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Body, Soul, and Spirit

agua. said:
Adam and Eve both sinned while they were these spiritual beings as you suggest.
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Sure they did. Even Satan sinned in Heaven and thought to exalt himself above God. Apparently being a spiritual being does not preclude sin, they just function differently and on a higher level than us earth bound folks. But they can speak differently (telepathically perhaps), think differently, and we don't know what all else is different. They can eat, but we don't know if it is necessary or a choice. They can fly, they are hyper-dimensional. Their entire makeup is different, and we have no clue, we lost it.

But if scripture tells us to not lean upon our understanding...then, wouldn't that suggest that they may/could think differently than we do? And if we use our brains to reason, and it wasn't so before...then what? How? Our center of being seems to be our head now...but was it always?
 
If they sinned while in this spiritual state as you suggest then what's different to us now ? Adam and Eve leaned on their own understanding which lead to the first sin. Not leaning on your own understanding basically means do what your told. ie. Do what Yahweh says.
 
agua. said:
If they sinned while in this spiritual state as you suggest then what's different to us now ? Adam and Eve leaned on their own understanding which lead to the first sin. Not leaning on your own understanding basically means do what your told. ie. Do what Yahweh says.
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Different from before they sinned or different to us now, present day? I don't know brother. What all do you think we lost in the fall? Do you think we used to use our head to think before the fall?

They were tempted and lied to. They obviously had free will. They disobeyed God.

We sure don't fellowship with God anymore they way we used to daily. It says we died in the fall. What does that mean? They didn't die physically. So what died?
 
They had the same choice we have today.

Pro 3:5-7 NIV Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; (6) in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight. (7) Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD and shun evil.


They did physically die because they sinned

Gen 2:16-17 KJV And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: (17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

יום
yôm
yome
From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term),

and so do we

Rom 6:23 KJV For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
agua. said:
They had the same choice we have today.

Pro 3:5-7 NIV Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; (6) in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight. (7) Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD and shun evil.


They did physically die because they sinned

Gen 2:16-17 KJV And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: (17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

יום
yôm
yome
From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term),

and so do we

Rom 6:23 KJV For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
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I'm not sure I understand brother. Adam lived to be over 900 years old.
 
Yom can mean an age/season or an unspecified time period.

Gen 18:11 KJV Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age ( yom ); and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.

Gen 47:28 KJV And Jacob lived in the land of Egypt seventeen years: so the whole age ( yom ) of Jacob was an hundred forty and seven years.

Gen 40:4 KJV And the captain of the guard charged Joseph with them, and he served them: and they continued a season ( yom ) in ward.


In the time after Adam and Eve sinned they died and so do we.
 
agua. said:
Yom can mean an age/season or an unspecified time period.

Gen 18:11 KJV Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age ( yom ); and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.

Gen 47:28 KJV And Jacob lived in the land of Egypt seventeen years: so the whole age ( yom ) of Jacob was an hundred forty and seven years.

Gen 40:4 KJV And the captain of the guard charged Joseph with them, and he served them: and they continued a season ( yom ) in ward.


In the time after Adam and Eve sinned they died and so do we.
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Oh ok. Do you think we were immortal before the fall?
 
Nope. We needed to eat from the ToL to stay alive. Why else would it be there for food ?
 
agua. said:
Nope. We needed to eat from the ToL to stay alive. Why else would it be there for food ?
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Did we eat from the tree of life? I'd always assumed that we hadn't yet because it says that we would live forever so I took it as if one bite would give this to one. Do you have any scriptures which says we ate from the tree of life?

What all do you think we lost in the fall? Do you think there were unwritten things which we lost also?

I think there was and it is much deeper than we realize. JMO.
 
Edward said:
Brother I think you may be over-thinking this. Our body is a temporary dwelling for our spirit and we are restriced (for the most part) to this 3 dimensional world. In order for Jesus to be able to be crucified and give His life that we may live, He had to lower Himself to our realm of existence.

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water./

Where was Jesus for the three days between his crucifixion and when He raised from the dead? Here you go. He went and preached to the spirits in prison, that is to say, where peoples spirits go after they die but before they are raised at the resurrection.
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Hi Edward,

Actually, if you look closely at the passage it says he made the proclamation after His resurrection. I believe He was in the grave those three days. It is my contention that the body is "NOT" temporary, it is who we are. Gen 2:7 says that God created man out of the dust of the earth. God said to Adam, 'for dust you are and to dust you shall return'. God said Adam was dust not a spirit.
 
Deborah13 said:
I agree with you, we are capable of reasoning more than the animals. But I also think it has to do with our ability to have a relationship with God, for the Holy Spirit to be able to teach, impress, etc..
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That's very possible. I think there are several aspects to that statement.
 
Edward said:
Did we eat from the tree of life? I'd always assumed that we hadn't yet because it says that we would live forever so I took it as if one bite would give this to one. Do you have any scriptures which says we ate from the tree of life?

What all do you think we lost in the fall? Do you think there were unwritten things which we lost also?

I think there was and it is much deeper than we realize. JMO.
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We aren't told they ate from any tree aside from the forbidden one. In the New World the ToL (s) will return for "healing" do you think we won't eat from them then?

We lost access to the ToL when Adam and Eve sinned and therefor lost "healing" and died.

I think you're complicating this to suit a doctrine.
 
Butch5 said:
Hi Edward,

Actually, if you look closely at the passage it says he made the proclamation after His resurrection. I believe He was in the grave those three days. It is my contention that the body is "NOT" temporary, it is who we are. Gen 2:7 says that God created man out of the dust of the earth. God said to Adam, 'for dust you are and to dust you shall return'. God said Adam was dust not a spirit.
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Forgive me brother, but I just read the entire chapter again to find this...and am unable to find where it says that He did that after the resurrection. Could you point it out to me?
 
Edward said:
Forgive me brother, but I just read the entire chapter again to find this...and am unable to find where it says that He did that after the resurrection. Could you point it out to me?
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I don't agree with butch on this one but can you point out where it says Jesus did this while in the grave ?
 
Edward said:
Sure they did. Even Satan sinned in Heaven and thought to exalt himself above God. Apparently being a spiritual being does not preclude sin, they just function differently and on a higher level than us earth bound folks. But they can speak differently (telepathically perhaps), think differently, and we don't know what all else is different. They can eat, but we don't know if it is necessary or a choice. They can fly, they are hyper-dimensional. Their entire makeup is different, and we have no clue, we lost it.

But if scripture tells us to not lean upon our understanding...then, wouldn't that suggest that they may/could think differently than we do? And if we use our brains to reason, and it wasn't so before...then what? How? Our center of being seems to be our head now...but was it always?
Click to expand...

I have a question, If man changes in the fall and lost the ability to reason properly why didn't Satan and the demons also lose it since they are spiritual beings?
 
agua. said:
We aren't told they ate from any tree aside from the forbidden one. In the New World the ToL (s) will return for "healing" do you think we won't eat from them then?

We lost access to the ToL when Adam and Eve sinned and therefor lost "healing" and died.

I think you're complicating this to suit a doctrine.
Click to expand...

I don't mean to be complicating it brother. I'm just trying to see your view and perhaps even learn something new. I do have what I feel to be a fair understanding of the situation and what was going on, but I do not have all the answers by any means. I am also trying to piece it all together like everyone else, and am certainly not against learning a new thing or correcting myself if I am thinking wrongly about any part of it. To that end, yes sir brother, I may ask some questions, lol.

Yes, I do think that we will eat freely from the ToL in the new world. (I don't think we'll need any healing in the new world). I just assumed that we never did eat from the ToL yet and asked if you had any other scriptures to support what you said. :)
 
Edward said:
I don't mean to be complicating it brother. I'm just trying to see your view and perhaps even learn something new. I do have what I feel to be a fair understanding of the situation and what was going on, but I do not have all the answers by any means. I am also trying to piece it all together like everyone else, and am certainly not against learning a new thing or correcting myself if I am thinking wrongly about any part of it. To that end, yes sir brother, I may ask some questions, lol.

Yes, I do think that we will eat freely from the ToL in the new world. (I don't think we'll need any healing in the new world). I just assumed that we never did eat from the ToL yet and asked if you had any other scriptures to support what you said. :)
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To me it's very simple that eating from the ToL sustained Adam and Eve because it was the denial of access to this tree that caused them to die.

The ToL in the New world is said to be for "healing" whatever that may imply.
 
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