Can sinning be overcome?

[gordon777]

The world did not receive Him. There is no scripture that says God gave the unbelievers power to receive him otherwise you would quote it. Because that is not true. We have a small, necessary but insufficient part to play in our relationship with God.

It must be small, for you are not quoting anything so far to show our part to play.


Scripture only shows the calling and choosing of the Lord. ( we just saw that, how Jesus literally called them when they were not looking.) Again is was foretold of this, how God was found of them that SOUGHT HIM NOT, He was manifested unto them, THAT ASKED NOT AFTER HIM.


Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

Romans 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

 

[gordon777]

Ah, the spirit of truth, not salvation. Salvation is a different matter. And yes, only those who are his can receive the spirit of truth, although it is not automatic nor do all who are his want the spirit of truth. Many who are his do not want to receive the Spirit of truth and so do not have it.

gordon777 said: "John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."


It says in the verse that I quoted, they do not see Him ( the Spirit of truth)

But the disciples knew Him, for He dwelled with them ( Jesus Christ) and shall be in them. ( the Spirit of Christ, which as testified, is for salvation.)


Philippians 1:19 For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,



The world does not receive because it sees Him not, is testified.

Of course Apostle Paul gave us more info on this.

How they speak the hidden wisdom of God, in a mystery, which the princes of this world know not ( the world who cannot receive)

But eye has not seen, ( the world sees Him not) nor ear heard, the things God has prepared for those who love Him ( who He calls/chosen, who se the testimony, not blaspheme it) and God reveals them by giving the Spirit, not by not giving it. ( God reveals to us how to receive and believe by the Spirit, it cant be refused when people would not know what it is or what it is going to tell them, and God does give to all he calls, chooses and loves as told.)


1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

 

[gordon777]

Jesus did not mean that flesh is evil, he was stating a fact. He was flesh as well. Flesh is not bad nor opposite of spirit except when fulfilling its desires that are wrong. Jesus was not a Gnostic who despised the fleshly body.

We are not in the flesh, so flesh is not good.


Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

 

[gordon777]

Tares begin their life bad, and continue until they are burnt and taken away.

Wheat begins good, and continues until it is cut and taken to the barn at harvest.


Although the wicked begin speaking lies, as soon as they be born. ( as soon as they can speak.) not all are the wicked, but the wicked are transgressors from the womb.



Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Isaiah 48:8 Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb.



God knows His servants from the womb, to sanctify them and ordain them.


Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.



If we are not that planing of God ( from the womb t has to be, to be the planting/seed) we are the seed of satan, as told plainly. But if we are planted by God, we are rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, AS TESTIFIED.



Isaiah 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.


Matthew 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Matthew 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Matthew 15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

Colossians 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

These two quotes speak the same, read and see, and they tell, how we can tell if we are in the truth ( in the Spirit)


1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.


1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

I’m absolutely sure there are christians who claim by faith that describes them whereas both God and man don’t see this at all. God cares what you do, not what you claim you are doing.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

We are not in the flesh, so flesh is not good.


Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

If you need to eat and sleep, you are still in the flesh/body. God made our flesh and called it good. Gnostics call the flesh evil.

 

[gordon777]

I’m absolutely sure there are christians who claim by faith that describes them whereas both God and man don’t see this at all. God cares what you do, not what you claim you are doing.

Yes, and reading the words, we love in deed and in truth. ( love by laying our lives down for the brothers) to know we are of the truth.

We perceive ( this is how we know the truth, and how we know we are of the truth) the love of God, because He laid HIs life down for us.


1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

 

[gordon777]

If you need to eat and sleep, you are still in the flesh/body. God made our flesh and called it good. Gnostics call the flesh evil.

That is why Christ gave instruction for us to not labour for the meat that perishes, but for the meat that endures unto everlasting life, which the Son of man gives to us. ( why labour for that which is NOT BREAD, and labour for that which satisfies not ?)


Isaiah 55:2 Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.



John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.


Jesus is the bread of life, the fathers who ate manna in the wilderness are dead. ( that is being in the flesh)

But the bread that comes down from Heaven ( the Spirit) that we may eat and not die, is the living bread, which if any man eats that bread we shall live for ever. ( the Spirit is for ever.) and the bread H gave was HIs flesh, ( the meat that endures to life everlasting/not labouring for that which is not bread and satisfies not) which He gave for the life of the world. ( flesh is death, Spirit is life.)


John 6:48 I am that bread of life.
49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.



As for sleep.


Ephesians 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.


( flesh is not good, we are evil, only one is good that is our good shepherd. Everything God had made was good, then it was cursed, because it did not remain good/ the devil was around who spoke EVIL.)



Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

John 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

 

[Highway54]

Well, then you become less tolerant of different places in one's walk. I do not think true Christians are only those who achieve righteous behavior. There is tolerance within the kingdom of God. But yes, the character of a person, the fruit, show who is following Jesus and to what degree.

Christians love and respect all their brothers and sisters no matter what their position maam:
1co 12:20 But now they are many members, but one body.
1co 12:21 The eye can`t tell the hand, "I have no need for you," or again the head to the feet, "I have no need for you."
1co 12:22 No, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary.
1co 12:23 Those parts of the body which we think to be less honorable, on those we bestow more abundant honor; and our unpresentable parts have more abundant propriety;
1co 12:24 whereas our presentable parts have no such need. But God composed the body together, giving more abundant honor to the inferior part,
1co 12:25 that there should be no division in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another.
1co 12:26 When one member suffers, all the members suffer with it. Or when one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
1co 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.

Those who claim to be of that body, but who's fruits indicate otherwise, do not fall into that category maam. Would you say a married "Christian" committing repeated adultery with another is a Christian? I wouldn't. Christians live the faith, imitating the Christ 1 Pet 2:21

 

[Highway54]

If we continue to fall short, how are we living the testimony of the scripture ( of those who fell short He glorified)


Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Through the ransom of Jesus gordon777 , the only way

 

[Highway54]

Some have good fruit some have evil fruit, the evil tree has perfect evil fruit, and the good tree likewise has perfect good fruit.

Luke 8:14And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. ( bring forth fruit to perfection.)

You got it gordon777 the true identifier of Christians

 

[gordon777]

If you need to eat and sleep, you are still in the flesh/body. God made our flesh and called it good. Gnostics call the flesh evil.

How does man live ? By every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God ( literally) they do not live by bread alone.

Jesus told the disciples, He has meat to eat, that they know not of. ( every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God/out of the mouth of Christ, which the Father had given Him to give to us.)



Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

John 4:32 But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of.




Jesus gives us that Word ( He is the living Word.) how we eat His flesh and drink HIs blood, to have eternal life, to be raised up at the last day, and He that eats His flesh and drinks HIs blood, dwells in Him and He in him. The living Father sent Him, and He lives by the Father, so he that eats the Son, we shall live by Him.



John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

John 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.




Then those who believe on Him, as the scripture has said, out of HIs belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Jesus said He has not spoken of Himself ( we live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.) but the Father gave Him commandment, what He should say, and what He should speak.

Do we not yet understand, whatsoever enters in at the mouth goes into the belly, and is cast out into the draught ? ( for those who believe, out of the moth of belly of GOD FLOWS RIVERS OF LIVING WATER, AND WE LIVE BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD AND NOT BY BREAD ALONE.)




John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Matthew 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?





God is far more critical than people, and He judges more than by the proud look on a persons face, He judges the fools by the multitude of their words. ( years non stop morning till all night on these forums) and Jesus tells us straightly, by our words ( which should be few, should be slow, should speak as Christ, not ourselves, but by what the Father has given us.) we shall be justified, or condemned.

Instead of being as God has warned, to be slow to speak and quick to hear. ( which they show the very opposite always )

Not only will the fool continue to be KNOWN, by the multitude of his words, the preaching of the cross ( to eat His flesh and drink His blood) is foolishness to the same fools, ( For the preaching of the cross is to them that PERISH foolishness.) They labour for the meat which PERISHES, not for that meat which endures unto everlasting life. But unto us which are saved, it is the power of God.




Ecclesiastes 5:3 For a dream cometh through the multitude of business; and a fool's voice is known by multitude of words.


John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

James 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:

 

[Consecrated Life]

If what you believe were true then a child who has not even begun to talk, would need to be taught to greedily rip away a desired toy from the hands of another child ?
But we know that no one needs to teach a very small child greed & anger & jealousy, don't we .

But the majority of children I watched as my children were growing did not do this. They just did not. If what you believe were true that ALL the children would be constantly doing this. This is not the case.

If we were born void of a sin nature as you claim then no child would display , greed , covetousness , anger, lying without being taught to do so.
None!
You can't explain the untaught young children you do see that do act upon their nature is the point?
What you see in a Majority or Minority, or 50/50 split makes no difference .
The fact remains that young untaught children display sin and you can't explain why, which makes the claim that they all are born without a sin nature non-sensical
In relation Cain & Abel were born with the exact same fallen nature but we are told of Cain's decision to act upon his sinful nature out of the sin of jealousy and commit the further sin of murder against his brother.
No one taught Cain, or Abel, about anger, jealousy, pride, murder .
The very first family born of parents that sinned against God , carried on the with the fallen nature in anger , jealousy ,& murder.
Do you think God told us of this horrific first family dynamic in order to let us know we are born pure ?
Really ?
Cain & Abel were not born with different natures they came into the world with the same sinful nature .

Gen 4:8
And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Christians love and respect all their brothers and sisters no matter what their position maam:
1co 12:20 But now they are many members, but one body.
1co 12:21 The eye can`t tell the hand, "I have no need for you," or again the head to the feet, "I have no need for you."
1co 12:22 No, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary.
1co 12:23 Those parts of the body which we think to be less honorable, on those we bestow more abundant honor; and our unpresentable parts have more abundant propriety;
1co 12:24 whereas our presentable parts have no such need. But God composed the body together, giving more abundant honor to the inferior part,
1co 12:25 that there should be no division in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another.
1co 12:26 When one member suffers, all the members suffer with it. Or when one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
1co 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.

So is your position that if scripture says we OUGHT to behave a certain way we automatically do do? If scripture says “do not commit adultery” no christians ever do? Why are there rules here if all christians are automatically tolerate?

Those who claim to be of that body, but who's fruits indicate otherwise, do not fall into that category maam.

Sir, you do realize that you are having to determine if one is a Christian by how they behave, right? Are you prepared to tell those who are intolerant here (they aren’t few) that they aren’t real believers?

Do you see the problem? You can’t get from an “ought to be so” to “it therefore is so.”

Would you say a married "Christian" committing repeated adultery with another is a Christian? I wouldn't.

How many times before you decide they aren’t one? How many times being in fact intolerant does one conclude they aren’t one?

Christians live the faith, imitating the Christ 1 Pet 2:21

And if they don’t today? Then what?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You got it gordon777 the true identifier of Christians

Are you two prepared to insist that some are not christians because of their behavior despite what they claim?

 

[gordon777]

Through the ransom of Jesus gordon777 , the only way

We cant continue to come short of the glory of God, and be glorified at the same time. That is when we do not come short any more. Romans 8:30.)

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;



Here is what that Ransom of Christ brought for us. ( read them they are specific.)



John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. (
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 1:3. 1:20.)


Romans 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Romans 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.


Philippians 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

1 Thessalonians 2:12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.

2 Thessalonians 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

1 Peter 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

1 Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

2 Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

 

[gordon777]

So is your position that if scripture says we OUGHT to behave a certain way we automatically do do? If scripture says “do not commit adultery” no christians ever do? Why are there rules here if all christians are automatically tolerate?

The Christian believer that commits fornication is a wicked person. ( commanded to be put away from us.) who also are covetous, an idolator, a railer, a drunkard, an extortioner.


1 Corinthians 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

 

[gordon777]

If we were born void of a sin nature as you claim then no child would display , greed , covetousness , anger, lying without being taught to do so.
None!
You can't explain the untaught young children you do see that do act upon their nature is the point?
What you see in a Majority or Minority, or 50/50 split makes no difference .
The fact remains that young untaught children display sin and you can't explain why, which makes the claim that they all are born without a sin nature non-sensical
In relation Cain & Abel were born with the exact same fallen nature but we are told of Cain's decision to act upon his sinful nature out of the sin of jealousy and commit the further sin of murder against his brother.
No one taught Cain, or Abel, about anger, jealousy, pride, murder .
The very first family born of parents that sinned against God , carried on the with the fallen nature in anger , jealousy ,& murder.
Do you think God told us of this horrific first family dynamic in order to let us know we are born pure ?
Really ?
Cain & Abel were not born with different natures they came into the world with the same sinful nature .

Gen 4:8
And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

There is a difference between the wicked estranged from the womb, and little children.


Little children are such of the Kingdom of Heaven. ( which is not sin, or any sin nature)

Also it would not allow Jesus to teach for us to convert and become as little children. ( if we are to convert to a sin nature)

Clearly when we convert, it is to a nature that is Spirit. ( without a sin nature.)



Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

 

[gordon777]

Aren't you guys fortunate I was here to help you a little in your constant talks. ( morning till night, day after day, for years and years non stop.)

 

[Dorothy Mae]

If we were born void of a sin nature as you claim then no child would display , greed , covetousness , anger, lying without being taught to do so.

Untrue, Animals who have no sin nature, if mistreated or lacking care as young bite and scratch. Some Children who are neglected behave badly as they age. This explains the difference, not a sin nature. Any child psychologist can tell
you this.

None!
You can't explain the untaught young children you do see that do act upon their nature is the point?

Every child is taught by watching adults. Every single one. They are indeed taught to be selfish. They observe and learn from day one. They are never ever untaught.

What you see in a Majority or Minority, or 50/50 split makes no difference .

It’s all the difference. If any children are kind and gentle, there is no inborn sin nature. That neglected children or children are fighting for their unmet needs is explained by environment. Children live what they learn from adults.

The fact remains that young untaught children display sin and you can't explain why, which makes the claim that they all are born without a sin nature non-sensical

Untrue. I’ve seen very young children using really foul words. Where did they learn this? Where do
children learn how to speak and eat and how to express their desires, right desires? They constantly learn and when adults are selfish, that’s what they learn. I’ve seen small children be exactly as selfish as their parents. Even used the exact same language to defend their selfishness. They LEARNED IT.

In relation Cain & Abel were born with the exact same fallen nature but we are told of Cain's decision to act upon his sinful nature out of the sin of jealousy and commit the further sin of murder against his brother.

Nonsense. God didn’t say they had a sinful nature at all. And this “acting in what you cannot help” is absurd. What did God tell Cain about the sin he was contemplating?

No one taught Cain, or Abel, about anger, jealousy, pride, murder .

That is silly. No one taught Abel about generosity or devotion. If you think these characters qualities need to be taught, your view of the human heart is way too simple.

The very first family born of parents that sinned against God , carried on the with the fallen nature in anger , jealousy ,& murder.

God is jealous. It’s not morally bad. God is angry. It’s not morally bad. There is no fallen nature in scripture.

Do you think God told us of this horrific first family dynamic in order to let us know we are born pure ?
Really ?

Huh? Never says any such thing. But I do know why we’re told that and it isn’t what you think.

Cain & Abel were not born with different natures they came into the world with the same sinful nature .

Gen 4:8
And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

No mention of a sin nature.

By the way, when you say all children have a sin nature but somehow Abel was able to resist it begs the question as to why no one else in your view can.