Are We Lost Without A Church?

[Elihoenai]

Romans 3:4 King James Version

4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Every Man is a Filthy Lying Devil-Satan Worshiping Trash at War with Elohim/God.

The History of Man in a Proverb:

When a thief goes out to steal they do this in the dark to evade detection. When it is time to steal in broad daylight, they state and affirm that stealing is Good and Good is Evil.

 

[JLB]

Is this after physical death?

Yes. Being resurrected from the dead means you have died.

 

[JLB]

The Law of Moses is the Law of Elohim/God.

The law of Moses has been abolished. The law of Moses was added temporarily to the Abrahamic Covenant until the Seed, the Messiah should come.


The law of Moses, the covenant given at Sinai was abolished in His flesh, having been nailed to the cross and taken out of the way. The law of Moses was the dividing wall between Jew and Gentile and has been removed in Christ, whereby we are no longer required to be physically circumcised by man, but we are circumcised in heart by God and in covenant with Him.


But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. Ephesians 2:14-16


Where in the law of Moses is it written for a Man to be a sacrifice for sin?


We are in the New Covenant, and are to obey Christ Jesus.




JLB

 

[JLB]

@JLB, Are you this New Man that is Sinless?

My flesh is not sinless.

My flesh will die, and be resurrected, at His coming.

My inner man has been cleansed of sin by His blood.


JLB

 

[Hopeful]

My flesh is not sinless.

My flesh will die, and be resurrected, at His coming.

My inner man has been cleansed of sin by His blood.


JLB

How can your skin and bones commit sin, against the wishes of your mind?

 

[Elihoenai]

Yes. Being resurrected from the dead means you have died.

Therefore, you are saying that those in Messiah/Christ will get Resurrected Spiritual Body after physical death. Is that correct?

 

[Elihoenai]

The law of Moses has been abolished. The law of Moses was added temporarily to the Abrahamic Covenant until the Seed, the Messiah should come.


The law of Moses, the covenant given at Sinai was abolished in His flesh, having been nailed to the cross and taken out of the way. The law of Moses was the dividing wall between Jew and Gentile and has been removed in Christ, whereby we are no longer required to be physically circumcised by man, but we are circumcised in heart by God and in covenant with Him.


But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. Ephesians 2:14-16


Where in the law of Moses is it written for a Man to be a sacrifice for sin?


We are in the New Covenant, and are to obey Christ Jesus.




JLB

Genesis 17:14 King James Version

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

You must be Circumcised according to the Flesh to be Saved. We must follow our Father Abraham.

 

[Elihoenai]

My flesh is not sinless.

My flesh will die, and be resurrected, at His coming.

My inner man has been cleansed of sin by His blood.


JLB

1 John 3:4 King James Version

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

JLB, Given that you are Sinner, how can the Law be abolished? Sin is the transgression of the Law. A Sinner is a transgressor of the Law.

 

[Elihoenai]

In my #120 post the word "all", that I wrote, was changed to "some" by administrators and yet in this thread no member has answered this question:

The Church is the one the gates of hell has not prevailed against. Does any member on these forums know of "The Church by Messiah/Christ Yeshua/Jesus"?

Any takers on this all-important question.

 

[JLB]

How can your skin and bones commit sin, against the wishes of your mind?

Your flesh, your physical body has sinful cravings that desire to be gratified, which are contray to the born again new nature that is empowered by God's Spirit.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17



JLB

 

[JLB]

Therefore, you are saying that those in Messiah/Christ will get Resurrected Spiritual Body after physical death. Is that correct?

Those in Christ will have their physical body ressurrected at His coming.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Genesis 17:14 King James Version

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

You must be Circumcised according to the Flesh to be Saved. We must follow our Father Abraham.

Show me where Jesus Christ or Paul commanded the Church to be circumcised in order to be saved?


in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
Galatians 5:6




JLB

 

[JLB]

Given that you are Sinner, how can the Law be abolished?

Im not a sinner.

I was a sinner, but now I have been saved by grace through faith, and I belong to Christ.

I follow Christ, the Lord God, the Messiah; the Son of God, and Mediator of the New Covenant.


I obey His law, and His Commandments.


Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
Galatians 6:2


But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Galatians 5:18




JLB

 

[Hopeful]

Genesis 17:14 King James Version

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

You must be Circumcised according to the Flesh to be Saved. We must follow our Father Abraham.

Yes indeed !
If you are a Jew trying to gain salvation according to the past Law.
Thankfully, we are now living under a new covenant whose only two laws are...love God above everything else and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Thankfully.

 

[Hopeful]

Your flesh, your physical body has sinful cravings that desire to be gratified, which are contray to the born again new nature that is empowered by God's Spirit.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17
JLB

I wish you had gone to verse 24 of Gal. 5..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
As "I am Christ's", my old vile affections and lusts were killed when my flesh/body was crucified with Christ.
That which has been reborn of God's seed cannot bring forth the fruit of the devil.

 

[JLB]

I wish you had gone to verse 24 of Gal. 5..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."

Yes those who are Christ’s, who are in Christ are those who live according to the Spirit, and are led by the Spirit.


This is determined throughout the life of the believer.


To remain in Christ, one must obey the Spirit to put to death the deeds of the flesh. This takes time and practice to develop.


God does not require as much from a baby as He does from someone who has been born again for 30, or 40 years.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14

Investing our time towards the things of the Spirit, that develops and strengthens our inner man, whereby we grow up and mature in Christ, being transformed into His image is how we become strong in the spirit, to resist and overcome the sinful desires of the flesh.


Sowing to the Spirit. It’s a choice.


Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8





JLB

 

[Hopeful]

Yes those who are Christ’s, who are in Christ are those who live according to the Spirit, and are led by the Spirit.
This is determined throughout the life of the believer.

Which also means those walking after the flesh are not Christ's.

To remain in Christ, one must obey the Spirit to put to death the deeds of the flesh.

Agreed.

This takes time and practice to develop.

I disagree.
The "flesh" is destroyed at our "immersion" into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection. (Rom 6:3-7)
We are raised from the waters of baptism "to walk in newness of life"...reborn of the Spirit.

God does not require as much from a baby as He does from someone who has been born again for 30, or 40 years.

The only thing "required" is that we love Him above all else and our neighbor as ourselves.
God doesn't allow men to be tempted above what they can handle. (1 Cor 10:13)
No matter how long we are in Christ.

JLB:
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14

And those who aren't led by the Spirit of God are not His sons.

Investing our time towards the things of the Spirit, that develops and strengthens our inner man, whereby we grow up and mature in Christ, being transformed into His image is how we become strong in the spirit, to resist and overcome the sinful desires of the flesh.
Sowing to the Spirit. It’s a choice.
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8

Don't forget we start from a new seed: God's seed and not Adam's.
Man cannot serve Spirit and flesh.
"No man can serve two masters..." (Matt 6:24)

 

[Elihoenai]

Those in Christ will have their physical body ressurrected at His coming.



JLB

Is this Physical Body Corruption?

 

[Elihoenai]

Show me where Jesus Christ or Paul commanded the Church to be circumcised in order to be saved?


in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
Galatians 5:6




JLB

Luke 2:21 King James Version

21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

True Disciples must follow the Life of Yeshua/Jesus exactly and painstakingly to be Saved. Yeshua/Jesus is Circumcised.

 

[Elihoenai]

Im not a sinner.

I was a sinner, but now I have been saved by grace through faith, and I belong to Christ.

I follow Christ, the Lord God, the Messiah; the Son of God, and Mediator of the New Covenant.


I obey His law, and His Commandments.


Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
Galatians 6:2


But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Galatians 5:18




JLB

JLB, Therefore, given the statement that you are not a Sinner, than you are saying that your are Sinless. Is this correct?