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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Believers stay righteous by practicing righteousness
- Thread starter Senior
- Start date
Sorry bro, reposting the same verse isn’t going to somehow override the other scriptures that John and Jesus and James and Peter and Paul wrote.
If It’s impossible for born again Christian’s to sin, then why does John instruct us what to do if we sin ?
Again, if you want to discuss righteousness or sin, then we need to reconcile other scriptures that deal with this subject.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:8-9
JLB
The Bible says that a brother who hates his brother...
The question to you, based on the Bible, the scripture I quoted, does your doctrine teach that a brother who hates his brother still has eternal life remaining in him.
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
JLB
chessman
Member
Matthew 13:17 (KJV)
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
I thought the Law didn't 'make' us righteous? But here Jesus speaks of the righteous and declares them righteous. He identifies there are righteous men/women in the Old Covenant.
Mark 2:17 (KJV)
17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
The implication being that there are righteous men and women that do not need a physician because they are not sick, they are righteous.
Luke 1:5-6 (KJV)
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Hmmmm.....am I reading this right?
John 7:24 (KJV)
24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
One cannot render righteous judgment unless they first are righteous. Can't expect unrighteous men to give righteous judgment.
And do not ignore the Eternal Perspective of God. When God contemplated His Elect in His Mind He contemplated them holy, righteous, sinless. That's the ONLY WAY God can contemplate in His Mind for there is no sin in God, there is no death in God. And once God set about to create this Elect, holy, righteous, and sinless people He has ever and always seen us as righteous. Even in TIME God has seen His Elect people as righteous yet dealing with them as sinners and sinful in TIME.
We must as true born Christians be mindful to say the SAME thing as God. To do the opposite is to oppose Him.
And Christians do not oppose their God and King.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
I thought the Law didn't 'make' us righteous? But here Jesus speaks of the righteous and declares them righteous. He identifies there are righteous men/women in the Old Covenant.
Mark 2:17 (KJV)
17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
The implication being that there are righteous men and women that do not need a physician because they are not sick, they are righteous.
Luke 1:5-6 (KJV)
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Hmmmm.....am I reading this right?
John 7:24 (KJV)
24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
One cannot render righteous judgment unless they first are righteous. Can't expect unrighteous men to give righteous judgment.
And do not ignore the Eternal Perspective of God. When God contemplated His Elect in His Mind He contemplated them holy, righteous, sinless. That's the ONLY WAY God can contemplate in His Mind for there is no sin in God, there is no death in God. And once God set about to create this Elect, holy, righteous, and sinless people He has ever and always seen us as righteous. Even in TIME God has seen His Elect people as righteous yet dealing with them as sinners and sinful in TIME.
We must as true born Christians be mindful to say the SAME thing as God. To do the opposite is to oppose Him.
And Christians do not oppose their God and King.
Yes. I said it because you seem to be stuck on a scripture that needs to be seen in the light of all that John taught about this.
I shared with you my perspective of the different facets of what John was saying in your scripture, which can be reconciled with other scriptures that he taught about this same subject.
You simple came back with the same scripture on the same version.
By the way what version of scripture is that?
JLB
So let’s break down what John is saying so we can possibly come to some type of mutual understanding.
Is sin working in a born again persons flesh, desiring to manifest itself?
JLB
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
Whoever refers to a brother.
We know this because the verse goes on to
“his brother”.
To think John is not talking about two brothers is to change what John is plainly saying.
JLB
Who said anything about “override”? Except you.
The verse actually saying not “doing” sin. Which carries a meaning of manufacturing/creating sin.
Then don’t say we have no sin.
Actually it say “whoever”. You changed it.
SeeI underlined it.
The question remains.
Do you (based on your doctrine) believe a brother who hates his brother has eternal life remaining in him?
JLB
Here are who are righteous -
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7
JLB
Here are who are the righteous:
John 3:5-12 (KJV)
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. [Take Note: I'll come back to this at the bottom]
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
John the Baptist echoes the same thing of verse 12:
John 3:27 (KJV)
27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
Are we as born-again believers in Covenant with God righteous, or do we have to practice and WORK our righteousness?
The kingdom of God is not a place or location, but a Person. Christ is the kingdom of God.
When you think of a kingdom you think of a king, subjects, a court, a castle, a location, all the typical furnishings of an earthly kingdom - even a heavenly one.
Matthew 12:28 (KJV)
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Question: What is Christ doing?
Answer: Casting out devils.
Jesus Christ is in effect saying HE IS the kingdom of God.
So what is [the] kingdom of God?
Paul and the Holy Spirit answer that for you:
Romans 14:17 (KJV)
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
If Christ says He is the kingdom of God, and a believer is born-again, then now the Holy Spirit resides/dwells in that believer then that believer is RIGHTEOUS due to the Presence of Christ in that individual. He/she is also at peace with God as opposed to the non-elect, non-Covenant, world who hate God and are in a state of hostility toward the Lord and King. We also are in joy. IF we are atoned, and we are, then we are righteous do to the atonement. IF we are not atoned, then the Holy Spirit could not reside/dwell within us and we are still in sin and unrighteous before God.
Do you also notice the Trinity in the above verse in Romans?
righteousness = the Father
peace = the Prince of Peace, the Son
joy = the Holy Spirit.
So Senior and all who hold to the argument he presents on post on this question that we must perform works so that we may continue to be righteous are in error and need to correct their doctrine and belief-system so that it reflects the truth of the Word of God.
The kingdom of God is Christ in us and we are righteous because He is righteous.
A man or woman can receive nothing except it be given them from heaven.
Have you received?
Jesus Christ is our salvation.
Jesus Christ isn’t lost, we are the ones who can wander away from Him and become lost.
If a person becomes lost, they must repent, in order to become reconciled with God again.
Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20
JLB
Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29
- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life
- those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” Luke 8:21
JLB
Whenever you choose to answer my question then I will be glad to answer yours. If you don’t believe verse 15 is referring to two brothers then please explain why.
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
The question remains.
Do you (based on your doctrine) believe a brother who hates his brother has eternal life remaining in him?
In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.
Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:10-15
JLB
Senior
Member
MO, “the crown of righteousness” is eternal life,
and so is “the crown of life” (easily proven).
“I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, and I have remained faithful.
And now the prize awaits me – the crown of righteousness, which the Lord,
the righteous Judge, will give me on the day of his return. And the prize is not just for me,
but for all who eagerly look forward to his appearing.” (2 Timothy 4:7-8)
Those who eagerly wait for Jesus’ return have nothing to be ashamed of
… because they have remained faithful and have been living righteously!
Please note that Ephesians and Colossians were written only to “the faithful”.
So really, all of the glowing descriptions, etc. of believers in those 2 epistles
are only for "the faithful" followers of Jesus, i.e. those who love Him and
who obey (keep) His commandments.
and so is “the crown of life” (easily proven).
“I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, and I have remained faithful.
And now the prize awaits me – the crown of righteousness, which the Lord,
the righteous Judge, will give me on the day of his return. And the prize is not just for me,
but for all who eagerly look forward to his appearing.” (2 Timothy 4:7-8)
Those who eagerly wait for Jesus’ return have nothing to be ashamed of
… because they have remained faithful and have been living righteously!
Please note that Ephesians and Colossians were written only to “the faithful”.
So really, all of the glowing descriptions, etc. of believers in those 2 epistles
are only for "the faithful" followers of Jesus, i.e. those who love Him and
who obey (keep) His commandments.
chessman
Member
See post #41. I already answered.
I did. It’s referring to the same example of Cain and “his brother” (Abel) in the previous verses:
For this is the message that you have heard from the beginning: that we should love one another, not as Cain, who was of the evil one and violently murdered his brother. And for what reason did he violently murder him? Because his deeds were evil and the deeds of his brother were righteous.
1 John 3:11-12 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 John 3:11-12&version=LEBIt’s answered in post #41, first sentence.