Body, Soul, and Spirit

[Deborah13]

Deb I think the passage infers the trees are on both sides of the river but doesn't say the number. ( if they are literal trees ) I'm guessing the nations need healing in the sense that access to the Trees imparts whatever is necessary to keep living in the same way Adam and Eve would have kept living if they had access to it.

Does the Bible ever say that they needed to actually eat from the Tree of Life before they sinned?
I mean...
Was it the physical tree that gave them life and kept them living before they sinned?

 

[agua.]

Does the Bible ever say that they needed to actually eat from the Tree of Life before they sinned?
I mean...
Was it the physical tree that gave them life and kept them living before they sinned?

The Bible doesn't say they ate of any tree aside from the forbidden one. Every tree was given for food aside from one so we can assume they did eat from it. imo Also if we accept CI it shows why they needed to eat from the ToL and also why it/they will return in the new world and be accessible.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

I don't think it is even conceivable that they ever ate from the Tree of Life. and Yhwh set the angels in place to prevent them from doing so, and said i think "lest they should live forever".
perhaps, the Tree of Life also is like Jesus - whoever has the Son has Life; whoever has not the Son , has not Life; .....
there's not a "have the Son today" "don't have the Son today" variability indicated anywhere. (the wishy-washy, fearful, lukewarm, just don't make it.) .

Genesis 3:22-24
Expanded Bible (EXB)

22 Then the Lord God said, “Humans have become like one of us [C referring to the supernatural heavenly beings, God and the angels]; they know good and evil. We must keep them from [L putting forth their hand and taking and] eating some of the fruit from the tree of life, or they will live forever.” 23 So the Lord God ·forced [expelled] Adam out of the garden of Eden to ·work [till; or care for; 2:5] the ground from which he was taken. 24 After God ·forced [drove] humans out of the garden, he placed ·angels [L cherubim; C particularly powerful spiritual beings] and a sword of fire that flashed around in every direction on its eastern border. ·This kept people from getting […to guard the way] to the tree of life.


John 6:35-58
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

35 Yeshua answered, “I am the bread which is life! Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever trusts in me will never be thirsty.

(I can't tell for sure if He means because food and water is always provided and partaken, or if it's not needed there-after) (like when He said"I have food to eat you know not of..." and it was simply "doing the Father's will" , so He wasn't hungry as His disciples expected He would be).

 

[Butch5]

Why is there three trees? Why do the nations need healing?

YLT
Rev 22:2 in the midst of its broad place, and of the river on this side and on that, is a tree of life, yielding twelve fruits, in each several month rendering its fruits, and the leaves of the tree are for the service [healing] of the nations; [healing] from KJV added by me

Hi Deb,

It is as Agua said that the trees are on both sides of the river. Ezekiel gives more details about this.

NKJ Ezekiel 47:1 Then he brought me back to the door of the temple; and there was water, flowing from under the threshold of the temple toward the east, for the front of the temple faced east; the water was flowing from under the right side of the temple, south of the altar.
2 He brought me out by way of the north gate, and led me around on the outside to the outer gateway that faces east; and there was water, running out on the right side.
3 And when the man went out to the east with the line in his hand, he measured one thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the water came up to my ankles.
4 Again he measured one thousand and brought me through the waters; the water came up to my knees. Again he measured one thousand and brought me through; the water came up to my waist.
5 Again he measured one thousand, and it was a river that I could not cross; for the water was too deep, water in which one must swim, a river that could not be crossed.
6 He said to me, "Son of man, have you seen this?" Then he brought me and returned me to the bank of the river.
7 When I returned, there, along the bank of the river, were very many trees on one side and the other.
8 Then he said to me: "This water flows toward the eastern region, goes down into the valley, and enters the sea. When it reaches the sea, its waters are healed.
9 "And it shall be that every living thing that moves, wherever the rivers go, will live. There will be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters go there; for they will be healed, and everything will live wherever the river goes.
10 "It shall be that fishermen will stand by it from En Gedi to En Eglaim; they will be places for spreading their nets. Their fish will be of the same kinds as the fish of the Great Sea, exceedingly many.
11 "But its swamps and marshes will not be healed; they will be given over to salt.
12 "Along the bank of the river, on this side and that, will grow all kinds of trees used for food; their leaves will not wither, and their fruit will not fail. They will bear fruit every month, because their water flows from the sanctuary. Their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for medicine." (Eze 47:1-12 NKJ)

 

[Butch5]

I've stated that man is a physical being, however, many believe that man is a spirit that lives in a body and that spirit continues on after the body dies. We have statement from Jesus that creates some problems for this idea.

36 Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, "Peace to you."
37 But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit.
38 And He said to them, "Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts?
39 "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have."
40 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet1.
(Luk 24:36-40 NKJ)

Jesus said a spirit does not have flesh and bones. Man has flesh and bones, this seems to flatly contradict the idea that man is a spirit in a flesh body.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

Does the Bible ever say that they needed to actually eat from the Tree of Life before they sinned?
I mean...
Was it the physical tree that gave them life and kept them living before they sinned?

to quote Reba "DUH" ..... I didn't even notice the last question until now ----
it is written that
Genesis 2:7
7 Then the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath or spirit of life, and man became a living being.

elsewhere it is written that Yeshua holds all things together, which includes of course all life, Himself;
and without Him nothing at all anywhere was made that was made.

so the ongoing continuing Life of God in Yeshua is needed today for anyone to remain in existence, let alone to have LIFE.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

I've stated that man is a physical being, however, many believe that man is a spirit that lives in a body and that spirit continues on after the body dies. We have statement from Jesus that creates some problems for this idea.

36 Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, "Peace to you."
37 But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit.
38 And He said to them, "Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts?
39 "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have."
40 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet1.
(Luk 24:36-40 NKJ)

Jesus said a spirit does not have flesh and bones. Man has flesh and bones, this seems to flatly contradict the idea that man is a spirit in a flesh body.

you just told on yourself so to speak. Jesus showed them His hands and His feet, to Handle and to See, so they would not be afraid as if He was a spirit as indicated in verse 37 where it says "....they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit."

Jesus is Spirit. Yhwh created a (physical) body for Him. Jesus is still Spirit. Yhwh is Spirit. slowly , slowly...... progress might be made......

 

[Butch5]

you just told on yourself so to speak. Jesus showed them His hands and His feet, to Handle and to See, so they would not be afraid as if He was a spirit as indicated in verse 37 where it says "....they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit."

Jesus is Spirit. Yhwh created a (physical) body for Him. Jesus is still Spirit. Yhwh is Spirit. slowly , slowly...... progress might be made......

Jesus came in the flesh, the Word became flesh.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

'flesh' is what a physical body is. Yes. He humbled Himself to be made human, so He could fulfill His Father's Word.
No one can take away His Spirit, however. He humbled Himself to have a human body for the rest of time , or eternity, or as long as anything exists, Yhwh's Plan.

 

[Butch5]

'flesh' is what a physical body is. Yes. He humbled Himself to be made human, so He could fulfill His Father's Word.
No one can take away His Spirit, however. He humbled Himself to have a human body for the rest of time , or eternity, or as long as anything exists, Yhwh's Plan.

Agreed, and He said, a spirit doesn't have flesh and bone as you see I have. If a spirit doesn't have flesh and bone and Jesus had flesh and bone how can He be a spirit?

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

Agreed, and He said, a spirit doesn't have flesh and bone as you see I have. If a spirit doesn't have flesh and bone and Jesus had flesh and bone how can He be a spirit?

Good question. I'll let you think about it until tomorrow. The answer is so simple, you'll either be astonished or deny it.

 

[Deborah13]

Butch5

Hi Butch,
I have two questions. What do you think this scripture means......

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: ........
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

No other creature is said to be created in the image of God. If all animals are said to be living souls how is man different?

 

[Butch5]

Butch5

Hi Butch,
I have two questions. What do you think this scripture means......

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: ........
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

No other creature is said to be created in the image of God. If all animals are said to be living souls how is man different?

Hi Deb,

This is typically understood to mean a body, soul, and spirit. I'm not sure if that is correct since God didn't have a body a this point. At least not a body as we know it. I suspect it has something to do with the ability to reason or having the ability of higher thought. Man has the ability to reason as God does, yet, I don't think animals do. I mean they may have some basic reasoning ability but I don't think it's very high.

 

[agua.]

Hi Deb,

This is typically understood to mean a body, soul, and spirit. I'm not sure if that is correct since God didn't have a body a this point. At least not a body as we know it. I suspect it has something to do with the ability to reason or having the ability of higher thought. Man has the ability to reason as God does, yet, I don't think animals do. I mean they may have some basic reasoning ability but I don't think it's very high.

I like this explanation. I think there must be some reason for our "shape" too imo.

 

[Edward]

Agreed, and He said, a spirit doesn't have flesh and bone as you see I have. If a spirit doesn't have flesh and bone and Jesus had flesh and bone how can He be a spirit?

Brother I think you may be over-thinking this. Our body is a temporary dwelling for our spirit and we are restriced (for the most part) to this 3 dimensional world. In order for Jesus to be able to be crucified and give His life that we may live, He had to lower Himself to our realm of existence.

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water./

Where was Jesus for the three days between his crucifixion and when He raised from the dead? Here you go. He went and preached to the spirits in prison, that is to say, where peoples spirits go after they die but before they are raised at the resurrection.

 

[Deborah13]

Hi Deb,

This is typically understood to mean a body, soul, and spirit. I'm not sure if that is correct since God didn't have a body a this point. At least not a body as we know it. I suspect it has something to do with the ability to reason or having the ability of higher thought. Man has the ability to reason as God does, yet, I don't think animals do. I mean they may have some basic reasoning ability but I don't think it's very high.

I agree with you, we are capable of reasoning more than the animals. But I also think it has to do with our ability to have a relationship with God, for the Holy Spirit to be able to teach, impress, etc..

 

[Edward]

I agree with you, we are capable of reasoning more than the animals. But I also think it has to do with our ability to have a relationship with God, for the Holy Spirit to be able to teach, impress, etc..

Bravo, sister!

We've been given these things. For the Holy Spirit to be able to teach and impress...we need but to receive it. We are the ones which inhibit the Holy Spirit from doing His work through us. trying to reason things out. There is a way that seems right unto man, but in the end leads to death. Before man started thinking for himself (eating of the tree), we functioned as spiritual beings. People do not try to live for the Spirit, they don't know how, having been indoctrinated to think for themselves. It's kindergarten again and unless we become as little children and learn how to live for the spirit, we will not make it. It's hard to set reason down and to not lean upon our own understanding. We've all been lied to about how to live. Which it exactly what scripture says...the enemies biggest tool is deception.

 

[agua.]

Bravo, sister!

We've been given these things. For the Holy Spirit to be able to teach and impress...we need but to receive it. We are the ones which inhibit the Holy Spirit from doing His work through us. trying to reason things out. There is a way that seems right unto man, but in the end leads to death. Before man started thinking for himself (eating of the tree), we functioned as spiritual beings. People do not try to live for the Spirit, they don't know how, having been indoctrinated to think for themselves. It's kindergarten again and unless we become as little children and learn how to live for the spirit, we will not make it. It's hard to set reason down and to not lean upon our own understanding. We've all been lied to about how to live. Which it exactly what scripture says...the enemies biggest tool is deception.

Before man started thinking for himself (eating of the tree), we functioned as spiritual beings.

What does this mean ?

 

[Edward]

What does this mean ?

Good question. We thought differently I think. Not with our head, with our...heart?

Spiritual being are like aliens almost. We know very little if anything about how they function and so forth. but at our core, we are spiritual beings also. We were created in the image of God. He is a Spiritual being. We had daily fellowship with Him. When we started thinking for ourselves, we began using our head instead of...heart, and the first thing we did was to become self conscious and want to make clothes for ourselves. Total distraction from God. We wanted to hide instead of have fellowship. We lost a lot in the fall. We don't think the same anymore. Which is why we have to (become as little children and) live for the spirit. Re-learn how to live, not leaning upon our understanding, but living for the spirit. Totally different than what we are used to.

 

[agua.]

Good question. We thought differently I think. Not with our head, with our...heart?

Spiritual being are like aliens almost. We know very little if anything about how they function and so forth. but at our core, we are spiritual beings also. We were created in the image of God. He is a Spiritual being. We had daily fellowship with Him. When we started thinking for ourselves, we began using our head instead of...heart, and the first thing we did was to become self conscious and want to make clothes for ourselves. Total distraction from God. We wanted to hide instead of have fellowship. We lost a lot in the fall. We don't think the same anymore. Which is why we have to (become as little children and) live for the spirit. Re-learn how to live, not leaning upon our understanding, but living for the spirit. Totally different than what we are used to.

Adam and Eve both sinned while they were these spiritual beings as you suggest.