Can sinning be overcome?

[Dorothy Mae]

As I said Dorothy, I am a moron, I was intending to put your quotes about this right here in answer but unfortunately they were posted just above maam.

You said the dead in the lake of fire suffer, I say it is the second death, see the distinction Dorothy? Do I misunderstand what you are conveying about what that lake is?

How is this depicting God as unjust? There is pain in this life and God is not therefore unjust. Do you mean because the dead suffer? They could have avoided all of that and refused. They are actually judged for the deeds they did in this life. God is no more unjust that the perpetrator being incarcerated and suffers as a result. They was always a way out.

Yes maam, I would even say that is an understatement, as none of us will ever know Him fully Ecc 3:11

Why do you think there is only know him fully or not at all? Jesus said that eternal life IS knowing God. It must be possible. It is true as you see that he is complex. It is the best word we have to describe, complex.

We have been doing this maam, but if there is a particular subject of the Bible you would like to discuss don't hesitate to ask, feel free to send me a personal message as well if you feel it inappropriate to change topic within this thread.

Well, if you think God is unjust for sentencing men based on the deeds we have done in this life, can you explain this view? I will open up an PM because this is off topic and the "staying on topic" police are always wandering around.

 

[Highway54]

How is this depicting God as unjust? There is pain in this life and God is not therefore unjust. Do you mean because the dead suffer? They could have avoided all of that and refused. They are actually judged for the deeds they did in this life. God is no more unjust that the perpetrator being incarcerated and suffers as a result. They was always a way out.

Why do you think there is only know him fully or not at all? Jesus said that eternal life IS knowing God. It must be possible. It is true as you see that he is complex. It is the best word we have to describe, complex.

Well, if you think God is unjust for sentencing men based on the deeds we have done in this life, can you explain this view? I will open up an PM because this is off topic and the "staying on topic" police are always wandering around.

How is this depicting God as unjust? There is pain in this life and God is not therefore unjust.

Pain was a result of our request to be our own god maam, not God's fault.

Do you mean because the dead suffer? They could have avoided all of that and refused.

The dead know nothing, they do not suffer.

Why do you think there is only know him fully or not at all? Jesus said that eternal life IS knowing God. It must be possible.

Which verse do you believe is in error Dorothy? Is it possible that understanding is involved?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Pain was a result of our request to be our own god maam, not God's fault.

Well it’s also a protective devise when the body is injured, but otherwise yes.

The dead know nothing, they do not suffer.

Jesus didn’t think so. He described it in some detail and warned people unless they repent they will also go where the worm dies not.

Which verse do you believe is in error Dorothy?

none

Is it possible that understanding is involved?

In my experience errors come from choosing a pleasant theology and therefore ignoring verses that don’t fit that or being taught incorrectly.

 

[Highway54]

Well it’s also a protective devise when the body is injured, but otherwise yes.


Jesus didn’t think so. He described it in some detail and warned people unless they repent they will also go where the worm dies not.

none

In my experience errors come from choosing a pleasant theology and therefore ignoring verses that don’t fit that or being taught incorrectly.

Well it’s also a protective devise when the body is injured, but otherwise yes.

I believe we will have that still as citizens of the Kingdom, likely to a lesser degree however

Jesus didn’t think so. He described it in some detail and warned people unless they repent they will also go where the worm dies not.

Discussing that through personal messaging.

In my experience errors come from choosing a pleasant theology and therefore ignoring verses that don’t fit that or being taught incorrectly.

Exactly!

 

[justbyfaith]

There is no such thing as Christian perfectionism, Romans 3:10.

As long as we are in these unredeemed Adamic bodies we will sin, Romans 8:23.

What most do not understand is that the law is spiritual, Matthew 5:28. It searches the desires and the intent of the heart, Hebrews 4:12.

Romans 3:10-18 is qualified by 1 Corinthians 10:32 (as you compare verse 9) and Romans 6:14 (as you compare verse 19).

In verse 9 it should be clear that Jew and Gentile alike are under sin. 1 Corinthians 10:32 tells us that there is a third group: the church of God.

In v.19 it declares that verses 10-18 are what the law says to and about all those who are under it. The church of God is exempt, being not under the law (Romans 6:14). So all of the unrighteousness that is proclaimed concerning all men does not apply to the believer in Christ.

In Romans 8:23, it should be clear that the adoption is defined as the redemption of the body. In Galatians 4:5-7 we find that this has happened already (past tense) for the Galatians. So, it is possible to have this "second benefit" (2 Corinthians 1:15) in this life. See also Hebrews 9:13-14, 1 Thessalonians 5:23.

Of course, in Romans 8:24-25 (context) it appears to be saying that the redemption of the body is something that we have to wait for. But if you compare Hebrews 11:1, you will see that it is only a matter of moving from hope to faith. Then you will have the "substance of" and the "evidence for" a redeemed body.

 

[justbyfaith]

David didn’t seem to focus much on his salvation. He was more concerned with pleasing God than getting saved.

David gave us one of the primary passages in scripture that we have on salvation...Psalms 32:1-2.

 

[justbyfaith]

Do you know people who fit this description?

Again, you know people like this?

Repeating the same verses doesn’t make it any better.

I know of them. I do not acquaint myself with them.

 

[justbyfaith]

Scripture is NOT a testimony. A testimony is “I am like Jesus and today healed all who came to me.” That’s a testimony.

There are certainly testimonies that can be found in holy scripture. Read Hebrews chapter 11, for example.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

David gave us one of the primary passages in scripture that we have on salvation...Psalms 32:1-2.

One, out of all the Psalms he wrote and even that does not mention HIS salvation, simply salvation. I said he didn't focus on his own salvation much and one Psalm among many in which he is still not focusing on his salvation, establishes the truth of my statement. But I know a better one to support your case, (from memory thank you very much)

"Restore unto me the joy of your salvation...take not your Holy Spirit from me." That Psalm does speak of his salvation.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

There are certainly testimonies that can be found in holy scripture. Read Hebrews chapter 11, for example.

I know it by heart pretty much and none of those people are writing about their experiences, which is what a testimony is. A testimony is a person speaking of their own experiences, not the experiences of others who died long ago (which is what Hebrews 11 is about.)

 

[justbyfaith]

One, out of all the Psalms he wrote and even that does not mention HIS salvation, simply salvation. I said he didn't focus on his own salvation much and one Psalm among many in which he is still not focusing on his salvation, establishes the truth of my statement. But I know a better one to support your case, (from memory thank you very much)

"Restore unto me the joy of your salvation...take not your Holy Spirit from me." That Psalm does speak of his salvation.

I only gave one example. There are others also.

 

[justbyfaith]

I know it by heart pretty much and none of those people are writing about their experiences, which is what a testimony is. A testimony is a person speaking of their own experiences, not the experiences of others who died long ago (which is what Hebrews 11 is about.)

The people in Hebrews had testimonies and Hebrews 11 records them.

The fact that they are not given autobiographically does not make them any less testimonies.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I know of them. I do not acquaint myself with them.

Ok, so you have heard rumors of some people somewhere whose feet are quick to run to do evil. Well then we can assume the rest of the passage refers to some people somewhere who are like that but certainly not everyone, which is my point. Logically we cannot look at a long passage and say some words from that passage describe some people somewhere who do this and other words describe everyone. It is either everyone or some people. Some people seems to be the most truthful understanding. And I agree, some people somewhere are like that. It is not hard to find evidence for some people being like that.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I only gave one example. There are others also.

But your example defiantly did not have David talking about his own salvation. Don't you see that? Because the word "salvation" is in the sentence does not mean he is talking about how wonderful his salvation is.

 

[justbyfaith]

Ok, so you have heard rumors of some people somewhere whose feet are quick to run to do evil. Well then we can assume the rest of the passage refers to some people somewhere who are like that but certainly not everyone, which is my point. Logically we cannot look at a long passage and say some words from that passage describe some people somewhere who do this and other words describe everyone. It is either everyone or some people. Some people seems to be the most truthful understanding. And I agree, some people somewhere are like that. It is not hard to find evidence for some people being like that.

It is a matter of what is in the heart. Jeremiah 17:9 describes the heart of unregenerated mankind.

Romans 3:10-18 speaks of everyone without a regenerated heart.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

justbyfaith,

Btw, I think your idea of putting in the signature that statement is really smart. I am going to do that. There are the "cite your version"police here and the delete posts without that info if they catch you.

 

[justbyfaith]

But your example defiantly did not have David talking about his own salvation. Don't you see that? Because the word "salvation" is in the sentence does not mean he is talking about how wonderful his salvation is.

The word "salvation" is not anywhere in Psalms 32:1-2. But David describes salvation there as having your sins forgiven and being in a state where the Lord does not impute iniquity to you.

I also like Psalms 103. Not sure that David wrote it, but it certainly speaks to me greatly of the NT message of salvation. I'm surprised that it was even in the OT.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The word "salvation" is not anywhere in Psalms 32:1-2. But David describes salvation there as having your sins forgiven and being in a state where the Lord does not impute iniquity to you.

Yes true, but he is talking about ANY man who experiences this, not himself.

I also like Psalms 103. Not sure that David wrote it, but it certainly speaks to me greatly of the NT message of salvation. I'm surprised that it was even in the OT.

Yes, that is a very powerful Psalm and I love it as well.

You know, if you are a new Christian, you might not know that while the church today focuses almost exclusively on savoring your own salvation, the church in the past and the Bible did not encourage such self-absorption. If you read the worship service in Heaven, Revelation 7:9, you will find that NO ONE thanks God for their own salvation.

After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God forever and ever! Amen.”

 

[justbyfaith]

1Jo 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

God's Word says that the deceit , dishonesty of saying you have no sin are manifest fruits of the corrupt old nature on full display .
Spiritual racketeering , transparent to all.

Of course, 1 John 1:8 does not say to us, "If we say that we do no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."

It says, "If we say that we have no sin..."

It is referring to indwelling sin; not practically sinning.

Indwelling sin can be rendered dead so that it no longer has any say over your behaviour.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes true, but he is talking about ANY man who experiences this, not himself.

Yes, that is a very powerful Psalm and I love it as well.

You know, if you are a new Christian, you might not know that while the church today focuses almost exclusively on savoring your own salvation, the church in the past and the Bible did not encourage such self-absorption. If you read the worship service in Heaven, Revelation 7:9, you will find that NO ONE thanks God for their own salvation.

After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God forever and ever! Amen.”

When the roll is called up yonder I'll be there...