CAN A REFORMED BELIEVER FALL AWAY FROM FAITH?

[Jethro Bodine]

See the example of Christ, and you are rebuked

Which example, this one?

Matthew 11:18-19
18For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon!’ 19The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look at this glutton and drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ But wisdom is vindicated by her actions.”

 

[gordon777]

It shows that the life is in the Father and in the Son.
One day we will all be judged,
Those who have done good will experience eternal life.
Those who have continued in evil will experience judgement.

( some versions say: committed evil deeds).

Wrong, as the words are we know eternal life when we know Jesus Christ is eternal life.


1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

 

[GodsGrace]

Do you really think the Spirit of Christ is guiding you to say an apple cant bring forth an onion ?

God is the good seed, and yet God brings forth evil. ( creates good and evil. Isaiah 45:7.)

God did bring forth the devil, God created the serpent to be more subtle than any creature the Lord God had made. ( Genesis 3:1.)

The purpose for God creating the devil, creating evil, was to present two choices, to hear God ( truth) or to hear lies ( satan)

Gordon,
Are you reformed or not?
Above you state that God created good and evil so that we can have two choices.
Choices?
In the reformed faith we have no choice at all about anything.
God does all the choosing for us, including who's saved and who is damned.

Plus, I just don't see where in scripture it states that God created evil...
Isaiah 45:7 tells us that if God withdraws Himself from a situation, chaos will ensue, which it certainly does.

Is the God of the OT different than the God of the NT?
No?
Then there is some conflict here which must be reconciled.

God has not taken His purposes away, God has told man what to believe in, and satan still disputes. To claim that there is no way for Gods seed to return to the devils seed, is to try to take away the purpose God has creat3ed in the beginning. ( which you are very unable to do.)

That is why the verse continues, ( there is a condition.) it is that, whosoever does not do righteousness, by not loving their brother, then they are not of God.




1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.




Just read on and stop trying to spread deceit on the forum.

If we love the brothers, then we know we are in life. Because the ones who do not love, hate. To perceive ( continue in belief) of Christ, is to know He layed HIs life down for us, so we do the same ( same belief) But if we harden our heart, ( shutting up bowels of compassion) no love of God is dwelling in us.

Many atheists love their brothers.
Some more than we might.
So does it mean they're saved?

 

[gordon777]

Which example, this one?

Matthew 11:18-19
18For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon!’ 19The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look at this glutton and drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ But wisdom is vindicated by her actions.”

Do you show your action is right now, to avoid debate, dispute, strife, or to engage in it instead...



Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

1 Timothy 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

God is the Word, God said be, and it was. God did produce weeds, ( He created all)

God's word does not produce evil in a person.

The seed in the context of what we're talking about here is the word of God. It will never produce weeds.

 

[GodsGrace]

Wrong, as the words are we know eternal life when we know Jesus Christ is eternal life.


1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

What did I state that is wrong?
I posted scripture.
To which you agreed...

 

[gordon777]

Plus, I just don't see where in scripture it states that God created evil...
Isaiah 45:7 tells us that if God withdraws Himself from a situation, chaos will ensue, which it certainly does.

Is the God of the OT different than the God of the NT?
No?
Then there is some conflict here which must be reconciled.

No, there is just your active discussion on forums, without you showing you know that Jesus Christ created all things.



Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

James 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Do you show your action is right now, to avoid debate, dispute, strife, or to engage in it instead...



Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

1 Timothy 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

I asked a question. Are you going to answer it?

 

[GodsGrace]

God is the Word, God said be, and it was. God did produce weeds, ( He created all)


Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.



If a person is in darkness it is because there is no light in them, but God created light and darkness..




Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.



The light, is the light of men, but men prefer darkness. Also they put darkness for light..




Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Looks like you're calling evil good.
If God made evil...
And God is all-good,
Then you're calling God evil.
When the bible states He is all-good.

This is the big problem with the reformed faith,
it changes the nature of God.
This is MORE than just incorrect doctrine...

 

[gordon777]

God's word does not produce evil in a person.

God controls what satan can do with regards to who God has His eyes on.

Satan did produce what he was allowed to influence on Job, and even Job received evil, as well as good through it. ( at the hand of God)


Job 1:12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

 

[gordon777]

Looks like you're calling evil good.
If God made evil...
And God is all-good,
Then you're calling God evil.
When the bible states He is all-good.

This is the big problem with the reformed faith,
it changes the nature of God.
This is MORE than just incorrect doctrine...

God made everything, just read and recap how it all works..

Ecclesiastes 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

Ecclesiastes 3: 11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

 

[gordon777]

The problem for you two, is that this is Gods word, and you prefer your own words ( ways, reasonings) instead, for some reason.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, there is just your active discussion on forums, without you showing you know that Jesus Christ created all things.

What!
Every Christian knows Christ is the Word, and through the Word were all things created.
Even JW's know that!

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

You must be using the KJV....500 years old.
Job 2:10

The rendition should be that we accept good from God and we also have to accept adversity. Does it state where that adversity comes from?
It seems to me that the devil caused it.

The idea being that if we believe, it does not mean we will always have health and prosper - yes, we will even face the death of loved ones.

In the same way, if we do not believe it does not mean that a persons entire life will be havoc.

Some of each falls on everyone - it's how we accept it that counts and for which our faith matters.

James 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Right.
So how does God create the evil if He's pitiful and tender of mercy?

Don't you see the conflict?

 

[gordon777]

Proverbs 20:3 It is an honour for a man to cease from strife: but every fool will be meddling.

1 Corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Galatians 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

 

[GodsGrace]

The problem for you two, is that this is Gods word, and you prefer your own words ( ways, reasonings) instead, for some reason.

It's how you understand God to be.

If you think God created evil, then you'll read that into everything, including books that were written to teach us something and are poetic in nature. This does not mean they were not inspired...

If you believe God is a good God, then you'll perceive all scripture with this in mind.

I think a person has to make up their mind what kind of nature God has (or IS)...

Did God create us as a pass time and heap all these evils on us and STILL expect us to worship Him...

Or did God create creatures He could love and that could love Him back - if they want to.

 

[GodsGrace]

You're here too Gordon.
We each believe we have the truth.
AND,,,you can't know what posters do or don't do when they're not on this form - which for me is about an hour a day.

I mean, are we going to start an I DO MORE THAN YOU DO CLUB?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Christian forums are dead. Sad, but true.

 

[GodsGrace]

You are slow to hear, and fast to speak. ( fast to wrath)

God created a time for everything, go and read and stop texting.

The same way, God controls satan, to bring evil to Job, but for the intention of good from it. It is not a difficult thing to understand ( requires none of the gnat swallowing.)

There is time and purpose to everything made under Heaven, go and find out what it is. It is honour to stop the strife, try honour.

A child suffering from cancer brings no good.
If we worship a God that has to inflict cancer on a child to bring good...

then I'll stop worshipping Him right now.

 

[GodsGrace]

Christian forums are dead. Sad, but true.

It's the only time I get to speak theology.
Look where I live.
Catholics are good people - but they know nothing of theology.
And it's like food to me.

 

[GodsGrace]

Why not show you can read even a little ? Withdraw ourselves from the disputer, strife makers..


Matthew 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

Acts 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

1 Timothy 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

I'm leaving now.