Are We Lost Without A Church?

[Elihoenai]

Yes indeed !
If you are a Jew trying to gain salvation according to the past Law.
Thankfully, we are now living under a new covenant whose only two laws are...love God above everything else and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Thankfully.

Genesis 17:23 King James Version

23 And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.

To Love Elohim/God is to Circumcise because the entire Law is summed up in the 2. You must follow the works of Father Abraham and get Circumcised to be Saved. Was Abraham a Jew? Sarah had no seed at the time.

 

[JLB]

Luke 2:21 King James Version

21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

True Disciples must follow the Life of Yeshua/Jesus exactly and painstakingly to be Saved. Yeshua/Jesus is Circumcised.

Please give scripture from Jesus Christ or His apostles that say you must be circumcised in order to be saved.


When Jesus was born, the Jews were still sacrificing animals.

Do you believe we must sacrifice animals to be saved?


Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. Galatians 5:1-2



Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was also named Barsabas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren.
They wrote this letter by them:
The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,
To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:
Greetings.
Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— Acts 15:22-24



Any teaching that says a person must become physically circumcised in order to be saved is a false teaching, and will not be allowed to be promoted at this Forum.




JLB

 

[JLB]

JLB, Therefore, given the statement that you are not a Sinner, than you are saying that your are Sinless. Is this correct?

Im not a sinner. A sinner is someone who is lost; separated from Christ.


I am not sinless as my physical body contains sin.





JLB

 

[JLB]

Was Abraham a Jew?

No. Abraham was a Gentile.

To Love Elohim/God is to Circumcise because the entire Law is summed up in the 2. You must follow the works of Father Abraham and get Circumcised to be Saved. Was Abraham a Jew? Sarah had no seed at the time.

I am circumcised in my heart by the Spirit.


For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.
Romans 2:28-29



JLB

 

[Hopeful]

Genesis 17:23 King James Version

23 And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.

To Love Elohim/God is to Circumcise because the entire Law is summed up in the 2. You must follow the works of Father Abraham and get Circumcised to be Saved. Was Abraham a Jew? Sarah had no seed at the time.

Paul, and the council at Jerusalem, already established we don't need circumcision to be saved. (Acts 15)
It seems it is your doctrine has already been discredited by an apostle of our Lord.

 

[Hopeful]

Im not a sinner. A sinner is someone who is lost; separated from Christ.


I am not sinless as my physical body contains sin.





JLB

Why not get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (for the remission of past sins), and join in His death, burial, and be raised with Christ (as a new creature) to walk in newness of life?
Do this, and your body becomes His body.
Like Paul writes in Gal 2:20..." I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."
Then you can honestly say you have no sin.
And you will be able to continue to say it as long as you manifest your repentance from sin wasn't a lie.

 

[JLB]

Why not get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (for the remission of past sins), and join in His death, burial, and be raised with Christ (as a new creature) to walk in newness of life?

Those who are born again, baptized and have received the Holy Spirit, now have the ability to walk in the newness of life, if they walk according to the Spirit.


Each born again Christian must choose to walk according to the Spirit, rather than walk according to the flesh.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
Galatians 5:16-17




JLB

 

[JLB]

Like Paul writes in Gal 2:20..." I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

Yes that was Paul’s testimony, and his life reflected his commitment to take up his cross daily.

This can only be done by the Spirit.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13



JLB

 

[Elihoenai]

Please give scripture from Jesus Christ or His apostles that say you must be circumcised in order to be saved.


When Jesus was born, the Jews were still sacrificing animals.

Do you believe we must sacrifice animals to be saved?


Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. Galatians 5:1-2



Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was also named Barsabas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren.
They wrote this letter by them:
The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,
To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:
Greetings.
Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— Acts 15:22-24



Any teaching that says a person must become physically circumcised in order to be saved is a false teaching, and will not be allowed to be promoted at this Forum.




JLB

I provided the Scripture that Yeshua/Jesus was Circumcised. To be Saved you must imitate the Life of Yeshua/Jesus entirely. JLB. Do you challenge these two statements?

We agree with everything in Scripture from Genesis to Revelation.

 

[Elihoenai]

Im not a sinner. A sinner is someone who is lost; separated from Christ.


I am not sinless as my physical body contains sin.





JLB

When will this body of Sin be destroyed? Are you saying that the Mind does not contain Sin?

 

[Elihoenai]

No. Abraham was a Gentile.




I am circumcised in my heart by the Spirit.


For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.
Romans 2:28-29



JLB

Romans 4:11 King James Version

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

To get Circumcised is an act of Faith. Abraham being the Father of Many Nations Circumcised himself, his Sons and his household. True Disciples walk in the steps of Father Abraham.

 

[Elihoenai]

Paul, and the council at Jerusalem, already established we don't need circumcision to be saved. (Acts 15)
It seems it is your doctrine has already been discredited by an apostle of our Lord.

Concerning Acts 15:

We are in full agreement with Paul, a Servant of Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ, the council at Jerusalem and with those certain mean that came down from Judea. This is a Mystery.

 

[Hopeful]

Those who are born again, baptized and have received the Holy Spirit, now have the ability to walk in the newness of life, if they walk according to the Spirit.

It is the only way they can walk.
The seed only brings forth of its own kind.

Each born again Christian must choose to walk according to the Spirit, rather than walk according to the flesh.

They have already made that choice before their rebirth.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
Galatians 5:16-17
JLB

More sin just manifests a false repentance from sin, and we can't build a relationship with God that is based on a lie.
Thanks be to God that our old vile affections and lusts were killed with the flesh at our baptism into Jesus' death.
They no longer have power in the reborn's life.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes that was Paul’s testimony, and his life reflected his commitment to take up his cross daily.
This can only be done by the Spirit.
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13
JLB

It should be the testimony of us all.

 

[Hopeful]

Concerning Acts 15:

We are in full agreement with Paul, a Servant of Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ, the council at Jerusalem and with those certain mean that came down from Judea. This is a Mystery.

There is no mystery.
James made it perfectly clear that circumcision was not a part of Gentile conversion or their hope of salvation.
Our circumcision is of the heart, when our flesh was killed at our "immersion" into Christ's death. (Rom 6:4-6, Col 2:11-13)

 

[Levind]

The point is, Christians must gather together as Jesus ask and church is one of many ways to fulfill the Jesus request. We may get lost without Church but it will not be the end of our faith. Forum like this can be considered as the way to fulfill the request.

 

[JLB]

Romans 4:11 King James Version

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

To get Circumcised is an act of Faith. Abraham being the Father of Many Nations Circumcised himself, his Sons and his household. True Disciples walk in the steps of Father Abraham.

In Abraham’s day it was an act of faith because the Lord told him to do it.



We are disciples of Jesus Christ, and have been circumcised by the Spirit, which not of man.



But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. Romans 2:29



Was any man called when he was already circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised. Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God. Each man must remain in that condition in which he was called.
1 Corinthians 7:18-20



I hope that is clear. I will say again, promoting physical circumcision is FALSE DOCTRINE.

• Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised.

Personally I am circumcised, and it means nothing. What matters is obeying the Lord.



Find another subject to talk about, because you will not be permitted to spread false doctrine about trying to convince people to openly rebel against what the scriptures say, to become physically circumcised in order to be saved.
This is blatantly false and leads people into deception.

DO NOT PROMOTE BECOMING PHYSICALLY CIRCUMCISED AGAIN IN THIS FORUM.


Here it is again, for the third time in case you missed it.

• Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised.

This is all the back and forth I will do with you on this subject.



God bless you, and may the Holy Spirit enlighten you in this matter.





JLB

 

[JLB]

The point is, Christians must gather together as Jesus ask and church is one of many ways to fulfill the Jesus request. We may get lost without Church but it will not be the end of our faith. Forum like this can be considered as the way to fulfill the request.

Welcome to the Forum brother, God bless you.




JLB

 

[JLB]

It is the only way they can walk.

Not true at all. We as Christians must actively pursue the things or righteousness and choose to put to death the things of the flesh, by the Spirit empowering us.

Paul plainly warns the Church not to walk in the flesh.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17



Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21



We all have sin issues in our lives, when we get saved, and must learn to overcome them, by the Spirit, to walk in freedom from the bondage of sin. It’s a growing process to becoming mature.


Sin or the sin nature remains in our flesh throughout our life and we must learn to be filled with the Spirit each and everyday day to be empowered by the Spirit to overcome the temptation of the lustful cravings of the flesh that desire to be gratified. We must choose to walk according to the righteous desires of the Spirit Who dwells in our inner man, rather than the sinful desires of our flesh.




JLB

 

[JLB]

They have already made that choice before their rebirth.

What choice should a person make before they are born again?