A Theological and Exegetical Examination of Holy Spirit Baptism

[ezra]

:yes:amen thank ya

 

[farouk]

:yes:amen thank ya

ezra:

YW

 

[Justin_Gilpin]

5 For those who livep according to the flesh think about the things of the flesh,q but those who liver according to the Spirit, about the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind-set of the fleshs is death,t but the mind-set of the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For the mind-set of the flesh is hostileu to God because it does not submit itself to God’s law, for it is unable to do so. 8 Those who are in the fleshv cannot please God. 9 You, however, are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, sincew the Spirit of God lives in you.x{ But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ,y he does not belong to Him. }10 Now if Christ is in you,z the body is deada because of sin, but the Spiritb is life because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the deadc lives in you, then He who raised Christ from the dead will also bring your mortal bodies to life throughd His Spirit who lives in you. no spirit==no salvation

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
baptizo.... ) to dip repeatedly, to (immerse, to submerge) (of vessels sunk)
2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean
with water, to wash one's self, bathe
3) to overwhelm
another word saturated--indwelt ..so yes the baptism of the spirit is today*** it takes place at the new Birth ..i do reject it as evidence of speaking in tongues .. that is a spiritual gift yes i do believe tongues are for today. even though i do not fully understand tongues. the Bible says But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
1 Corinthians 12:31 or do we rip that section out of the Bible

Ezra, you are very wise. God has blessed you with wisdom from above I don't think these people actually read these verses. They read them to fit their beliefs and piece the verses together like its a puzzle. Though, the Bible was written to be understood. God says He's not a confusing God, why should the Holy Spirit be so confusing to many? Because they are grieving the Holy Spirit and what He is saying.

51“You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you. 52Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who announced beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, whom you have now betrayed and murdered, 53you who received the law as delivered by angels and did not keep it.†Acts 7:51-53

 

[Webb]

Hi Ezra

I Cor.12:13 says nothing about the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The one Spirit guided the apostles into all truth Jn.14:26 for example. They wrote it down. The baptism of this passage must be water as water baptism puts one into Christ and it is the ONLY baptism that according to Jesus is to last unto the end of the world. When you can find a passage teaching Holy Spirit baptism lasting unto the end of the world then and only then will you have a case for Holy Spirit baptism in I Cor.12:13. Do also practice water baptism? Do you also think you have been baptized with Holy Spirit baptism? Remember, Paul said there is only ONE baptism. Because the one Spirit teaches baptism into Christ and that by water this explains I Cor.12:13. While I may sound repetitious I repeat, until anyone shows by scripture that Holy Spirit baptism was to last to the end of the world you have no case!

 

[Blev]

Exactly. All, truly born again believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, by Whom we cry: Abba Father (Romans 8).

True. I don't think there is anyone on this thread that does not believe that

 

[Hammer]

Now the simple, and rather sloppy and hasty, assertion that could be made is that because the entire book of Acts is about the birth of the Church that "of course" the 1 Corinthians 12:13 baptism in the Spirit is in view in Acts as well. However I believe that a context sensitive approach to interpeting the passages in Acts & the Gospels and the passage in 1 Corinthians should be taken and thoroughly evaluated first, each independantly in their own context, before attempting to mesh them together. That is the proper way to approach doctrine, interpretation, and exegesis. If after that exegetical analysis (more colloquially referred to as "rightly dividing the Word") has been properly done it is found that the concepts, purposes, and functions of the ministry of the Spirit in both instances perfectly fit together as the same work of the Spirit then it may be conceded that they are one and the same as a doctrinal and theological concept or aspects of the exact same action.

Are you seeing how much you can talk actually saying anything?

 

[cyberjosh]

Are you seeing how much you can talk actually saying anything?

Methodology and hermeneutics (just a fancy word for a consistent approach to interpretation) are important so that you are not throwing around interpretations carelessly with no thought. If I were to give a one line question "Are 1 Corinthians 12:13 and Acts 1 talking of the same baptism?" I would get the same replies I've seen in many other threads, many with a lot of claims and little exegesis to back it up. Most people merge ideas in their mind because of their denominational beliefs or other assumptions about Scripture that they grew up with, and knowingly or unknowingly bring that interpretation to their reading of Scripture. That to an extent is unavoidable but that isn't an excuse not to do good exegesis (especially reading the text in context).

What you quoted was me asking people to step back and take a breath, interpret them separately first, and then see if they are compatable/talking about the same baptism. Most people would start by saying: "Because my view is correct, and baptism of the Spirit is [something], therefore both these verses mean [this]", and not, "Okay, here is what each of them appear to mean in context, how can I then compare them?".

I'm sorry if I did not make that clear.

 

[cyberjosh]

Proper exegesis requires a word be understood by its primary, literal meaing unless the context shows the word to be used in some other figurative way.

In Jn 3:5 water means literal water just as spirit means literal spirit for nothing in the context has water or spirit mean anything figurative.

In 1 Cor 12:13 baptized from baptizo means a literal immersion. Nothing in the context shows it to maean anything other than its literal meaning.

[truncated for space]

Ernest,

I just wanted to let you know that I plan on replying to your post. I have to go somewhere directly after work tomorrow and will not be home until late, but I hope to get back to you by the end of the week if not sooner.

God Bless,
~Josh

 

[cyberjosh]

In the meantime, are there any further insights on the OP??? We can go down many rabbit trails and subtopics about the ministry of the Spirit, but how does the Spirit's uniting us into the Body of Christ (ultimately a spiritual action - even if using the word for immersion) in 1 Corinthians 12:13 relate to the joyful promise of the Baptism with the Spirit in Acts which Jesus gave to the disciples for empowerment in their ministry?

Surely with all the believers on this board someone has some insight through the illumination of the Holy Spirit and a careful reading of Scripture to even simply suggest how they are related, as being performed by the one and same Holy Spirit who is still at work in us today, even if it is not a "surefire" or "infallible" interpretation. Any even general directions along which to think about it? What about purpose and intent for the baptism in each? I want to stay on topic if at all possible!

And perhaps, really, discussion is not the answer on this matter and more personal prayer is in order, on all our parts!

God Bless,
~Josh

 

[Mitspa]

Mitspa--The false prophet (as per your response) is the one who cannot come up with supporting sciptiure. Again, where does scripture provide the supposed comfort of a continuing baptism of the Holy Spirit today? Ephesians 4 clearly states there is but one baptism. It can't be John's or the baptism of fire, or Holy Spirit baptism or water baptism all at the same time. Only one by the time Paul wrote Ephesians. Again, which of the 4 mentioned above is the baptism of Jesus' great commission as per Matt.28:18,19 which is unto the end of the world?

I can find a scripture to match anything my "flesh" whats to believe is true. If I am in my religious pride, I can make the scriptures say whatever. But I always came to the Word of God with a sense of fear and reverance, that some of you seem to lack. Now I personally dont care if you believe that The Holy Spirit still is for today? The truth is so evident that It spreads across the whole world.
Now you, can believe whatever nonsense you want? I see no desire in you for truth. I hope for your sake that God is as full of mercy as I believe Him to be.

Isa 14:24



The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
Isa 14:25



That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.
Isa 14:26



This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.
Isa 14:27



For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?

Joh 14:12



Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greaterworksthan these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13



And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14



If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will doit.
Joh 14:15



If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 14:16



And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17



Eventhe Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

 

[ezra]

Hi Ezra

I Cor.12:13 says nothing about the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The one Spirit guided the apostles into all truth Jn.14:26 for example. They wrote it down. The baptism of this passage must be water as water baptism puts one into Christ and it is the ONLY baptism that according to Jesus is to last unto the end of the world. When you can find a passage teaching Holy Spirit baptism lasting unto the end of the world then and only then will you have a case for Holy Spirit baptism in I Cor.12:13. Do also practice water baptism? Do you also think you have been baptized with Holy Spirit baptism? Remember, Paul said there is only ONE baptism. Because the one Spirit teaches baptism into Christ and that by water this explains I Cor.12:13. While I may sound repetitious I repeat, until anyone shows by scripture that Holy Spirit baptism was to last to the end of the world you have no case!

I Cor.12:13 is the spiritual baptism that takes place at the new birth*

 

[BornAgain]

I Cor.12:13 is the spiritual baptism that takes place at the new birth*

This was speaking of the apostles receiving the Holy Spirit.

Some think that being baptized in one Spirit refers to the baptism in the Holy Spirit. The example of the body led by one Spirit does not bear this interpretation. For it could not be said that they were all made to drink of one Spirit if they had all been baptized or overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit as the apostles had been on the day of Pentecost. Beside this, there is no evidence that all the disciples at Corinth had been baptized in the Holy Spirit. There is no evidence whatever that any of them had been.

This is not a substitute for water baptism which then you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 6:4 KJV

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

"Baptism has a double function. (1) It brings the Christian into personal contact with Christ, so close that it may be described as union with him.

(2) It expresses a series of acts corresponding to the redeeming acts of Christ. Immersion = Death. Submersion = Burial (the ratification of Death). Emergence = Resurrection. All these the Christian has to undergo in a moral and spiritual sense, and by means of his union with Christ.

As Christ by his death on the cross ceased from all contact with sin, so the Christian, united with Christ in his baptism, has done once for all with sin and lives henceforth a reformed life dedicated to God.

1 Peter 3:21 KJV

Baptism also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The baptism which is here declared to save is water baptism, it is a reference to water, ordinary water, the same kind of water in the flood. The baptism which saves is, therefore, water baptism.

Acts 2:37,38

"Brethren, what shall we do?" answered, "Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

John 3:5 (KJV)

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

There is one birth; there are two elements, "water," and "the Spirit." Both are essential to the new birth; and the new birth is essential to entering the kingdom. What is meant by being born of water and the Spirit? To enter the kingdom is to be saved. To be saved one must believe, repent, confess and be baptized for (unto) the remission of sins. Since things equal to the same thing are equal to each other, it follows that to be born of water and the Spirit is to believe the gospel, repent of one's sins, confess one's faith in Christ and be baptized for the remission sins. John 3:5.

 

[Eventide]

Ephesians 1:13

I searched the thread for any reference to Eph 1:13-14, which is imo perhaps the most important scripture reference detailing HOW and WHEN a person is sealed with the Holy Spirit..

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

This is how we are baptized into that one body (the body of Christ) by the miraculous power of the Holy Spirit.. imo it is exactly what 1 Cor 12:13 is speaking of.

Those who insist that water baptism is what places us into Christ must completely ignore this very important truth from the Apostle Paul.. for there is not a single mention of water baptism.. and more importantly.. to be in some cult which preaches and teaches that they're the one true church because they do baptize in water in order to SAVE people.. are seriously misled.. and what's more sad imo is that they can't admit that they're wrong..

It's RELIGIOUS PRIDE at its finest imo.

 

[BornAgain]

Re: Ephesians 1:13

I searched the thread for any reference to Eph 1:13-14, which is imo perhaps the most important scripture reference detailing HOW and WHEN a person is sealed with the Holy Spirit..

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

This is how we are baptized into that one body (the body of Christ) by the miraculous power of the Holy Spirit.. imo it is exactly what 1 Cor 12:13 is speaking of.

Those who insist that water baptism is what places us into Christ must completely ignore this very important truth from the Apostle Paul.. for there is not a single mention of water baptism.. and more importantly.. to be in some cult which preaches and teaches that they're the one true church because they do baptize in water in order to SAVE people.. are seriously misled.. and what's more sad imo is that they can't admit that they're wrong..

It's RELIGIOUS PRIDE at its finest imo.

Hi Eventide...

Can you please explain the other scriptures that are in the Bible that commands water baptism?

 

[Eventide]

Re: Ephesians 1:13

Hi Eventide...

Can you please explain the other scriptures that are in the Bible that commands water baptism?

I sure can.. as soon as you tell me what Paul is speaking of right here in Eph 1:13-14.

 

[BornAgain]

Re: Ephesians 1:13

I sure can.. as soon as you tell me what Paul is speaking of right here in Eph 1:13-14.

Here the Gentile Christians, as from the Jewish nation, are clearly meant. "In whom" is repeated before the close of the sentence, which remains incomplete till near the end of the verse. So far as the Ephesians were concerned, they had heard the word of truth from Paul.


the gospel of your salvation, the word of truth meant this good news of salvation which, through faith, they were enabled to appropriate to their own salvation.

in whom, having also believed,—The repetition of "in whom" keeps the attention fixed upon the main thought in the verse, that all this benefit so received is in Christ. We should notice how constantly the apostle keeps in view the faith which accompanies and conditions all these great benefits. Faith in God enables the humblest to trust and be guided by the wisdom of God. Jesus Christ and his teachings are the perfect wisdom of God, and the simple child of mortality through faith can walk in the light of that wisdom.


ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,—These Ephesians received this gift of the Spirit by the laying on of the hands of Paul. Acts 19:1-7. They received this gift of the Spirit in its miraculous manifestation. We do not; but we receive it in our hearts, by receiving the word of God into our hearts and bring them into subjection to it. The Spirit becomes the controlling element in the heart and dwells there. We do not recognize it by our senses as did those who received the miraculous gifts, but it is nonetheless a real controlling element in the heart and life, bearing fruit of the Spirit. And this Spirit of Christ in the heart is a seal that we have been accepted by God.


Does not include ways to salvation or exclude water baptism. When you are water baptized you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit....Paul was talking to the apostles so they could receive the Holy Spirit to do miracles and speak in tongues.

 

[Eventide]

Re: Ephesians 1:13

Does not include ways to salvation or exclude water baptism.

So being SEALED with the HOLY SPIRIT unto the day of redemption.. after trusting in Christ, and after believing.. is not salvation ?

Absurd.. and imo the result of your one true church preaching and teaching the nonsense that a person is SAVED when they're baptized in water..

God ALONE saves each and every member of His body upon confessing Jesus of Nazareth as LORD.. for whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved...

 

[BornAgain]

Re: Ephesians 1:13

So being SEALED with the HOLY SPIRIT unto the day of redemption.. after trusting in Christ, and after believing.. is not salvation ?

Absurd.. and imo the result of your one true church preaching and teaching the nonsense that a person is SAVED when they're baptized in water..

God ALONE saves each and every member of His body upon confessing Jesus of Nazareth as LORD.. for whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved...

Eventide, omit that I am a member of the Church of Christ and look objectively at scripture...please. Did you look at the other scripture I quoted that says water baptism is a command and we are to obey?

And you did not answer my question as I honestly did yours....

 

[rrowell]

Re: Ephesians 1:13

I sure can.. as soon as you tell me what Paul is speaking of right here in Eph 1:13-14.

Ill tell ya,

It says that "after" you are baptized you are "sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise"

 

[BornAgain]

Re: Ephesians 1:13

Ill tell ya,

It says that "after" you are baptized you are "sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise"

Can you please provide scripture for that?