Hey
JohnDB
It was good talking on the phone with you, it really cleared your position up for me. Filled in some clarifying questions that left some gaps. Thanks. If I could, I'd like to give a summary, just to make sure I've got it and throw a few things of my own into it.
Nicodemus came at night, which was social hour for the Jews because I'm sure many of them worked during the day due to no street lights, flashlights etc. He came seeking friendship with Jesus because he knew Jesus was from God.
Pause for my thoughts. Please know I'm staking no claim to proper exegesis here.. just random thoughts. How did Nicodemus know Jesus was from God? Why did Nicodemus stand up for Jesus (John 7:50) and why did Nicodemus help bury Jesus (John 19:39). Surely Nicodemus became a disciple of Jesus.
Regardless, lets start with the verse at hand.
John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
Is it possible that God had made Jesus known to Nicodemus just like it was made known to Peter that Jesus was the Christ?
Matthew 16:16-17 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
So, Nicodemus comes to Jesus to befriend him understanding that Jesus is a prophet of God. As you stated, those foretold in the Bible held special ranking and the examples you gave were Moses. Moses was foretold to Abraham (Genesis 15), and Samson (Judges 13:5) etc. Basically, anyone who was foretold in scripture was elevated to "Born from above". This is especially true about Jesus as Moses wrote of him in Deuteronomy 18:18 because all of the signs that the Christ was coming soon, but there isn't time to get into all of that now.
There was an event with Abraham and God in Genesis 18 which is Jewish belief that figures that event is where God calls Abraham Friend. You parallel this event with Abraham and God but the seats are switched. Nicodemus takes the role of Abraham and Jesus takes the role of God because Nicodemus seeks friendship with Jesus.
Because you use "Born from above" to mean ones prophesied, John is left empty handed because those who are born from above, those who were prophesied, called, predestine for a specific purpose were great men of God. Certainly, Nicodemus was not in such a class so his response is normal. How can I be born above since I and most are not prophesied in scripture? (or are we?). How can we crawl back into our mothers womb for a second shot at being "chosen".
So far so good? Am I tracking you right?
Now the fun part... born of water and spirit.
You say that water is a type for chaos. I see this in Genesis 1 where God is hovering over the waters, and he speaks. When he speaks, order takes the place of chaos. Living waters are for purification and this is where I see baptism coming into play. Not the baptism modern day arguments are surrounded by, but the Jewish idea of baptism on many different levels. First, the laws of cleanliness. A woman who is on her monthly cycle has to sit in the baptismal pool, and also after birth. A man who touches a dead body must also go to the baptismal waters. Utensils used for food preparation and yes, even the priest before serving. But this "baptism" isn't just for cleanliness because whatever goes in the baptismal pool must already be physically clean. It's more than a bathtub. It's more like your grandma who washed the dishes with soap and water before putting them into the dishwasher lol!
Baptism has a very spiritual side to it. As you alluded to earlier, "living waters" are what cleanses (spiritually) and those waters run into the sea... all that sin washed into the sea... and we see Jesus walking on the Sea of Galilee. Jesus is bringing order to the chaos. How does chaos turn into order? By law. In Genesis 1, there is chaos until God speaks, and the earth obey's in the same way Jesus calms the sea with his word. Order from chaos, it's a biblical theme. Thus, you say that water is a type of law, and maybe you could touch on this a bit more and clear it up for us because I've got a short memory.
Anyway, If I remember right, you're saying that water and spirit connects with Nicodemus because water is the "word"... Ok, give it to me one more time
