Can sinning be overcome?

[Consecrated Life]

There is a difference between the wicked estranged from the womb, and little children.


Little children are such of the Kingdom of Heaven. ( which is not sin, or any sin nature)

Also it would not allow Jesus to teach for us to convert and become as little children. ( if we are to convert to a sin nature)

Clearly when we convert, it is to a nature that is Spirit. ( without a sin nature.)



Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Then why have you not mustered a thought to explain how little untaught sinless children are able to display jealousy, anger, covetousness ?
Which you have studiously avoided doing so far ?

 

[Consecrated Life]

Untrue, Animals who have no sin nature, if mistreated or lacking care as young bite and scratch. Some Children who are neglected behave badly as they age. This explains the difference.

Every child is taught by watching adults. Every single one. They are indeed taught to be selfish. They observe and learn from day one. They are never ever untaught.

That you now this late in the game suddenly backtrack claim that every small child that acts in sinful jealous rage over a toy given to them by loving parents is only capable of doing so after being taught this jealous rage sin by the same loving parents does not surprise me.
Nobody on this forum or anywhere else for that matter believes such a thing.
By virtue of your belief that would mean that all children of born again Christians are sinless by nature until they are taught to sin by someone other than their own parents who have no more sin nature themselves.

Perfect!
It's not our fault, we couldn't have taught our child to lie , because we are sinless Christians ouselves !
I'll bet it was the mailman!

Having shed their own sin nature being incapable of teaching any sin to their own child.
It was somebody else's fault.
It was those darn unsaved neighbor's children that taught them sin , Not Me !
What a tangled web we weave indeed, when we depart from the Word of God that teaches that we will do battle with our natural flesh until the day we die .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The Christian believer that commits fornication is a wicked person. ( commanded to be put away from us.) who also are covetous, an idolator, a railer, a drunkard, an extortioner.


1 Corinthians 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

So if a person commits adultery they are NOT SAVED in your view right? So sin has the power to negate salvation, right? Sin and you lose your salvation or we’re never saved at all, right? Do works are necessary for salvation, right? (Resisting temptation is work for sure. See the difficulty in setting up a “works” definition?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

That you now this late in the game suddenly backtrack claim that every small child that acts in sinful jealous rage over a toy given to them by loving parents is only capable of doing so after being taught this jealous rage sin by the same loving parents does not surprise me.

Never said that and no child of mine ever had a jealous rage. But they were deeply loved. I cannot recall seeing a child in a rage, jealous or otherwise.

Nobody on this forum or anywhere else for that matter believes such a thing.

Me neither.

By virtue of your belief that would mean that all children of born again Christians are sinless by nature until they are taught to sin by someone other than their own parents who have no more sin nature themselves.

Nope, never said that. I know christians who are deeply self-serving and prone to jealousy. Christians mind you.

Perfect!
It's not our fault, we couldn't have taught our child to lie , because we are sinless Christians ouselves !
I'll bet it was the mailman!

Children observe their parents telling lies learn to lie by observation. Why does this pass you by?

Having shed their own sin nature being incapable of teaching any sin to their own child.

Huh???

It was somebody else's fault.
It was those darn unsaved neighbor's children that taught them sin , Not Me !
What a tangled web we weave indeed, when we depart from the Word of God that teaches that we will do battle with our natural flesh until the day we die .

Huh? I know christians who are ambitious and eliminate those they see as competition. Many are in ministry. Some of the “worship” leaders in the church these days insist their voices are always heard above others. This is glorifying themselves showing jealousy if someone else is louder. Why do you think christians are sinless and perfect??

 

[Consecrated Life]

Children observe their parents telling lies learn to lie by observation. Why does this pass you by?

Who taught Cain to murder then ?
Do you believe Adam or Eve had Corrupted Cain to murder ?
Cain must have observed somebody committing murder by your theology.
Who?

 

[Hopeful]

1Jo 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

God's Word says that the deceit , dishonesty of saying you have no sin are manifest fruits of the corrupt old nature on full display .
Spiritual racketeering , transparent to all.

When you look at 1 John 1 in context, you can tell that John is using an A-B, A-B, A-B style of writing.
(Paul used the same system in Rom 8, where he juxtaposes those who walk in the Spirit against those who walk in the flesh.)
John used it here to juxtapose those who walk in darkness-sin against those who walk in light-God.
Verses 6, 8, and 10 address those walking in darkness-sin.
Verses 5, 7, and 9 address those who walk in light-God.
The sinners walking in darkness of 1 John 1:8 cannot say they have no sin.
But what of those who walk in the light?
As there is no sin in God, who is the light, they can honestly say they have no sin.
I walk in the light, thanks to the grace of God..

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Who taught Cain to murder then ?

Who taught Abel to offer good sacrifices? Who taught him to be good? Who taught Enoch to be so good he did not die?

Do you want the answer to who teaches men to do evil? The same one who taught them to rebel? Think about it.

Do you believe Adam or Eve had Corrupted Cain to murder ?

Have you never heard of the Devil? There is not a single scripture that says that babies are born ready to commit murder. Jesus actually said that the kingdom of God was comprised of such as the little children. Why would he do that is they are totally corrupted and ready to do murder at 3 years old?

Cain must have observed somebody committing murder by your theology.

No, not at all. Dear CL, the nature and development of man and his moral character is COMPLEX. You want it to be easy and reduced to having a sin nature we cannot help. But Those words "sin nature" are no where in the Bible. "Sinful nature"is which means the character or nature has become (adjective) sinful. How? By doing sin. Why do we do sin? the Bible answers this. We do wrong because we want and do not have. We do not have because we do not ask. We ask and do not receive because we ask with wrong motives. Are these things learned? Yes, to some degree. But the Enemy is also there tempting us to do wrong and suggesting things we had never thought about. We are not alone in the world. It is complex.

Who?

 

[Hopeful]

Israel and everybody of course was labelled as evil.
Right hand doing the evil, right eye doing the evil, foot, and out of the thought proceeding evil thoughts. ( that is why right eye, right hand, foot, and heart have to be changed, or they of course remain evil.)
Matthew 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Matthew 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Matthew 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

As that is what you believe, have you cut off your hands and plucked out your eyes?
Or are you willing to perish?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

How does man live ? By every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God ( literally) they do not live by bread alone.

Jesus told the disciples, He has meat to eat, that they know not of. ( every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God/out of the mouth of Christ, which the Father had given Him to give to us.Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.John 4:32 But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of.Jesus gives us that Word ( He is the living Word.) how we eat His flesh and drink HIs blood, to have eternal life, to be raised up at the last day, and He that eats His flesh and drinks HIs blood, dwells in Him and He in him. The living Father sent Him, and He lives by the Father, so he that eats the Son, we shall live by Him.John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.John 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
John 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
Then those who believe on Him, as the scripture has said, out of HIs belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Jesus said He has not spoken of Himself ( we live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.) but the Father gave Him commandment, what He should say, and what He should speak.
Do we not yet understand, whatsoever enters in at the mouth goes into the belly, and is cast out into the draught ? ( for those who believe, out of the moth of belly of GOD FLOWS RIVERS OF LIVING WATER, AND WE LIVE BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD AND NOT BY BREAD ALONE.)John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Matthew 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?

Pages and pages of scripture having nothing to do with the discussion. Mention the word "food" and you copy and paste any scripture that has food of some kind in the sentence.

God is far more critical than people, and He judges more than by the proud look on a persons face, He judges the fools by the multitude of their words. ( years non stop morning till all night on these forums)

Not to mention pages and pages of scripture they do not actually do.

and Jesus tells us straightly, by our words ( which should be few, should be slow, should speak as Christ, not ourselves, but by what the Father has given us.) we shall be justified, or condemned.

Yes, pages and pages of Scripture copied and pasted but never lived are not going to go well.

Instead of being as God has warned, to be slow to speak and quick to hear. ( which they show the very opposite always )

Pages and pages of scripture are the opposite of being slow to speak.

Not only will the fool continue to be KNOWN, by the multitude of his words, the preaching of the cross ( to eat His flesh and drink His blood) is foolishness to the same fools, ( For the preaching of the cross is to them that PERISH foolishness.) They labour for the meat which PERISHES, not for that meat which endures unto everlasting life. But unto us which are saved, it is the power of God.

How is the power of God manifested in your life? Healings? raising the dead? Miracles of some sort?

Ecclesiastes 5:3 For a dream cometh through the multitude of business; and a fool's voice is known by multitude of words.

pages and pages of scriptures are very much a multitude of words for sure.

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

James 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:

Would be nice to be slow to copy and paste pages and pages of scripture that have nothing to do with the discussion.

 

[Consecrated Life]

When you look at 1 John 1 in context, you can tell that John is using an A-B, A-B, A-B style of writing.
(Paul used the same system in Rom 8, where he juxtaposes those who walk in the Spirit against those who walk in the flesh.)
John used it here to juxtapose those who walk in darkness-sin against those who walk in light-God.
Verses 6, 8, and 10 address those walking in darkness-sin.
Verses 5, 7, and 9 address those who walk in light-God.
The sinners walking in darkness of 1 John 1:8 cannot say they have no sin.
But what of those who walk in the light?
As there is no sin in God, who is the light, they can honestly say they have no sin.
I walk in the light, thanks to the grace of God..

We means we.
Every time
Which Includes John.
You are only digging the hole deeper.

1Jo 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

[Hopeful]

We means we.
Every time
Which Includes John.
You are only digging the hole deeper.

1Jo 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Then 1 John 1:7 and 1:9 are lies.
They say ALL our sins CAN be washed away by the blood of Christ, and ALL our unrighteousness CAN be cleansed.
I will continue to walk in the light, which is God, and there is no sin in here...to the glory of God.

Don't adopt misinterpretations of scripture that deny Christ's blood's efficacy to take away sins.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Who taught Abel to offer good sacrifices? Who taught him to be good? Who taught Enoch to be so good he did not die?

Do you want the answer to who teaches men to do evil? The same one who taught them to rebel? Think about it.

So how was Cain "taught" to murder ?
Wouldn't someone have to be murdered so he could understand what to do ?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So how was Cain "taught" to murder ?
Wouldn't someone have to be murdered so he could understand what to do ?

Obviously not. Do you think children are born able to murder? Why aren't more children killing more children?

What did God say to Cain? Did he tell him that he had a sin nature and it was too bad because it would be millennia before Jesus would come to help him? Did he tell him that he inherited a murderous nature from Adam and it was not his fault? Do you know what God Almighty said to Cain?

He told him that sin was OUTSIDE OF HIM and wanted to have him but he, Cain, must resist. Obviously the man let sin in. So why do you think man are incapable of thinking and planning and carrying out NEW plans? Look around at the technical world you see. Did everyone new invention have to be taught by someone to someone else? Do you remember the Tower of Babel? God said that man was CAPABLE of anything they put their mind too. Do you see that man is capable of INVENTING new matters never before seen? Some of these bad and some good. Why do you insist that no man can invent anything new but has to be taught everything?

 

[Consecrated Life]

Then 1 John 1:7 and 1:9 are lies.
They say ALL our sins CAN be washed away by the blood of Christ, and ALL our unrighteousness CAN be cleansed.
I will continue to walk in the light, which is God, and there is no sin in here...to the glory of God.

Don't adopt misinterpretations of scripture that deny Christ's blood's efficacy to take away sins.

" all sin" is washed away .
Past ,present & future.
You can confess your past sins.
You can confess your present sins.
Your future sins however must be confessed the next time you get angry, jealous , prideful , lustful etc,etc,etc.
Whether you sin today next week or next year.
If you trust in Him & turn to Him in confession when you sin each sin is washed away.
No matter how many times you fall.
What I really find disturbing for your sake is why when you sin you would want to refuse to turn to Him in confession?

When I do sin the conviction of it immediately compels me to confess it to Him and repent of it above anything else that is happening.
Nothing in this world is more important to me at that moment than turning to Him in confession and feeling the elevation of forgiveness & cleansing in Him return to my soul.
1Jo 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You know Consecrated Life, God made man pretty amazing. We are capable of great good and great evil. Not as great as the angels and demons as we are lower than they are. But we are capable of courage and kindness and self-sacrifice and deep love for others that can make a man weep. But the mass killings in the 20th century as well as the deeds of the Romans and other nations show us the depths of evil men are willing to go. It is astounding on both scales. I mean look at music and art and poetry and architecture and medicine and a host of accomplishments that are so astounding. We were not taught this. We thought it up. We have that capacity. We are made in his image.

Now why do some people do great good and some great evil? The answer is COMPLEX. It is clear that children raised in some environments are more likely to do bad. Do they learn it? Yes. But some children raised in good homes go bad. Some children raised in bad homes overcome that and do good. Some children are better than their parents and some are worse. How is this so? It is complex. But it is clear that the blood of Jesus granting forgiveness and the Holy Spirit has inspired more men to do good to change the world for good than any other single event. Christians and overcome slavery and ignorance and tyranny in the world. Not because it benefited them personally but because it was morally wrong. So the answer as to why people act as they do, good and bad is terribly complex. One answer does not fit all men.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

" all sin" is washed away .
Past ,present & future.
You can confess your past sins.
You can confess your present sins.
Your future sins however must be confessed the next time you get angry, jealous , prideful , lustful etc,etc,etc.
Whether you sin today next week or next year.
If you trust in Him & turn to Him in confession when you sin each sin is washed away.
No matter how many times you fall.
What I really find disturbing for your sake is why when you sin you would want to refuse to turn to Him in confession?

When I do sin the conviction of it immediately compels me to confess it to Him and repent of it above anything else that is happening.
Nothing in this world is more important to me at that moment than turning to Him in confession and feeling the elevation of forgiveness & cleansing in Him return to my soul.
1Jo 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we do not confess our sins that he has no reason to forgive them so future sins are not forgiven until confessed as repented of. What is more, if we fail to forgive others, God will not forgive us, past, present and future sins.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Obviously not. Do you think children are born able to murder?

Having no natural born hate, envy , jealousy of their own You say they have to be taught " thru observation"

Based on your belief that it is all taught That's why I ask who could Cain have observed & learned from about committing murder ?
Cain being the first murderer .

 

[Hopeful]

" all sin" is washed away .
Past ,present & future.

Not correct.
Just past sins like it says in Rom 3:25..."Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"

You can confess your past sins.

Then get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for their remission, (Acts 2:38, 22:16), killing the old man, (Rom 6:6), being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, (Rom 6:4), reborn of God, and walking in the light.
No sin can come from those reborn of God's seed. (1 John 3:9)

You can confess your present sins.
Your future sins however must be confessed the next time you get angry, jealous , prideful , lustful etc,etc,etc.
Whether you sin today next week or next year.

I call that false doctrine as "accommodation for sin".

If you trust in Him & turn to Him in confession when you sin each sin is washed away.

"God heareth not sinners". (John 9:31, 1 Peter 3:12)
The only way to be herd by God is to quit sinning...it is called repentance from sin and is a gift given the Gentiles by God.

No matter how many times you fall.

My repentance from sin was not a lie to God.

What I really find disturbing for your sake is why when you sin you would want to refuse to turn to Him in confession?

I find it is better just to not sin.
It is written..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Cor 7:10)
Repeated repentances are born of the world's sorrow, and will end in a second death.

When I do sin the conviction of it immediately compels me to confess it to Him and repent of it above anything else that is happening.
Nothing in this world is more important to me at that moment than turning to Him in confession and feeling the elevation of forgiveness & cleansing in Him return to my soul.
1Jo 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

At which point you too would be able to say "I have no sin."
With a continued walk in the light, God, you would never sin again too.

 

[brother Paul]

Can sinning be overcome in this life with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Some Preachers and even theologian do not believe that all sinning can be overcome in this life either with or without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Only certain sins can be overcome, thus they leave a 'gap' where sin can continue in our lives.

But people take this to mean that they can keep sinning as there is nothing they can do, or that these 'sins' are not really "hard sins" or "iniquity", but just part of being in a sinful world. Is that correct according to scripture?

Here are some texts on how we choose to heed the desires of our flesh, and for whatever reason, set aside the conviction of the Holy Spirit. "The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak" Mark 14:38.

James 1:14-15 "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death."

Galatians 5:17 "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish."

Though individual sins can be overcome, it is still something we all will fall into until the Parousia when we are glorified and become fully like Him. If a human could stop all sin forever there would be no need for the Cross, Before the infilling sin IS the life. All we do is as a lord of our own life, Sin is the norm and non-sin is the exception, and then after the infilling non-sin eventually becomes the norm and sin the exception. We are all (hopefully) being conformed into His image,

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Having no natural born hate, envy , jealousy of their own You say they have to be taught " thru observation"

We are born equipped with all the emotions man has and do not need to be and actually cannot be taught them. What is more, if we don’t have the emotion within, we cannot be taught it. We cannot be taught to feel.

Based on your belief that it is all taught That's why I ask who could Cain have observed & learned from about committing murder ?
Cain being the first murderer .

My understanding of the human is much deeper than you realize. That characterization is incorrect. Man is much more complex than you are assuming. That’s why the study of man is fascinating and at all easy to arrive at an understanding that matches real life.

My two year old started to be jealous of his infant sister nursing. That wasn’t evil. It was his need for love and attention threatened. So I learned from my mother to tell him that when she goes down for a nap he and I will play (something she cannot do.) He was satisfied and no jealousy has ever grown between them.