Born Again?

[JohnDB]

StoveBolts

 

[JLB]

Not what I quoted and you are dodging the point.

What point am I dodging John?


I’m simply discussing what the scriptures say.


You seem to have a point about born again, but I don’t know what your point is.



I asked you how a person is born of the scriptures?


You have yet to answer.




JLB

 

[JLB]

In fact you are dodging the whole discussion...

I’m discussing being born again.


Nicodemus asked how can a man be born again, ie by going back into his mother’s womb?


He sure must have thought Jesus said born again.


Or else why would he ask about going back into his mother’s womb?



Maybe you could share with us why Nicodemus asked about going back into his mother’s womb if Jesus didn’t say you must be born again, as you claim?




JLB

 

[stovebolts]

JohnDB

 

[JohnDB]

What point am I dodging John?


I’m simply discussing what the scriptures say.


You seem to have a point about born again, but I don’t know what your point is.



I asked you how a person is born of the scriptures?


You have yet to answer.




JLB

We have repeated ourselves several times...you have ignored every post from several people. Nothing left to say.

 

[JLB]

We have repeated ourselves several times...you have ignored every post from several people. Nothing left to say.

John, that’s not true.


I haven’t ignored every post from several people.




Maybe you could share with us why Nicodemus asked about going back into his mother’s womb if Jesus didn’t say you must be born again, as you claim?




If you don’t want to answer then that’s ok too.




JLB

 

[JohnDB]

John, that’s not true.


I haven’t ignored every post from several people.




Maybe you could share with us why Nicodemus asked about going back into his mother’s womb if Jesus didn’t say you must be born again, as you claim?




If you don’t want to answer then that’s ok too.




JLB

I have answered you several times, others have too. You have ignored all replies.

 

[JLB]

I have answered you several times, others have too. You have ignored all replies.

Brother please stop saying this nonsense.


If you can’t answer a simple question about Kesis teaching us we must be born again, then do be it.


I understand.


You don’t have to make up things that are not true about me.


I personally believe Jesus did in fact tell Nicodemus that a person must be born again.


The reason is because Nicodemus asked if a man can go back into his mothers womb.


Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” John 3:4


Why would Nicodemus ask if a man can enter a second time into his mother’s womb if Jesus said you must be born from above?


If you don’t agree.


That’s your choice, brother.


I hope at least you can see why I believe Jesus said born again.



JLB

 

[JohnDB]

Brother please stop saying this nonsense.


If you can’t answer a simple question about Kesis teaching us we must be born again, then do be it.


I understand.


You don’t have to make up things that are not true about me.


I personally believe Jesus did in fact tell Nicodemus that a person must be born again.


The reason is because Nicodemus asked if a man can go back into his mothers womb.


Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” John 3:4


Why would Nicodemus ask if a man can enter a second time into his mother’s womb if Jesus said you must be born from above?


If you don’t agree.


That’s your choice, brother.


I hope at least you can see why I believe Jesus said born again.



JLB

 

[stovebolts]

JLB
We understand exactly what you are saying. You have made yourself abundantly clear. Furthermore, you have left absolutely no doubt of what your believe is on these passages.

If you read post 168, JohnDB explains his understanding of born again, which he is arguing does not mean born again, but rather it means born from above.

There is a radical difference between born again and born from above which is John's point, which you have not addressed.

Please go back to post 168 and start reading from where John says,

Jesus said, "No one can see the Kingdom of God unless he is a Bene Elohim/Born Anew/Born as a messenger with a task to benefit ALL OF ISRAEL...like Moses, Isaac, or Sampson. Nor could they recognize the King.

John has answered your questions in that section.

 

[JohnDB]

Brother please stop saying this nonsense.


If you can’t answer a simple question about Kesis teaching us we must be born again, then do be it.


I understand.


You don’t have to make up things that are not true about me.


I personally believe Jesus did in fact tell Nicodemus that a person must be born again.


The reason is because Nicodemus asked if a man can go back into his mothers womb.


Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” John 3:4


Why would Nicodemus ask if a man can enter a second time into his mother’s womb if Jesus said you must be born from above?


If you don’t agree.


That’s your choice, brother.


I hope at least you can see why I believe Jesus said born again.



JLB

Fran got it, Dianne got it, Jeff got it, Ezra got it,...all agreed or disagreed with little reasoning.
But for whatever reason you're the only one who has not understood and claimed I haven't answered you and am making false claims.

When you are odd man out in understanding maybe it's time to review something...

 

[ezra]

i dont agree with due to the fact .not so sure your sources can be trusted.. i have access to many commentaries .they all use born again.. besides that not worth arguing 10 pages

 

[JohnDB]

i dont agree with due to the fact .not so sure your sources can be trusted.. i have access to many commentaries .they all use born again.. besides that not worth arguing 10 pages

And it's a respectable position to hold.
Not going to argue to try to change your mind...not really interested in doing so.
I wished to explain the what and why of a footnote and believe that its more logical.

But to claim that no one has said anything or answered questions while preaching their own theology...that's been the problem the whole time.

 

[JLB]

There is a radical difference between born again and born from above which is John's point, which you have not addressed.

Tell why this statement doesn’t qualify as me addressing the difference between Jesus saying born again and born from above, which s John’s point?

I personally believe Jesus did in fact tell Nicodemus that a person must be born again.


The reason is because Nicodemus asked if a man can go back into his mothers womb.


Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” John 3:4


Why would Nicodemus ask if a man can enter a second time into his mother’s womb if Jesus said you must be born from above?

JLB

 

[JLB]

Fran got it, Dianne got it, Jeff got it, Ezra got it,...all agreed or disagreed with little reasoning.

Got what?

But for whatever reason you're the only one who has not understood and claimed I haven't answered you and am making false claims.

You haven’t answered my questions as everyone can plainly see.


Question: how is a person born by the law of the Torah?


Question: Why would Nicodemus ask if a man can enter a second time into his mother’s womb if Jesus said you must be born from above?


If you don’t want to answer these questions then so be it.




JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Brother, I’m simply saying what happens in the natural birth process.



Jesus was born in a manger.


No midwife.

No rituals.


He came into this world by both the water He was carried in, while in His mother’s womb, as well as the blood from Mary’s hymen.



Very simple.

Very extraordinary.

Very true.



This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood...




JLB

1 John 5:6 is our assurance of salvation as Jesus came into the world by water and blood from Mary's womb as Isaiah prophesied this is how Immanuel (God with us) would come into the world, Isaiah 7:14, and God declared Him, John 1:18.

It is by the word of God given to Jesus what to speak, John 12:49, 50, who taught that one needs to be born again/born from above by receiving the word of God (living water) and of the Spirit that is God that indwells all who will believe.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Everything comes by the word of God and by His Spirit as there are three that bear witness being the Father, the Word (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit and these three are one, 1 John 5:7. Literal water is not part of God's salvation as all comes from above.

 

[JLB]

If you read post 168, @JohnDB explains his understanding of born again, which he is arguing does not mean born again, but rather it means born from above.

There is a radical difference between born again and born from above which is John's point, which you have not addressed.

Great I’ll ask you the question I asked him.

Maybe you can answer.


I personally believe Jesus did in fact tell Nicodemus that a person must be born again.


The reason is because Nicodemus asked if a man can go back into his mothers womb.


Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” John 3:4


Why would Nicodemus ask if a man can enter a second time into his mother’s womb if Jesus said you must be born from above?





JLB

 

[JLB]

1 John 5:6 is our assurance of salvation as Jesus came into the world by water and blood from Mary's womb as Isaiah prophesied this is how Immanuel (God with us) would come into the world, Isaiah 7:14, and God declared Him, John 1:18.

It is by the word of God given to Jesus what to speak, John 12:49, 50, who taught that one needs to be born again/born from above by receiving the word of God (living water) and of the Spirit that is God that indwells all who will believe.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Everything comes by the word of God and by His Spirit as there are three that bear witness being the Father, the Word (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit and these three are one, 1 John 5:7. Literal water is not part of God's salvation as all comes from above.

The Son of God becoming flesh and being born of a virgin is God’s plan for salvation.


You do understand that when Jesus came into this world that He came by the water from the womb of His mother as well as the blood from her hymen because she was a virgin? Right?



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

The Son of God becoming flesh and being born of a virgin is God’s plan for salvation.


You do understand that when Jesus came into this world that He came by the water from the womb of His mother as well as the blood from her hymen because she was a virgin? Right?



JLB

It is you that keeps saying being born again is by amniotic fluid and blood.

Of course it is God's plan of Salvation through Christ by that of the fulfillment of prophecy found in Isaiah 7:14 and many more scriptures found in the OT.

What we are all talking about is the words, being born again, as being born from above that Nicodemus should have understood as it was written in the Torah and he being a teacher of the Torah should have understood what Jesus was teaching him.

 

[JohnDB]

And the natural inclination for a lot of people is to instantly change what Jesus said.
Instead of "...obviously you are born from above"

They are reading: " ...You must go through the process of becoming born again... "

And there's a lot of difference between the two statements. One is a command imperative...the other is a declaration of truth....