Can sinning be overcome?

[Dorothy Mae]

Since Christ's sinlessness is an essential aspect of the gospel, of course He mentioned the fact during His life on earth.

Where did he say "I am sinless" as you say? I would dare you to ask your wife and friends and coworkers if they see any fault (sin) in you as Jesus did. Would you be willing to do that? If you defend yourself and say nothing you do is sin, then you are in danger. But, of course, if you admit that you did and do wrong to them, then your theology is in danger. Better the theology be in danger than your soul.

It should be clear that if He had sin, He couldn't die for the sins of the world. According to the law, the lamb that is sacrificed must be without blemish and without spot.

And Jesus was and is, "the Lamb of God who taketh away the sin of the world." (John 1:29,36).

Notice it is the sin of the world, not the sin of Jesus. I say that because Jesus was focused on freeing man, not making a sinless name for himself in the world. This theology of yours focuses way too much on the self being great (sinless, perfect, etc.)

You know, I do not think I will get past the egoism of this "I am sinless" theology. There is a focus on the self that is a very strong shield. The obvious goal of Jesus was to love God and love man goes right on past. There is the tendency to think Jesus thought of his sinlessness constantly. That his perfect state was the main goal and why men should follow him. This sort of thinking is exactly how cult leaders gather followers. They praise their own sinlessness or perfection or even state of godhood. Exactly that kind of preached. Jesus loved people. He was not trying to get people to notice and love him. But I do not think I can make pass that through the armor.

 

[justbyfaith]

Where did he say "I am sinless" as you say? I would dare you to ask your wife and friends and coworkers if they see any fault (sin) in you as Jesus did. Would you be willing to do that? If you defend yourself and say nothing you do is sin, then you are in danger. But, of course, if you admit that you did and do wrong to them, then your theology is in danger. Better the theology be in danger than your soul.

That is what I am saying. If Jesus said, "Which of you convinceth me of sin?" (and He did) then He was in effect challenging them to find some sort of sin in Him, knowing that they would be unable to do so; thus, effectively, claiming to be without sin.

You know, I do not think I will get past the egoism of this "I am sinless" theology.

The theology as I present it does not say, "I am sinless".

A major part of it states that if I were sinless, I would not know my own soul (Job 9:21); and therefore would never say that I am without sin.

In Philippians 3:12-15 (pay attention, Hopeful), it teaches that if anyone is perfect, they have the attitude that they have not apprehended but press on for the goal of the upward calling of God in Christ.

I consider that perfection is an obtainable goal; but that if anyone has reached it, they do not know that they have reached it.

But the reality is, that if we can never be made mature, as Ephesians 4:13 (nlt) defines that, then what is the point of seeking holiness? If you will never be able to measure up, why try?

Here is Ephesians 4:13 (nlt):

Eph 4:13, This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.

 

[justbyfaith]

justbyfaith, that you think I would enjoy finding that you are not sinless makes me wonder if you understand the determination to follow Jesus as a life goal. Those who follow Jesus do not want to find the sin in others. They usually are fairly busy, especially at first, with the Holy Spirit pointing out their own sin. Did you learn to escape this by assuming scriptures describe you as sinless so you can avoid that unpleasant cleaning? Just a thought.

It occurred to me that those who espouse a sinless state, must find it especially difficult to respond to the Holy Spirit convicting them of sin. There is likely a special resistance to admitting they have sinned as theologically, it cannot be. There is a gap in any case, between reality and their theology.

I thought of a picture of this. Suppose a roomful of Christians from different theologies were together and they behaved very badly towards another person. They had convinced themselves it was justified but someone came in and told them what they had just done was wrong and in fact, very wrong. Now the calvinist and Armenian and baptist and lutheran and catholic and so on down the line would all have no problem with admitting this was sin. The Calvinist thinks he is going to heaven no matter what, the Aremnian would repent, the Lutheran might consider this to be covered under the general asking for forgiveness done every Sunday and the Catholic would go to Confession and tell the priest. But the one who believes as you do would struggle to even admit it was sin. That group would likely see and admit it was wrong but no sin. Cannot be sin because they are sinless. This means that perhaps, all but the last one would receive forgiveness and grace. The last one, you, would not receive forgiveness because they think it is not a sin. Deeds not sin do not need forgiveness and so no forgiveness is granted. It is not requested. There is a kind of danger in your position, I should think.

I think you have me pegged the wrong way, Dorothy Mae.

I have certainly never had a problem admitting my sin when it is the Holy Spirit who is doing the convicting.

I consider that, according to 1 John 1:7, being cleansed from all sin involves walking in the light as He is in the light.

Therefore I consider that it is expedient to be open to the light.

If there are cobwebs or filth in certain corners of the house, the light will expose that;

And as I confess my sins, He is faithful and just to forgive me of my sins and to cleanse me from all unrighteousness.

So, if I desire to be wholly cleansed, I am not going to deny the conviction of the Holy Spirit when it comes; or the shedding of light on my sinful behaviour.'

If my theology states that I will not know it if I am wholly sanctified, then it also states that I will not know it if I am a sinner apart from the Holy Spirit shedding light on that (see 1 Corinthians 4:3-4).

So, I generally do not know whether I am a sinner or not apart from the testimony of the Holy Spirit.

Therefore I find that when He does testify, it is valuable and that I should heed His voice and also respond with a response according to 1 John 1:9.

Now, here is another truth of scripture.

(in the NLT):

Col 1:22, Yet now he has reconciled you to himself through the death of Christ in his physical body. As a result, he has brought you into his own presence, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault.
Col 1:23, But you must continue to believe this truth and stand firmly in it. Don’t drift away from the assurance you received when you heard the Good News. The Good News has been preached all over the world, and I, Paul, have been appointed as God’s servant to proclaim it.

As we balance these scriptures out, it becomes clear that we are to respond to the accusations of the enemy in a certain manner. We are holy and blameless as we stand before God without a single fault; and we must continue to believe this truth and stand firmly in it;

With the exception of moments when the Holy Spirit is the one doing the convicting.

Now in Matthew chapter 5, Jesus exhorts us to agree with our adversary quickly while we are on the way with him.

I think that our basic response to the accusation of the enemy ought to be that we go immediately to the Lord about the matter. If we are guilty, then the Holy Spirit will confirm that we are guilty and then our response needs to be that we agree with the accusation, confessing our sin; thus we will be forgiven and cleansed from all unrighteousness.

But if the Holy Spirit testifies that we have not sinned, I refer you to the passage above (Colossians 1:22-23) in the NLT.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

That is what I am saying. If Jesus said, "Which of you convinceth me of sin?" (and He did) then He was in effect challenging them to find some sort of sin in Him, knowing that they would be unable to do so; thus, effectively, claiming to be without sin.



The theology as I present it does not say, "I am sinless".

A major part of it states that if I were sinless, I would not know my own soul (Job 9:21); and therefore would never say that I am without sin.

In Philippians 3:12-15 (pay attention, Hopeful), it teaches that if anyone is perfect, they have the attitude that they have not apprehended but press on for the goal of the upward calling of God in Christ.

I consider that perfection is an obtainable goal; but that if anyone has reached it, they do not know that they have reached it.

But the reality is, that if we can never be made mature, as Ephesians 4:13 (nlt) defines that, then what is the point of seeking holiness? If you will never be able to measure up, why try?

Here is Ephesians 4:13 (nlt):

Eph 4:13, This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.

You once wrote that not promising to be always loving is better than promising and not 100% fulfilling. That’s like saying “if I can’t win the race I won’t run.” Who tells their son “if you can’t get all As don’t bother trying? Do you see why? The answer is the same.

Paul writes that he (continually) presses on to the high calling of Christ. He continually presses on to know him and the fellowship of his sufferings. How is this achieved? Without holiness shall no man see God. “Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God.” To the degree we walk in real holiness, that is, obeying God, to that same degree does He reveal Himself.

So the prize of the upward call of God is fellowship with Him and if we have no personal holiness, we will not know or understand Him. There is reward for every single act of obedience to the Holy Spirit. And God’s rewards are more than worth the price.

 

[justbyfaith]

So if one avoids reading the Bible and never goes to church, they are never convicted of sin? They have bypassed that?

I certainly think that people have a conscience apart from reading the Holy Bible.

But the primary method the Holy Spirit uses to convict us of sin is through His word.

Not sure why you are in debate mode here.

Ah, so not you accuse me of lying. I knew it would not take long. He did not care whether they thought of him as a sinner or not.

I am certainly not accusing you of being a liar; however the statement that was made by you isn't true.

No, I am not. But what I am really saying you have no answer for so you set up a straw man argument.

Again, not sure why you are in debate mode. It is not my intention to argue with you.

Because of what HE, Paul, had done. Is that your position? You sure you want to say that? Paul's works made him free from the guilt of the blood of all men?

This is what is written in Acts.

Act 20:20, I never shrank back from telling you what you needed to hear, either publicly or in your homes.
Act 20:21, I have had one message for Jews and Greeks alike—the necessity of repenting from sin and turning to God, and of having faith in our Lord Jesus.
Act 20:22, “And now I am bound by the Spirit[fn] to go to Jerusalem. I don’t know what awaits me,
Act 20:23, except that the Holy Spirit tells me in city after city that jail and suffering lie ahead.
Act 20:24, But my life is worth nothing to me unless I use it for finishing the work assigned me by the Lord Jesus—the work of telling others the Good News about the wonderful grace of God.
Act 20:25, “And now I know that none of you to whom I have preached the Kingdom will ever see me again.
Act 20:26, I declare today that I have been faithful. If anyone suffers eternal death, it’s not my fault,[fn]
Act 20:27, for I didn’t shrink from declaring all that God wants you to know.

You know, Jesus said that His people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.

Perhaps you should read your Bible more. Then you won't have to be embarrassed like you are experiencing right now.

t was not important to him. You think it was but it was not. I can tell you what was important to him...loving God and loving man. That was what mattered to him. I think this theology breeds a self-focus that is unattractive.

It was important to Jesus that people believe in Him and what He did for us the Cross because He loves us and wants us to believe so that we can be saved.

Important to this is the concept that He was the sinless Lamb of God.

In the Old Testament there is a basic tenet that the sacrifice must be without blemish and without spot.

John wrote that if anyone says he is without sin he is a liar and the truth is not in him.

The problem is this. You read the scriptures and claim they personally describe your behavior no matter how you really behave. This is adapting a blindness. It comes right from pride in the self. You will give me all kinds of scriptures that prove that you are just like Jesus, perfect and sinless because Jesus said you can be so you are no matter how you really treat people.

It is a faithful doctrine of holy scripture that Christ's righteousness is imputed to the believer. This is based solely on faith and not on the believer's performance. There is no pride in it; in fact it is an antithesis to pride. If my salvation is not based on my obedience but on my acceptance of what Jesus did for me on the Cross, then I didn't accomplish my salvation.

Now, after having been justified in such a manner, we begin to be sanctified by the Holy Spirit. We begin to mature as I have defined maturity in a post above with scripture (Ephesians 4:13 (nlt)).

As it is written,

Pro 4:18, The way of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn,
which shines ever brighter until the full light of day.

Now you can take it or leave it.

Either way the word of the Lord will not return void.

Either it will save you in time or else it will hold you accountable on your day of judgment so that you are without excuse on that day.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I think you have me pegged the wrong way, Dorothy Mae.

I have certainly never had a problem admitting my sin when it is the Holy Spirit who is doing the convicting.

Glad I am wrong.

I consider that, according to 1 John 1:7, being cleansed from all sin involves walking in the light as He is in the light.

Therefore I consider that it is expedient to be open to the light.

If there are cobwebs or filth in certain corners of the house, the light will expose that;

And as I confess my sins, He is faithful and just to forgive me of my sins and to cleanse me from all unrighteousness.

So, if I desire to be wholly cleansed, I am not going to deny the conviction of the Holy Spirit when it comes; or the shedding of light on my sinful behaviour.'

ok I agree. Feels better than disagreeing.

If my theology states that I will not know it if I am wholly sanctified, then it also states that I will not know it if I am a sinner apart from the Holy Spirit shedding light on that (see 1 Corinthians 4:3-4).

Ok

So, I generally do not know whether I am a sinner or not apart from the testimony of the Holy Spirit.

Therefore I find that when He does testify, it is valuable and that I should heed His voice and also respond with a response according to 1 John 1:9.

Now, here is another truth of scripture.

(in the NLT):

Col 1:22, Yet now he has reconciled you to himself through the death of Christ in his physical body. As a result, he has brought you into his own presence, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault.
Col 1:23, But you must continue to believe this truth and stand firmly in it. Don’t drift away from the assurance you received when you heard the Good News. The Good News has been preached all over the world, and I, Paul, have been appointed as God’s servant to proclaim it.

As we balance these scriptures out, it becomes clear that we are to respond to the accusations of the enemy in a certain manner. We are holy and blameless as we stand before God without a single fault; and we must continue to believe this truth and stand firmly in it;

I just don’t think of myself that much either way. But if you struggle with condemnation from the enemy, it’s better to stand on “there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus” which is true. Standing on “I’m holy and blameless might not be true and he knows it.” You won’t defeat his condemnation by claiming you are right now holy. He will just laugh because that’s a high bar. I do know I’m not condemned and so does he. I don’t know I’m holy. “I am holy” is a statement the man prayed who was not afterwards justified. It’s a proud statement. I am not condemned is a humble statement. (Doesn’t insist I’m great.)

With the exception of moments when the Holy Spirit is the one doing the convicting.

Now in Matthew chapter 5, Jesus exhorts us to agree with our adversary quickly while we are on the way with him.

I think that our basic response to the accusation of the enemy ought to be that we go immediately to the Lord about the matter. If we are guilty, then the Holy Spirit will confirm that we are guilty and then our response needs to be that we agree with the accusation, confessing our sin; thus we will be forgiven and cleansed from all unrighteousness.

Well I actually don’t accept anything that liar says. But going to
God is a good action.

But if the Holy Spirit testifies that we have not sinned, I refer you to the passage above (Colossians 1:22-23) in the NLT.

Ok.

This was a better interaction.

 

[justbyfaith]

You once wrote that not promising to be always loving is better than promising and not 100% fulfilling. That’s like saying “if I can’t win the race I won’t run.” Who tells their son “if you can’t get all As don’t bother trying? Do you see why? The answer is the same.

A son who is told that he cannot achieve all A's will not bother trying if he believes those words.

I want to say to you that if you are basing your salvation on works, law-keeping, or personal merit, then absolute, 100% perfection is required from conception into eternity (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48).

Of course, none of us can achieve that.

This is why we need propitiation (the substitution of Christ's righteousness on our behalf as He took our sins and their penalty).

Once we have received forgiveness, the Holy Spirit begins to sanctify us; and He is able to complete this work before Christ returns (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24).

Paul writes that he (continually) presses on to the high calling of Christ. He continually presses on to know him and the fellowship of his sufferings. How is this achieved? Without holiness shall no man see God. “Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God.” To the degree we walk in real holiness, that is, obeying God, to that same degree does He reveal Himself.

So the prize of the upward call of God is fellowship with Him and if we have no personal holiness, we will not know or understand Him. There is reward for every single act of obedience to the Holy Spirit. And God’s rewards are more than worth the price.

Yes; and when it comes to holiness for justification, absolute holiness is required.

If you do not receive Christ's justification through His shed blood, then you are on your own.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I certainly think that people have a conscience apart from reading the Holy Bible.

But the primary method the Holy Spirit uses to convict us of sin is through His word.

Depends upon how mature one is and if one has learned to hear his voice, but certainly in the early stage.

Not sure why you are in debate mode here.

I’m not. You misunderstood or assume facts not in evidence.

I am certainly not accusing you of being a liar; however the statement that was made by you isn't true.

You’re not even allowed to say another is wrong here let alone a liar. Take care

Again, not sure why you are in debate mode. It is not my intention to argue with you.

I’m not. Please drop the false accusation. And can you keep your posts shorter please.

This is what is written in Acts.

Act 20:20, I never shrank back from telling you what you needed to hear, either publicly or in your homes.
Act 20:21, I have had one message for Jews and Greeks alike—the necessity of repenting from sin and turning to God, and of having faith in our Lord Jesus.
Act 20:22, “And now I am bound by the Spirit[fn] to go to Jerusalem. I don’t know what awaits me,
Act 20:23, except that the Holy Spirit tells me in city after city that jail and suffering lie ahead.
Act 20:24, But my life is worth nothing to me unless I use it for finishing the work assigned me by the Lord Jesus—the work of telling others the Good News about the wonderful grace of God.
Act 20:25, “And now I know that none of you to whom I have preached the Kingdom will ever see me again.
Act 20:26, I declare today that I have been faithful. If anyone suffers eternal death, it’s not my fault,[fn]
Act 20:27, for I didn’t shrink from declaring all that God wants you to know.

You know, Jesus said that His people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.

Perhaps you should read your Bible more. Then you won't have to be embarrassed like you are experiencing right now.

Oh wow, now the personal insults start. We’re done for today. You are definitely NOT without sin as you freely admit.

For understanding sake, Jesus has taught me that as he did not answer his accusers when they unrighteously hurled insults at him, so it’s better to not answer. It isn’t a man speaking those insults and not touching the unclean is better than throwing dirt back. That just Gets your own hands dirty.

It was important to Jesus that people believe in Him and what He did for us the Cross because He loves us and wants us to believe so that we can be saved.

Important to this is the concept that He was the sinless Lamb of God.

In the Old Testament there is a basic tenet that the sacrifice must be without blemish and without spot.


It is a faithful doctrine of holy scripture that Christ's righteousness is imputed to the believer. This is based solely on faith and not on the believer's performance. There is no pride in it; in fact it is an antithesis to pride. If my salvation is not based on my obedience but on my acceptance of what Jesus did for me on the Cross, then I didn't accomplish my salvation.

Now, after having been justified in such a manner, we begin to be sanctified by the Holy Spirit. We begin to mature as I have defined maturity in a post above with scripture (Ephesians 4:13 (nlt)).

As it is written,

Pro 4:18, The way of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn,
which shines ever brighter until the full light of day.

Now you can take it or leave it.

Either way the word of the Lord will not return void.

Either it will save you in time or else it will hold you accountable on your day of judgment so that you are without excuse on that day.

 

[justbyfaith]

You’re not even allowed to say another is wrong here let alone a liar.

That is ridiculous. We are just supposed to let false statements rule and reign in a Christian forum?

’m not. Please drop the false accusation.

You seemed to me to be in debate mode. For you said that I was using a "straw man argument". That is something someone says when they are debating.

And can you keep your posts shorter please.

No. I will make my posts as long as they need to be.

I go by this principle:

1Pe 4:11, Do you have the gift of speaking? Then speak as though God himself were speaking through you. Do you have the gift of helping others? Do it with all the strength and energy that God supplies. Then everything you do will bring glory to God through Jesus Christ. All glory and power to him forever and ever! Amen.

Oh wow, now the personal insults start. We’re done for today.

These technical difficulties get on my nerves.

Maybe that's my punishment.

At any rate, I'm sorry.

I consider myself to be a work in progress.

 

[justbyfaith]

But if you want to talk about insults, you should realize that you have accused me of pride a number of times in this conversation.

 

[justbyfaith]

You are definitely NOT without sin as you freely admit.
For understanding sake, Jesus has taught me that as he did not answer his accusers when they unrighteously hurled insults at him, so it’s better to not answer. It isn’t a man speaking those insults and not touching the unclean is better than throwing dirt back. That just Gets your own hands dirty.

You edited your post, adding this even after I had apologized.

You are in effect throwing dirt back; accusing me of unrighteously hurling insults at you; also implying that you think you're better than me in that you say that you are not getting your hands dirty by throwing insults back; when in fact this is exactly what you have done.

When all that I really said is that you should probably be a little bit more versed in the Bible if you are going to be debating people on boards like these.

And it also wasn't a woman who accused me of pride in some of your posts that you have posted.

 

[justbyfaith]

You once wrote that not promising to be always loving is better than promising and not 100% fulfilling.

What I actually said was that if I promise to be loving and then am not loving, then I am not being loving no matter how you slice it.

But if I make no promise but yet practically love my spouse, I am practically being loving to my spouse.

This is the message that you would have gotten if you had read the scripture that I included in my statements.

 

[justbyfaith]

I just don’t think of myself that much either way. But if you struggle with condemnation from the enemy, it’s better to stand on “there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus” which is true.

Actually, in such a situation he might tell you that unless you walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, Romans 8:1 does not apply to you; because of the way that the kjv renders it (which is a valid translation and therefore we cannot easily discount what some might say is an addition to the text).

 

[Highway54]

Can sinning be overcome in this life with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Some Preachers and even theologian do not believe that all sinning can be overcome in this life either with or without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Only certain sins can be overcome, thus they leave a 'gap' where sin can continue in our lives.

But people take this to mean that they can keep sinning as there is nothing they can do, or that these 'sins' are not really "hard sins" or "iniquity", but just part of being in a sinful world. Is that correct according to scripture?

Here are some texts on how we choose to heed the desires of our flesh, and for whatever reason, set aside the conviction of the Holy Spirit. "The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak" Mark 14:38.

James 1:14-15 "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death."

Galatians 5:17 "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish."

No it can not. But you can keep from committing serious sins, like those of 1 Cor 6:9,10. God always makes the way out for them Red. Perhaps you have experienced that before.

 

[justbyfaith]

No it can not. But you can keep from committing serious sins, like those of 1 Cor 6:9,10. God always makes the way out for them Red. Perhaps you have experienced that before.

If you define sin as "missing the mark" of perfection, then the truth of the matter is that we all fall short of that standard.

If you define sin as the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), then we also fall short (Galatians 6:13).

But if you define it as walking according to the flesh, it should be clear that we can walk in victory over and freedom from the power of sin.

For sin shall not have dominion over you (Romans 6:14); we are not obligated to the flesh (Romans 8:12, kjv, nlt).

1Jo 3:4 (kjv), Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Gal 6:13 (kjv), For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

Rom 6:14 (kjv), For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom 8:12 (kjv), Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Rom 8:12 (nlt), Therefore, dear brothers and sisters, you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do.

 

[Tenchi]

Can sinning be overcome in this life with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Absolutely.

Romans 6:1-2 (NASB)
1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

Romans 6:6-11 (NASB)
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 2:20 (NASB)
20 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Galatians 5:24 (NASB)
24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Galatians 6:14 (NASB)
14 But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

Colossians 3:1-5 (NASB)
1 Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
2 Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.
3 For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.
5 Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry.

Can the born-again person live perfectly sin-free this side of the grave? No. But they can be far more holy, far less sinful, than many believe they can be. As the Christian lives by faith in what is written above, staying constantly submitted to God's will and way, they are conformed by the Holy Spirit to the truth of their separation from (death) Self (the "old man") and sin, living in always-increasing holiness and fellowship with God.

Some Preachers and even theologian do not believe that all sinning can be overcome in this life either with or without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Only certain sins can be overcome, thus they leave a 'gap' where sin can continue in our lives.

Which is not biblical. See above.

But people take this to mean that they can keep sinning as there is nothing they can do, or that these 'sins' are not really "hard sins" or "iniquity", but just part of being in a sinful world. Is that correct according to scripture?

The great "boogey man" of the works-salvation moralist is the Christian who, understanding God's grace, will throw off all constraining fear and live like the devil. I've never met one of these mythological "Christians." But I have met many legalistic, fear-mongering believers who have resorted to fearful law-keeping rather than loving fellowship with God as the chief aim of their living who have fallen deeply into hypocrisy and a frustrated, nail-biting dynamic with their Heavenly Father. Sad. Very sad.

1 Corinthians 1:9 (NASB)
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

2 Corinthians 13:14 (NASB)
14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

1 John 1:3 (NASB)
3 what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.

Here are some texts on how we choose to heed the desires of our flesh, and for whatever reason, set aside the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

Not "for whatever reason"; because the believer does not really believe the love God has for them (1 John 4:16-19); they don't know who they are in Jesus Christ, living daily by faith in their identity in him (2 Peter 2:2-4; 2 Corinthians 5:7); and neglect to stay in a place of submission to God throughout each day (Romans 21:1; Romans 6:13-22; 1 Peter 5:6; James 4:6-10).

 

[justbyfaith]

Absolutely.

Romans 6:1-2 (NASB)
1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

Romans 6:6-11 (NASB)
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 2:20 (NASB)
20 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Galatians 5:24 (NASB)
24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Galatians 6:14 (NASB)
14 But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

Colossians 3:1-5 (NASB)
1 Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
2 Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.
3 For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.
5 Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry.

Can the born-again person live perfectly sin-free this side of the grave? No. But they can be far more holy, far less sinful, than many believe they can be. As the Christian lives by faith in what is written above, staying constantly submitted to God's will and way, they are conformed by the Holy Spirit to the truth of their separation from (death) Self (the "old man") and sin, living in always-increasing holiness and fellowship with God.



Which is not biblical. See above.



The great "boogey man" of the works-salvation moralist is the Christian who, understanding God's grace, will throw off all constraining fear and live like the devil. I've never met one of these mythological "Christians." But I have met many legalistic, fear-mongering believers who have resorted to fearful law-keeping rather than loving fellowship with God as the chief aim of their living who have fallen deeply into hypocrisy and a frustrated, nail-biting dynamic with their Heavenly Father. Sad. Very sad.

1 Corinthians 1:9 (NASB)
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

2 Corinthians 13:14 (NASB)
14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

1 John 1:3 (NASB)
3 what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.



Not "for whatever reason"; because the believer does not really believe the love God has for them (1 John 4:16-19); they don't know who they are in Jesus Christ, living daily by faith in their identity in him (2 Peter 2:2-4; 2 Corinthians 5:7); and neglect to stay in a place of submission to God throughout each day (Romans 21:1; Romans 6:13-22; 1 Peter 5:6; James 4:6-10).

It should be clear that if sin be defined as "missing the mark" of perfection that we all fall short.

If it be defined as the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), it should be clear that none of us can keep the law (Galatians 6:13).

But if sin be defined as walking according to the flesh (Romans 8:4), it should be clear that not one of us is obligated to the flesh (Romans 8:12, kjv, nlt) and that sin shall not have dominion over us because we are not under the law but under grace (Romans 6:14).

 

[Tenchi]

It should be clear that if sin be defined as "missing the mark" of perfection that we all fall short.

If it be defined as the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), it should be clear that none of us can keep the law (Galatians 6:13).

Well, the first definition of sin seems to me unnecessary to observe. The second, I would add that we don't keep the Law perfectly, no, but Christians can certainly fulfill its righteousness (Romans 8:4) far better than they often believe they can (in the power of the Holy Spirit - Romans 8:13).

But if sin be defined as walking according to the flesh (Romans 8:4), it should be clear that not one of us is obligated to the flesh (Romans 8:12, kjv, nlt) and that sin shall not have dominion over us because we are not under the law but under grace (Romans 6:14).

It seems to me a bit...semantical to distinguish "walking according to the flesh" from failing to keep God's commands. Doing so is a bit like distinguishing a lake of water from the waves that form on its surface. Essentially, to speak of waves on the lake is to speak of the lake itself. Likewise, to speak of a fleshly life is to speak of disobedience to God's Law.

In any case, it seems, at bottom that we agree that Self and the sin it produces has been rendered powerless on the cross of Christ. Good news, eh?

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi Tenchi.

I think that there is a difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.

In the letter of it, we are in violation if we do not wear tassels on our garments. Or, if we violate the food laws.

In the spirit of the law, it is about being obedient to the Holy Spirit on a moment-by-moment basis; and not catering to the flesh or sinful nature.

A person can be disobedient to the letter of the law and yet obedient to the spirit of it (see John 5:16-18, Hebrews 4:15).

In the spirit of the law, food laws have been abolished (see 1 Timothy 4:1-6). And we certainly do not need to wear tassels on our garments.

But the letter of the law is for those who seek to save themselves through law-keeping, obedience, works, or personal merit (see Galatians 3:10). For such, absolute perfect obedience to the law is required of them from conception into eternity (again, Galatians 3:10).

 

[justbyfaith]

In the spirit of the law, it is about being obedient to the Holy Spirit on a moment-by-moment basis; and not catering to the flesh or sinful nature.

i.e. walking according to the love of the Lord that is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit (Romans 5:5).