Him. Peter, the coward became the bold preacher who accused the Jews "this Jesus whom you crucified." 5000 were saved that day! And the disciples were refilled several times in Acts. In fact, the Greek tense of the word translated "be filled" means to keep on being filled (Present progressive, perhaps. It has been a long times since I took Greek) So we should continually surrender to God and seek His power to do those things He asks of us.
Yes, we are all born again at our conversion. The Holy Spirit baptizes us all into the body of Christ. But it is Christ who baptizes us in the Holy Spirit. Two different Persons of the Trinity doing 2 different things.
I see too many people trying to do God's work in their own power instead of the power and guidance of the Spirit. They burn out, have nervous break downs, and they have poor results.

 

[cyberjosh]

Hi Cyberjosh

If agreed that water baptism has not been voided and the fact that Paul says there is but 1 baptism I cannot see any other way. Either Spirit baptism is to the end of the world or water baptism is. As John's baptism is no longer valid, so either Spirit or water baptism is no longer valid.

I do not believe that such an either/or proposition is necessary or even correct. That is what I was trying to say.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit was a promise, so say both Jesus and John the Baptist.

The Holy Spirit Himself being sent was a promise also, but He has not ceased to be given to every believer today. Part of those very promises of the Spirit were that He would come and remain with them, and anything God says He "will" do is a promise from Him.

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you." (John 14:26)

"It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you." (John 16:7)

And Jesus specifically referred back to the things he had told the disciples about the Holy Spirit, which are recorded in the Gospels, when he said the Promise of the Father was about to arrive:

"He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me." (Acts 1:4)

And very clearly Jesus' promises were not only for the disciples of that day! That would be absurd and render the promises in the Gospels useless to any saint today.

Jesus particularly prayed to His Father before His passion:

"I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me." (John 17:20-21)

The baptism mentioned in Matt.28:19,20 is commanded and according to Jesus is to the end of the world.

I fail to see what this has to do with Ephesians 4:5. None of the things mentioned in Ephesians 4:5 are 'commands' but rather statements of spiritual realities and facts in the saints through God.

Going to bed now, been a long day. Have a blest night and rest.

Have a good rest brother!

God Bless,
~Josh

 

[cyberjosh]

Hi Josh,

Thank you for your feedback...I certainly learned a lot looking into it and appreciate your enthusiasm and wisdom on the topic.

BornAgain

I almost forgot to reply to this. Thanks for the kind words BornAgain. As I said this is a sincere truth seeking effort for me. I am very tired and weary from all the times that I've seen the Word 'manhandled' and confused, and I am seeking the truth earnestly now no matter what beliefs it may cost me.

May God bless you and keep you!
~Josh

 

[BornAgain]

I almost forgot to reply to this. Thanks for the kind words BornAgain. As I said this is a sincere truth seeking effort for me. I am very tired and weary from all the times that I've seen the Word 'manhandled' and confused, and I am seeking the truth earnestly now no matter what beliefs it may cost me.

May God bless you and keep you!
~Josh

Hi,

We were speaking of the Holy Spirit Baptism in your OP but I am with Ernest T. Bass and Webb regarding this topic. Water baptism is essential and a command...I am not back peddling here and was trying to stay on topic from your OP. I do have to hold true to the truth regarding this and would not want to mislead you in any way.
John 3:5-7 KJV

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

To be saved one must believe, repent, confess and be baptized for (unto) the remission of sins. Heb 11:6 Luke 13:3 Rom 10:10. To enter the kingdom one must be born of water and the Spirit. Since things equal to the same thing are equal to each other, it follows that to be born of water and the Spirit is to believe the gospel, repent of one's sins, confess one's faith in Christ and be baptized for the remission sins. John 3:5 states what is literally affirmed in Acts 2:38. To be born "anew" is simply to obey the gospel. It is not surprising that those who deny to baptism its proper place among the conditions of pardon would interpret "water" in John 3:5http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jn+3:5 to mean something other than baptism; in so doing, they are in conflict with the teachings.

You are right when you say there is so much controversy regarding baptism, but I have to sleep knowing I told you the truth. Please study it for yourself....

 

[Blev]

Re: Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?

---

The sentence, "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit," does not necessarily mean that the baptism became "universal" at some point. It could simply mean that Paul was appealing to their known common experience. I fail to see where this means that all Christians must be considered to have been baptized in the Holy Ghost during the conversion experience. Certainly the bible shows that this isn't in fact the case. How can we conclude otherwise? But nobody is saying that the Promise of the Father is restricted. The promise of the Father is given to all, even as many as the Lord shall call.

Jesus spoke to his disciples (those whom He had already died for) and said, "John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.†But does this mean that only those certain Disciples can expect to be baptized in the Holy Spirit? No. The Promise is to as many as the Lord shall call.

Gentiles
Acts 11:15-17
15 "As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' 17 So if God gave them the same gift as he gave us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could oppose God?" NIV

The Samaritans
Acts 8:14-17
14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. NIV

How do we make sense of Paul's question, "Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?" if all believers are filled at the "threshold of the Christian life." All of the scriptural examples of the BHS speak of this as a separate and distinct experience.

Disciples at Ephesus:
Paul asked, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" (NIV)

Acts 19:1-7
19:1 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"

They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."

3 So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"

"John's baptism," they replied.

4 Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5 On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all. NIV

Good Scriptures Sparrowhawke

When we are born again (saved) we are

baptized by the Spirit into the Body for Christ,

but we arebaptized by Jesus with the Holy Spirit,

as it says Jesus would do in Matthew 3:11 .Its easy to see the difference there. At salvation the Holy Spirit comes inside us.In being baptized or filled with the Spirit, He comes upon us, that pouring out upon us to be endued with power to be a witnesses in all the earth.

 

[Blev]

In Acts 1 it says we shall receive POWER when the Holy Spirit comes upon us. This seems to be the power to do God's will, to witness, to obey Him. Peter, the coward became the bold preacher who accused the Jews "this Jesus whom you crucified." 5000 were saved that day! And the disciples were refilled several times in Acts. In fact, the Greek tense of the word translated "be filled" means to keep on being filled (Present progressive, perhaps. It has been a long times since I took Greek) So we should continually surrender to God and seek His power to do those things He asks of us.
Yes, we are all born again at our conversion. The Holy Spirit baptizes us all into the body of Christ. But it is Christ who baptizes us in the Holy Spirit. Two different Persons of the Trinity doing 2 different things.
I see too many people trying to do God's work in their own power instead of the power and guidance of the Spirit. They burn out, have nervous break downs, and they have poor results.

:amen

I posted the same thing you did about the differences. I hadn't read your post yet, I didn't mean to be an echo

 

[Mitspa]

I already said you can believe what ever you want! I dont really care to convince you of anything. My point was that The Holy Spirit is still the Holy Spirit ! You can call it whatever you want? Its still the Holy Spirit!

Mitspa--Of course "The Holy Spirit is still the Holy Spirit!" Who said He wasn't? I didn't. Go back and read. Your last 2 posts were only words, no scripture. Once more, do you have a scripture which teaches the baptism of the Holy Spirit is unto the end of the world? You accuse me of all sorts of things, but where is your answer to such passages I offered as Eph.4:5, Matt.28:18-20 and Acts 2:38:39?

My point was you can remove the word "baptism" and it does not change the Holy Spirit. Yes the Holy Spirit is to be with us unto the end. Now, why should i quote a scripture to prove something you already have said you agree with?

 

[Webb]

Mitspa, the real point is the "baptism" is not the "Holy Spirit" any more than John's baptism was actually John. And, of course, I'm still waiting for that verse (or verses) teaching the promise of Holy Spirit baptism continuing "unto the end of the world.

Have a blest day