Attention Athiest and non-Christians

[Heidi]

Re: atheists

I would like to add that once you read the New Testament thoroghly, you will find out why He is Son of God and Savior of the world!

You will find the powerful testimony of Jesus in the New Testament! :angel: :angel: :angel:

It sounds to me that your perception of atheists is that we don't know anybetter and are only vaguely familiar with Christianity and other religions. I can assure you that the majority of atheists and non believers are more versed on the bible and it's teachings that those that preach the word everyday. I for one have read the bible a lot more than once and I am sure if you ask most atheists they have also. Many of the founding fathers were far more familiar with the bible and especially the N/T and that is why conciously they rejected it preferring to become Deists. Have you ever read "The Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine. It is here and pretty much reflects the thinking of non- believers and why they think the way they do.
http://www.infidels.org/library/histori ... of_reason/

Sorry but all Christians once walked in the dark and were unbelievers. No one was born with the knowledge of God. So we've been where you are and know how you think. So you are teaching us nothing new. You, however, have never received the Holy Spirit so you have no clue what it means to be on the othetr side of the fence. Only people who have been on both sides of the fence are qualified to know which one is better, friend.

 

[Novum]

rezn,

I dont have capability to research everything many people are doing about the facts of religions.

I believe Jesus and what He is claiming in the New Testament becasue I tested His teachings. More I obey more my family and my lives become better and better evey aspect of our lives. Jesus also gave us happy family we never had. This is what Jesus calls fruit.

Hello there. It sounds to me like the role of God in your life was something like this:

(1) You decide to behave in a certain way.
(2) You ask God to help you behave in that way.
(3) You behave in that way.

For myself and many other atheists, we are somehow able to get by just fine without needing step 2:

(1) I decide to behave in a certain way.
(2) I behave in that way.

In the end, I think, it gets you to the same place anyway.

 

[gingercat]

In the end, I think, it gets you to the same place anyway.

Not really!

I was miserable and I made my family miserable because I did not have meaning in my life even though I thought I did.

Now my family's lives are getting better and better to reaching out to Jesus. He is way up there and we are looking forward to getting there everyday. It is never ending. God is unlimited, you know?

Everyday is journey for the Lord and we are enjoying it! :D

 

[Novum]

In the end, I think, it gets you to the same place anyway.

Not really!

Yes really. My younger brother had drug and alcohol issues for many years while he was in high school. He's 18 now and is slowly but surely recovering - getting and staying sober.

If you asked him whether any god had something to do with his recovery, he would reply in the negative. He would tell you that it was the constant support of his family and friends, plus his own willingness to change for the better, that helped him get to where he is today.

If your god has allowed you to change for the better, then more power to you! That's a good thing! But it would be disingenuous and demonstrably untrue for you to claim that a god is somehow "required" for people to make positive (or negative) changes in their lives.

 

[gingercat]

If your god has allowed you to change for the better, then more power to you! That's a good thing! But it would be disingenuous and demonstrably untrue for you to claim that a god is somehow "required" for people to make positive (or negative) changes in their lives.

Novum, those who believe that others or themselves achieved their goal and accomplishments, they will get stuck some time sooner or later.

You never know the confidence He is giving our family, especially me because I am older. I feel confident that I can handle anything no matter what kind of situation I will be in!

 

[Novum]

Novum, those who believe that others or themselves achieved their goal and accomplishments, they will get stuck some time sooner or later.

"Get stuck?" What does that mean?

If you like, I can literally list off dozens upon dozens of high-profile atheists. You can look here or here.

Just about every one of these people has lived a successful, high-profile, fulfilled life.

You never know the confidence He is giving our family, especially me because I am older. I feel confident that I can handle anything no matter what kind of situation I will be in!

If you feel your god is the source of your confidence, again, that's just fine with me. But your claim that it is impossible to achieve greatness without appealing to a deity is just silly.

 

[gingercat]

"Get stuck?" What does that mean?

[/quote]

I understand many, many non-believers achieving high goals, but they are human standard, God's standard is not the same as human's. God's standard is based on inner hapiness and well being of ourselves and others. When we live for others nothing can stop you from loving others. That's why so many faithful Christians don't mind dying for Jesus and are dying for Jesus. Plese don't mixed up with the muslims dying for their beliefs. True Christians never harm anyone much less kill.

BTW, I don't believe Jesus appoves of His followers to join the military.
Joining the military is unbiblical IMHO.

 

[gingercat]

But your claim that it is impossible to achieve greatness without appealing to a deity is just silly.

God wants us to be humble, relying on God proves our humbleness. Please forgive me to say this but when we think we can accomplish or achieve everything without God is prideful.

BTW, thank you for your contribution to this thread! :D

 

[Heidi]

Novum, those who believe that others or themselves achieved their goal and accomplishments, they will get stuck some time sooner or later.

"Get stuck?" What does that mean?

If you like, I can literally list off dozens upon dozens of high-profile atheists. You can look here or here.

Just about every one of these people has lived a successful, high-profile, fulfilled life.

You never know the confidence He is giving our family, especially me because I am older. I feel confident that I can handle anything no matter what kind of situation I will be in!

If you feel your god is the source of your confidence, again, that's just fine with me. But your claim that it is impossible to achieve greatness without appealing to a deity is just silly.

And who decides who is good or is great? You? Sorry, but all lawbreakers claim they are innocent, and that includes those who break God's laws as well.

Jesus said; "No one is good but God alone." He is right because each of us invariably leaves out the bad things we do when we declare ourselves to be good. And that is why the human being is not qualified to judge ourselves or anyone else because we are not honest enough to do so.

Hitler was high profile too, but that didn't in the least make him good or great. Just known by a lot of people. Only God will judge who is good and who is not.

 

[Novum]

I understand many, many non-believers achieving high goals, but they are human standard, God's standard is not the same as human's.

We are mere mortals. The only standard we can realistically achieve is the standard we set for ourselves. That is not to say that we cannot aspire to - or achieve - greatness.

God's standard is based on inner hapiness and well being of ourselves and others.

You seem to believe that "inner happiness" and "well-being of ourselves and others" is not a realistic goal for non-Christians, and that is simply untrue. I myself aspire to these same goals and I shall do my utmost to reach them.

Consider the Buddhist monks out in Tibet that spend all day in deep meditation. They, too, are striving for inner happiness and well-being of themselves and others. Yet they have no god either, nor do they require one to reach their goals.

When we live for others nothing can stop you from loving others. That's why so many faithful Christians don't mind dying for Jesus and are dying for Jesus. Plese don't mixed up with the muslims dying for their beliefs. True Christians never harm anyone much less kill.

Were the thousands of Christians on the Crusades "True Christians"? How many innocents did they brutally slaughter?

BTW, I don't believe Jesus appoves of His followers to join the military.
Joining the military is unbiblical IMHO.

The Crusaders would disagree with you.

 

[Novum]

And who decides who is good or is great? You?

Not just me; humanity as a whole. The only value in this universe or this world is the value we can attach to it. We are an insignificant speck of a planet in an empty corner of the universe. That's why it's so important to make the most of your short time in the sun by living a moral, ethical, fulfilled life.

Sorry, but all lawbreakers claim they are innocent

Demonstrably, absolutely untrue. Thousands upon thousands - if not millions - of people in court plead guilty each year.

and that includes those who break God's laws as well.

Demonstrably, absolutely untrue. Perhaps you've heard this saying: "Forgive me father, for I have sinned."

Jesus said; "No one is good but God alone." He is right because each of us invariably leaves out the bad things we do when we declare ourselves to be good.

Demonstrably, absolutely untrue. See above.

And that is why the human being is not qualified to judge ourselves or anyone else because we are not honest enough to do so.

Are you suggesting we abolish all worldwide legal and judicial systems? You appear to be advocating anarchy.

Hitler was high profile too, but that didn't in the least make him good or great. Just known by a lot of people.

Hitler believed he was doing God's work.

"God gave the savior to the German people. We have faith, deep and unshakable faith, that he [Hitler] was sent to us by God to save Germany."

- Hermann Goering, Hitler's Reichsmarschall, speaking of Hitler

Only God will judge who is good and who is not.

Strange, then, that he is so utterly absent from our legal and judicial systems. ;)

 

[gingercat]

You seem to believe that "inner happiness" and "well-being of ourselves and others" is not a realistic goal for non-Christians, and that is simply untrue. I myself aspire to these same goals and I shall do my utmost to reach them.

I understand that many are super brilliant and capable. But their ability is still small and limited by God's point of view.
God is unlimited. We humans need unlimited source for achieving such high standard.

BTW we can never achieve what God set for us, but He helps us greatly. Those who achieve such a high standard will be accomplished even more with God's help.

 

[gingercat]

Were the thousands of Christians on the Crusades "True Christians"? How many innocents did they brutally slaughter?



The Crusaders would disagree with you.

I know, all Christians who are in the military disagree with me.

Jesus tells us to "love your enemy". This means we don't kill anyone just because we decide they are evil even for selfdefence!

I hope you read my thread "love your enemy" :D

 

[Novum]

I understand that many are super brilliant and capable. But their ability is still small and limited by God's point of view. God is unlimited. We humans need unlimited source for achieving such high standard.

So you claim. Why should I believe you, in the face of hundreds, if not thousands, of high-profile, successful non-theists? Furthermore:

What is "unlimited source"? I am not familiar with this term.
Why is it necessary to achieve "high standard"?

BTW we can never achieve what God set for us, but He helps us greatly. Those who achieve such a high standard will be accomplished even more with God's help.

What of those who have had their lives ruined by religion, including Christianity? I personally have met several people whose lives took immediate turns for the better upon deconverting.

 

[Novum]

I know, all Christians who are in the military disagree with me.

Jesus tells us to "love your enemy". This means we don't kill anyone just because we decide they are evil even for selfdefence!

Fair enough.

What of my other points - do you agree now that it is entirely possible, and readily achievable, to reach happiness and fulfillment without any deity?

I hope you read my thread "love your enemy" :D

I just might.

 

[reznwerks]

Re: atheists

I would like to add that once you read the New Testament thoroghly, you will find out why He is Son of God and Savior of the world!

You will find the powerful testimony of Jesus in the New Testament! :angel: :angel: :angel:

It sounds to me that your perception of atheists is that we don't know anybetter and are only vaguely familiar with Christianity and other religions. I can assure you that the majority of atheists and non believers are more versed on the bible and it's teachings that those that preach the word everyday. I for one have read the bible a lot more than once and I am sure if you ask most atheists they have also. Many of the founding fathers were far more familiar with the bible and especially the N/T and that is why conciously they rejected it preferring to become Deists. Have you ever read "The Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine. It is here and pretty much reflects the thinking of non- believers and why they think the way they do.
http://www.infidels.org/library/histori ... of_reason/

Sorry but all Christians once walked in the dark and were unbelievers. No one was born with the knowledge of God. So we've been where you are and know how you think. So you are teaching us nothing new. You, however, have never received the Holy Spirit so you have no clue what it means to be on the othetr side of the fence. Only people who have been on both sides of the fence are qualified to know which one is better, friend.

You are so close to finally getting it. You are absolutely correct in that all babies start off as unbelievers. You see those that believe now do so not because of any evidence but because they were taught those beliefs. That is why the Middle East produces Muslims with the exception of Israel that produces Jews. Those in the West were primarily populated early on by Europeans which were primarily Christiam and hence that is why the west is primarily Christian. The contention that you were once where I was is a doubt for the simple reason most children are baptized and/or christened into some form of religion. You are correct in your statement that only those who have been on both sides of the fence can offer objective opinions. I am one of them and if you ask , most atheists will tell you they were former Christians.

 

[gingercat]

What of those who have had their lives ruined by religion, including Christianity? I personally have met several people whose lives took immediate turns for the better upon deconverting.

What kind of people are you talking about?

 

[gingercat]

What of my other points - do you agree now that it is entirely possible, and readily achievable, to reach happiness and fulfillment without any deity?

I know you can achieve high goals what the world consider "success".

Human or world success is definately defferent from God's standard.

 

[Johny]

Gingercat, I suppose we should have let Hitler take over the world and our freedom. I'm sure loving him would have done a lot of good.

I agree with loving your enemies, but this doesn't apply to everyone.

 

[Henry]

Moral and ethical? Athiest say this, but what can they be talking about? If in fact we just die and that is all there is to it, then why not live as we please and die with as many things and as much power as we can.

Moral and ethics? Whos? The Christians, the Mormons, the Muslems, the Atiest? Whos do we go by, and if not one then why have any at all.

If we choose our own Moral and Ethic and there is no universality to it, what is the point?

There is none.

The very fact that we can even ask such a question is enough proof for me there is a God.