Can sinning be overcome?

[gordon777]

Why have you decided to grant independence to the members of your vessel?
My eyes look at what my mind aims them at.
Me feet run after what my mind decides to chase.
Neither my eyes nor my feet can do anything on their own.

Anyone reading can see if Hopeful has any interest in the testimony of Jesus Christ, or only denial of what is revealed here below ?



The Lord will show us the path of life, at His right hand are pleasures for evermore.

Show your marvellous lovingkindness, Him who saves by His right hand.

The Lord saves His Anointed, He will hear from His holy mountain,, with the saving strength of His right hand.



( the wicked) in whose hands are mischief, their right hand is full of bribes.



( Israel) got not their land in possession by their own arm, but the Lords right hand, and His arm, and the light of His countenance, because He had a favour unto them.




Psalm 16:11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

Psalm 17:7 Shew thy marvellous lovingkindness, O thou that savest by thy right hand them which put their trust in thee from those that rise up against them.

Psalm 20:6 Now know I that the Lord saveth his anointed; he will hear him from his holy heaven with the saving strength of his right hand.


Psalm 26:10 In whose hands is mischief, and their right hand is full of bribes.


Psalm 44:3 For they got not the land in possession by their own sword, neither did their own arm save them: but thy right hand, and thine arm, and the light of thy countenance, because thou hadst a favour unto them.




Because of truth and meekness and righteousness, His right hand shall teach terrible things.

Also the Lord shall set the Lords hand in the sea, and His right hand in the rivers.


A deceived heart turns them aside ( the wicked) that they cant deliver their soul, nor say, is there a lie in their right hand ?


The Lords hand ( the Lord Jesus Christ) has laid the foundation of the earth, His right hand has spanned the heavens.


The Lord saw that there was no intercessor, therefore His arm brought salvation unto Him, His righteousness it sustained Him.

Daniel heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.




Psalm 45:4 And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.

Psalm 89:25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.



Isaiah 44:20 He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?



Isaiah 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.


Isaiah 59:16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.

Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.




Knowing now whose right hand SAVES US.

Jesus Christ whose right hand brought salvation preached, If our right hand offends us, ( the wicked/ in whose hands are mischief, their right hand is full of bribes. A deceived heart has turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?) to cut it off and cast it from us, for it is better for us that one of our body parts perish, and not that our whole body should be cast into hell.





Matthew 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.



The Son of God had in His right hand seven stars.

The mystery of the seven stars which we saw in His right hand, the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches,, and the seven candlesticks are the seven churches.

Unto the angels of the churches says He that holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the middle of the seven golden candlesticks. ( the seven churches.)

It was seen in the right hand of Him that sat on the throne, a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

The Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, prevailed to open the book and loosen the seven seals of it.

The Lamb stood as He had been killed, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth, and He came and took the book out of the hand ( right hand) of Him that sat upon the throne.

The Lamb was worthy to take the book and to open the seals, for He was killed and had redeemed us to God by His blood for every people and made us unto our God kings and priests, and we shall reign upon the earth. ( because of His right hand)






Revelation 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

Revelation 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Revelation 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

Revelation 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

Revelation 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.





The devil/beast, causes all people, small and great, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads.

The beast/false prophet, deceives those who received the mark of the beast, ( who do not trust in the right hand of the Lord, the wicked, in whose right hand is mischief, a deceived heart turns them aside to not know there is a lie in their right hand.) and are both cast alive into the lake of fire.

The souls of those beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of God, which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads or in their hands, ( right hand) and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. ( the day of salvation is for ever with Christ. 2 Corinthians 6:2. 2 Peter 3:8.)

The seventh angel sounded, the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign for ever.

The city ( Heavenly Jerusalem) had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

No night there, they need no light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light, and they shall reign for ever.




Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[gordon777]

Why have you decided to grant independence to the members of your vessel?
My eyes look at what my mind aims them at.
Me feet run after what my mind decides to chase.
Neither my eyes nor my feet can do anything on their own.

If your right eye offends you, to cast it from you, for it is profitable for you, that one of your body parts perish, and not for your whole body to be cast into hell.


Daniel lifted up His eyes and saw a man ( Son of man) clothed in linen, lions girded with fine gold. His eyes as lamps of fire, His arms and feet as polished brass, the voice like the voice of a multitude.

In the middle of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, ( Son of God) clothed with a garment and girt with a golden girdle. His eyes were as flames of fire, His feet like unto fine brass, His voice as the sound of many waters.

These things says the Son of God, who has his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass.





Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.


Daniel 10:5 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:

Daniel 10:6 His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.


Revelation 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

Revelation 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;




This is what Christ said to us.


The light of the body is the eye, if our eye is single our whole body shall be full of light. ( trusting in the eyes of fire of the Son of God)

But if our eye is evil, ( not trusting in the eyes of the Lord with eyes flames of fire.) we did not hear what Christ had taught, if our right eye offends us, to cast it from us.) our whole body shall be full of darkness. (if the light which is in us/through an evil eye, be darkness, how great is that darkness.)




Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

Matthew 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

 

[gordon777]

I believe sin can be overcomed but no human is willing to go to that level of sacrifice, Holy Spirit endowing, and walk of holiness to hold the line of perfection as Jesus did. Adam and Eve didn't have a flesh that hated what God wants pre-Fall, and they couldn't. But even when we want to do right we still fall that's why us as humans are hopeless without Jesus, God, the Spirit.

Soldier are willing.

As a good soldier of Jesus Christ, we are committed and charged to war a good warfare, ( endure all hardships) as the weapons of our warfare are not carnal ( sinning and not enduring) but they are mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds( all the strongholds of the enemy who wants us to fail Christ and sin)

Christ ( our captain) brings many sons ( good soldiers of His) to glory, by the captain of our glory made perfect through sufferings. ( we suffer with Him in those perfect sufferings of His, to be glorified together.)

We are joint heirs with Chris, and have to overcome this world of sin, even as He also overcame for us to follow Him believing that we will overcome, that he has overcome. ( John 16:33. Revelation 3:21.)



Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

1 Timothy 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;

Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

 

[gordon777]

Making it impossible for either me or you to make the claim that only Jesus could make:

Jhn 14:30
1.... the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.


1Jo 1:10
2.If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

You might need further surrounding scriptures, to not lose out on context.



Jesus says He gives us HIs peace, for our hearts to not be troubled or afraid.

He shows He goes away ( that is why His peace He left with us) but we rejoice, as the Father will do greater things than those. ( John 5:20)

Jesus told us beforehand what will happen ( of the prince of this world coming to Christ) who has nothing in Christ.

But through what was told to us ( beforehand) we know the Son loves the Father, and as the Father gave the Son commandment, He does. ( commandment to lay His life down for us/ His commandment is life everlasting. John 12:50)




John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.


Further context was the time the prince of this world came to Christ, it was the hur of the betrayers and murderers, ( who have nothing in Christ.) the power of darkness.



Luke 22:53 When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.



Now your impossibility ?


Is it impossible for you to say that the power of darkness ( the prince of this world that has nothing in Christ) has nothing in you ?

I can show that we are turned from darkness to light, from the power of satan ( the prince of his world that has nothing in Christ/ the power of darkness) to the power of God.

For Christ delivered us from the power of darkness ( from the prince who had nothing in Christ)

Christ delivered us from death. ( by dying for us, to destroy the prince of this world, the devil who had the power over death.)




Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:


2 Corinthians 1:10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.




2. If you want to know if we can say we have no sin, why give one verse only for such a question ?



Again put context back, pout all the verses in the chapter back, and it helps.


The message is about God, He is light. We cant have fellowship with Him in darkness, or we lie. We walk in the light as He is in the light, to have fellowship with one another, for the blood of Christ to clean us from all sin. ( of being in the power of darkness/the prince of this world that had nothing in Christ, which we are delivered from also/who Christ went to, but came away from.)

If we say we have no sin ( walking in darkness) of course it is a lie, if we confess our sins He is faithful ( has been faithful) to forgive our sins and to cleanse us form all unrighteousness. ( BUT IF WE WALK IN THE LIGHT AS HE IS IN THE LIGHT, HE HAS CLEANSED US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.)

If we say we have not sinned we make Him a liar. (IF WE SAY WE HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH HIM, AND WALK IN DARKNESS, WE LIE AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US.)



1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[gordon777]

Your old nature is still with you as well & it still sins .
You don't believe it is your new nature that, lies, lusts, covets, etc,etc, do you ?

Paul was much less confused than yourself concerning cohabitating two natures we all have.
Rom 7:25
So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

I see the same problem again, of one verse picked.


Paul speaks about delighting in the law of God after the inward man.


(For a comparison we are testified all about Israel ( in the law of God) who it was testified delight to know His ways, they take delight in approaching to God.)


Isaiah 58:2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.



Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:



Israel of the law of God, did the very same that Paul is describing, ( delight to know His ways, in the law of God, after the inward man.)

But Paul sees another law in his members, which wars against the law of his mind ( the law of God that Paul, who was a Jew in the law of God, and Israel in the law, delight after.) and bringing Paul ( and Israel) who delight in the law of God, into captivity, to the law of sin which is in his members. ( and in the members of Israel in the law of God.)

( Paul revealed in 2 Corinthians 10, about casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity, every thought to the obedience of Christ.)



Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.


2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;



Paul asks who shall deliver him from the body of this death ?

Paul answers who, Jesus Christ our Lord, as with the mind we serve the law of God, ( as Israel served and as Paul in the same law of Israel served, who both delight in the law of God after the inward man) but with the flesh, the law of sin was served.

Next verse, ( regarding serving the law of sin in the flesh.) there is therefore now, no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, as they walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. ( made fee/delivered from the law of sin and death/the other law we saw in our members, bringing us into captivity. The law was weak through the flesh, as Paul had explained, Christ condemned sin in that weak flesh/the other law we saw in our members, for us to now walk after the Spirit, not the flesh, that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us. ( which could no be fulfilled when we saw another law in our members, but the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us free/delivered us from the law of sin and death/ the body of this death.)



Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 82 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[Highway54]

Well, there are those who focus on the magnificent person scripture promises they are regardless of how they actually behave. It’s like they look into the mirror of scripture but forget it all when they walk into real life.

Very true, one has to live the faith. Sadly many teach the truth, but do not live it. None of us lives it perfectly, but we should do our best, and try not to practice where we fall short.

 

[Highway54]

I don’t see that all christians practice righteousness. I don’t see that at all. Many focus solely on them being saved. Or like some here, how sinless they are regardless of how they behave.

I did say Christians maam, and I meant it in the literal sense, not in the sense that someone who says they are Christian, yet prove false to it's power. It is rather easy to identify a true Christian like Jesus said, by their fruits.

 

[Highway54]

No Christians do righteousness, nor those of the world, if they also do unrighteousness.

Fruits do more than identify, because men do not gather thorns of figs. When people tell truth or lie, it is easily evident.


The evidence is they are without fruit.

Neither can they acknowledge the truth, they can only deny it.

Everybody is known by the abundance of their heart.


Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Matthew 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

Luke 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;


Wonderful works are not works of righteousness, and yes, everybody who is able to do righteousness is born of Him, as testified.

For you guys in the thread, there is little point of trying to disagree with scripture testimony, unless you want to be identified over and over as doing so.

When people tell truth or lie, it is easily evident.


The evidence is they are without fruit.

As you gave by this example sir, those are fruits as well, identifiers.

 

[Consecrated Life]

You might need further surrounding scriptures, to not lose out on context.

The context is perfect .
Therefore neither me or you dare not make the same claim for yourself that Jesus makes for Himself.

Jhn 14:30
1.... the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

The scriptures will tell you why you dare not make this claim for yourself.
Although the fact that you have dared not to make the claim so far tells me you already know.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I did say Christians maam, and I meant it in the literal sense, not in the sense that someone who says they are Christian, yet prove false to it's power. It is rather easy to identify a true Christian like Jesus said, by their fruits.

Well, then you become less tolerant of different places in one's walk. I do not think true Christians are only those who achieve righteous behavior. There is tolerance within the kingdom of God. But yes, the character of a person, the fruit, show who is following Jesus and to what degree.

 

[Consecrated Life]

I see the same problem again, of one verse picked.
no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

I see the same problem as well.
The belief that having no condemnation , equates to having no more endemic nature .
Which if were true would by definition then mean you could this very moment make the same claim for yourself that this Jesus who is the Christ makes for Himself.

Jhn 14:30
1.... the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

Yet you dare not .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Either you do not understand what the "endemic nature" is, not to mention a boatload of scripture, or we are light years apart concerning what we believe the nature of this Jesus to be.

I understand that theology likely better than you because I see the falsehood in it. But sure, show me the "boatload" of scripture. You can omit Ps 51:5 where David's mother sinned when he was being conceived not addressing David at all although Jeremiah said the opposite of being sinful as an infant. You can also omit Ephesians 2:3 which says we sin by nature because Paul, the author, wrote that the gentiles do the law by nature (Romans 2:14)

And could you please drop the ad hominem ("you do not understand because you do not think as I do") line. I know the sin nature doctrine quite well and all the scriptures applied to support that. It was not heard of in the church until Augustine so it is easy to trace its history. I also know why it is so popular and how it led to the sinner's prayer avoiding embarrassing repentance of sins actually done. Just say the prayer and do not be humbled because everyone is a sinner from conception. If the human pride does not like that doctrine over all others!

 

[gordon777]

Very true, one has to live the faith. Sadly many teach the truth, but do not live it. None of us lives it perfectly, but we should do our best, and try not to practice where we fall short.

If we continue to fall short, how are we living the testimony of the scripture ( of those who fell short He glorified)


Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 

[gordon777]

I did say Christians maam, and I meant it in the literal sense, not in the sense that someone who says they are Christian, yet prove false to it's power. It is rather easy to identify a true Christian like Jesus said, by their fruits.

Some have good fruit some have evil fruit, the evil tree has perfect evil fruit, and the good tree likewise has perfect good fruit.

Luke 8:14And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. ( bring forth fruit to perfection.)

 

[gordon777]

The context is perfect .
Therefore neither me or you dare not make the same claim for yourself that Jesus makes for Himself.

Jhn 14:30
1.... the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

The scriptures will tell you why you dare not make this claim for yourself.
Although the fact that you have dared not to make the claim so far tells me you already know.

THe prince of this world has nothing in Christ, we are in Chist, the prince of this world has nothing in us.

1 John 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

 

[gordon777]

Well, then you become less tolerant of different places in one's walk. I do not think true Christians are only those who achieve righteous behavior. There is tolerance within the kingdom of God. But yes, the character of a person, the fruit, show who is following Jesus and to what degree.

Righteous behaviour is those born of Him.


1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.


1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

 

[gordon777]

I understand that theology likely better than you because I see the falsehood in it. But sure, show me the "boatload" of scripture. You can omit Ps 51:5 where David's mother sinned when he was being conceived not addressing David at all although Jeremiah said the opposite of being sinful as an infant. You can also omit Ephesians 2:3 which says we sin by nature because Paul, the author, wrote that the gentiles do the law by nature (Romans 2:14)

And could you please drop the ad hominem ("you do not understand because you do not think as I do") line. I know the sin nature doctrine quite well and all the scriptures applied to support that. It was not heard of in the church until Augustine so it is easy to trace its history. I also know why it is so popular and how it led to the sinner's prayer avoiding embarrassing repentance of sins actually done. Just say the prayer and do not be humbled because everyone is a sinner from conception. If the human pride does not like that doctrine over all others!

Ephesians 2, shows how we are quickened from being dead in sins and trespasses. ( the Lords prayer was was for His Kingdom to come and to forgive us, Christ came in His Kingdom and forgave us, now the Spirit of the Son prays for us.)

But the children of disobedience ( of wrath and not of faith in Christ) are led by the prince of the power of the air, after this world, their nature is tied up with the devil.)



Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.



Romans 2, along with the entire bible, speaks of how we are justified ( by faith in Christ and by the faith of Christ.) and that is the only way anyone by nature ( their nature is no longer with the devil, it is with Christ now) can do the things contained in the law. ( it is the law of Christ)

Now we are no longer under the schoolmaster( the law) we are under the law to Christ/the law of Christ.



Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


1 Corinthians 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 

[Consecrated Life]

I understand that theology likely better than you because I see the falsehood in it. But sure, show me the "boatload" of scripture.

So what is the falsehood you see in the endemic nature theology ?

Jesus was flesh completely void of the endemic nature.

No scripture says that. ( Dorothy Mae )

 

[Dorothy Mae]

If we continue to fall short, how are we living the testimony of the scripture ( of those who fell short He glorified)


Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Reality is not all or nothing.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Ephesians 2, shows how we are quickened from being dead in sins and trespasses. ( the Lords prayer was was for His Kingdom to come and to forgive us, Christ came in His Kingdom and forgave us, now the Spirit of the Son prays for us.)

Dead in sins because we sinned. No mention of a sin nature.

But the children of disobedience ( of wrath and not of faith in Christ) are led by the prince of the power of the air, after this world, their nature is tied up with the devil.)

Sin Nature is your conclusion. The scripture doesn’t say this. Besides, the wording is children of disobedience which has to mean what they do, but what they are.

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

As I said, behaviour is the point, not being. The lusts of the flesh are acts people DO.

Romans 2, along with the entire bible, speaks of how we are justified ( by faith in Christ and by the faith of Christ.) and that is the only way anyone by nature ( their nature is no longer with the devil, it is with Christ now) can do the things contained in the law. ( it is the law of Christ)

The Bible says the gentiles “BY NATURE do the law.”

This “nature no longer with the devil” isn’t there in scripture. It’s children of disobedience, not children of Satan.

Now we are no longer under the schoolmaster( the law) we are under the law to Christ/the law of Christ.



Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

As I said, Paul sees the unbeliever (Gentiles) as doing the law (don’t murder, don’t steal, etc) by nature. To Paul, They don’t have a sin nature, obviously.

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


1 Corinthians 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

You do realize that the moral law still applies.We are not free from “do not murder,” “do not steal,” “do not lie about others,” etc.

The error is in thinking everyone is born that way. But examining real children shows it isn’t so. They aren’t all born controlled by the lusts of the flesh. BUT, through many choices we can make ourselves into those kind of people by nature.

There are people whose thoughts continually are filled with their bodily desires. They have become by nature or character that sort of person. They weren’t born that way.