Jethro Bodine
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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baptism for salvation?
- Thread starter Mark1616
- Start date
I did not say receiving the Holy Spirit is being born again.
I said when we are born again, now we are eligible to receive the Holy Spirit.
For no one puts new wine in an old wine skin, lest it burst and be ruined.
JLB
veryberry
Member
When do we receive the holy Spirit?
Roms 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
This is not what its talking about..reference is talking about why he was going to the people he was going after and not the pharisees, scribes, and priest.
CORE
Member
I can't believe this is one of the biggest threads on the first page of "new posts"....you'd think we would've figured it out by now. The heathen must be laughing while chiding..." look as those stupid Christians, they cant even agree on who their delusional salvation comes from, lol...shouldn't it be obvious - they call themselves christians, don't they? What a bunch of morons....
This whole Idea of baptism being the means of salvation reminds me of Cameron prank calling Ed Rooney in Ferris Beuller...
If Cameron was talking to God the Father rather then Ed Rooney, I'd suspect the dialogue to go something like this:
Cameron (In Mr Peterson Voice) : " You create us with the ability to sin, then you say that the only way to salvation is though the crucifixion and death of your only Son Jesus Christ, (which you allowed, btw) and then you say that the only way to salvation is through baptism....what is the matter with you anyway?
If anybody understands what I just wrote, then congratulations - you qualify for Mensa.....jk, not really...it's not that hard.
This whole Idea of baptism being the means of salvation reminds me of Cameron prank calling Ed Rooney in Ferris Beuller...
If Cameron was talking to God the Father rather then Ed Rooney, I'd suspect the dialogue to go something like this:
Cameron (In Mr Peterson Voice) : " You create us with the ability to sin, then you say that the only way to salvation is though the crucifixion and death of your only Son Jesus Christ, (which you allowed, btw) and then you say that the only way to salvation is through baptism....what is the matter with you anyway?
If anybody understands what I just wrote, then congratulations - you qualify for Mensa.....jk, not really...it's not that hard.
Last edited by a moderator:
Jethro Bodine
Member
I know.
I messed up my post so it looks like I understood you that way. My bad.
Being born again IS being transformed by the Holy Spirit.
It's figurative.
People don't get ruined by putting the Holy Spirit in them. They get transformed.
Jesus is speaking of something else being incompatible with 'new wine'.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Jethro Bodine
Member
Replace 'baptism' with 'obedience' and you'll begin to understand what it means when the Bible talks about what we do 'saving us'.
Justification is entirely by trust in God's forgiveness through Jesus Christ. We in a sense 'save ourselves' when we respond in accordance with having been justified freely. The mistake is to make baptism, or any other expected obedience of salvation, a legalistic switch that secures justification for a person. Faith in the forgiveness of God does that all by itself.
We 'save ourselves' when we retain the faith that justifies and act in accordance with how a person justified by faith acts. Do people who have been freely justified for the asking get saved on the Day of Wrath who later showed contempt for that free justification by purposely living in disobedience? Let's ask the unmerciful servant in Matthew 18.
chessman
Member
I thought so too. One might say "veryfruity" post there by Veryberry. Simply bursting with apologetic's value.
5 go-zin-ta 10 two times and all, but new wine doesn't go-zin-ta old harden skins fur baptisimal teaching reasons, I reckon.
1 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" So they said to him, "We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." 3 And he said to them, "Into what then were you baptized?" So they said, "Into John's baptism." 4 Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus." 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.
"Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"
They had only been baptized in water, they had not been baptized in the Holy Spirit.
Receiving the Holy Spirit seemed to be the language for Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Notice what Paul said after he asked them if they had received the Holy Spirit, into what were you Baptized?
The baptism of the Holy Spirit, or receiving the Holy Spirit, came by Paul laying hands on them.
On the day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit fell upon them sovereignly, as it also happened at the house of Cornelius.
JLB
Jethro Bodine
Member
Remember what Jesus called this mighty Baptism of the Holy Spirit and Power?
4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." Acts 1:4-5
(Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out. Acts 1:18
Have you ever wondered what caused this phenomenon?
This scripture is associated with the Day of Pentecost.
This is an example of new wine being put into an old wineskin.
He was numbered with the twelve.
God The Father kept His promise to all the original twelve, and as many as would receive.
JLB
Jethro Bodine
Member
veryberry
Member
Water baptism is a picture of the death, burial, and resurrection. You have died and rose with Christ. Baptism is good to do, its just not needed for salvation.
Here is the pattern that Paul demonstrated. -
1 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" So they said to him, "We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." 3 And he said to them, "Into what then were you baptized?" So they said, "Into John's baptism." 4 Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus." 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.
- "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"
- When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
- And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.
17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues...Mark 16:16-17
Have you been Baptized in the Holy Spirit?
JLB
Jethro Bodine
Member
You need it because it's your public declaration of your decision to repent of your sins and live for God. It's a great way to jump start a new believer's witness for Christ. For me, after I did it, it seems I no longer shrunk back from opportunities to let people know that I was now living for Christ. IOW, it bolstered the boldness of my witness. Not in some dramatic, miraculous way. I just found myself wanting to openly speak about my new life in Christ when the opportunities to do so presented themselves.
I don't believe it's legalistically required to be baptized to be saved. I don't believe it's like a mark on a checklist of works that you must check off in order for you to be saved. But don't go by what I say. You must be convinced in your own mind. IMO, the only time not getting baptized can condemn a person is if the decision to not do so represents a rejection of, or a contempt for, God's forgiveness in Christ.
When I got saved I was so thrilled with my salvation that I would have jumped off a cliff if Christ asked me to. That's why it's hard for me to understand why some people don't get baptized. But I know there are reasons other than just them not appreciating God's forgiveness of their sins. I don't pass judgment on them. I just try to encourage them to do it and leave the rest up to them.
My advice to you. Get baptized in a very public declaration of your faith. Then you'll never worry about the matter ever again. And who knows what it will mean to your personal walk with Christ.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Baptisms are some of the great moments in the life of a church. I usually well up with tears at water baptisms. They remind me of how great it truly was the day I got born again, and how that person is enjoying that same thing.
Jethro Bodine
Member
There's really no reason to think Jesus was not speaking specifically of water baptism. Especially when baptism can be understood as 'repentance'. People who believe and 'repent' will be saved.
We don't have to insist every instance of 'baptism' is spiritual baptism to avoid the danger of suggesting water baptism is somehow a legalistic requirement for being saved. When we understand water baptism as representative of 'repentance'--a person's change of mind about sin, righteousness, and the judgment to come--we don't have to do that.
veryberry
Member
Water baptism is not needed for remission of sins(forgiveness of sins). That's all done through the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 1:7 - In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Col 1:14 - In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Eph 1:7 - In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Col 1:14 - In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
The bible does not teach sprinkling with water.
Baptism is completely being immersed in water.
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death... For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,
3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. Romans 6:3-7
I encourage you brother, to please consider to be Baptized in water and also seek to be Baptized in the Holy Spirit.
JLB