Bible Study Can someone become unsaved?

[Adams son]

Re: Can someone become unsaved

These versus have often made me wonder about salvation being taken away. It seems like its saying this , at least to me.

Hebrews
( 4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, (5 )and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, (6 ) if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Hebrews 10:26
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.

It is not a matter of salvation being "taken away" (the Eph 2:8 salvation event) but falling short of the salvation event which occurs when Jesus comes again. See verse 9:28 in Hebrews.

 

[Blazin Bones]

Hey DIME, I think we are more or less on the same page. What you're saying is that someone can give salvation away. What I'm saying is someone who gives it away, was never truly saved in their heart to begin with. The Bible tells us we need Both. The heart has to accept the gift to truly have salvation.

 

[Khristeeanos]

Hey DIME, I think we are more or less on the same page. What you're saying is that someone can give salvation away. What I'm saying is someone who gives it away, was never truly saved in their heart to begin with. The Bible tells us we need Both. The heart has to accept the gift to truly have salvation.

Yes, I see exactly what you are saying. And the Bible does speak of what you said:

1 John 2:19
They went out from among us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

We see here that this group of people claimed to be followers of Christ, yet according to John, they were never really Christians.

But this passage is only speaking of a specific group of people, not a blanket statement that may say, "Anybody and everybody who had belonged to us would never have left us."

I personally believe that we are saved by grace through faith just like Ephesians 2 and many other passages say.

I look at it like this:

God provides the grace
We provide the faith
Result is salvation of the soul

I by no means think that saying that we need to add faith to God's grace cheapens the salvation process or that our faith is accounted as a work of merit to earn salvation.

It just means that God loves us and wants us to love Him back. I think that the religion of Christianity is much more easy to understand than people make it out to be.

We have all these people who try so hard to understand the deepest meaning of each passage and it really doesn't matter. Jesus didn't say the most important commandment was to have the correct doctrine or to out think the other theologians.

He said it was to love God and to love others.

If someone believes in OSAS, it doesn't mean that they aren't a Christian or that they use OSAS as a license to sin at will. I have a lot of very close friends who believe OSAS and yet we get along great! I had a friend over here the other day at my house who was in my wedding and I was in his. He believes in OSAS and I don't. We have had discussions about it and that is fine.

He is still a great friend of mine and we get along great! He is a dear brother of mine and I look forward to seeing him in heaven.

For me OSAS is not a doctrine to be divisive on or as a test of fellowship.

 

[serapha]

, I believe that the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Hi there!



One cannot ride the fence between calvinism and arminianism.... Either you keep your salvation or you can lose it... but there's no gray area in the middle.


~serapha~

 

[Khristeeanos]

, I believe that the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Hi there!

One cannot ride the fence between calvinism and arminianism.... Either you keep your salvation or you can lose it... but there's no gray area in the middle.

Yes, I agree with you. It seems that you misunderstand what I am saying.

Some people put all emphasis on God and therefore remove all human responsibility.

Others put all emphasis on man and remove God from the salvation that He alone provides.

There is a balance which I feel is the Biblical position.

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

The way I look at is like this, a view that has been shared on this topic:

If one truly accepts Jesus by faith and has a changed heart then they are saved always. When considering the question of once saved always saved a friend of mind pointed out these verses:

Ephesians 1:13-14 (New American Standard Bible):
13“In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvationâ€â€having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,â€Â
14“who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.â€Â

John 10:25-29 (New American Standard Bible):
25“Jesus answered them, ‘I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me.’â€Â
26“‘But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.’â€Â
27“‘My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;’â€Â
28“and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.’â€Â
29“¢â‚¬ËœMy Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.’â€Â

 

[Khristeeanos]

My main objection to OSAS is simple.

1. What happened to the angels who sinned and were cast out of heaven if OSAS is true?

2. What happened to Adam & Eve who were in the Garden of Eden of OSAS is true?

3. What happened to the Jews who were in a covenant with God if OSAS is true?

4. What happened to Judas Iscariot if OSAS is true?

5. Why does Paul repeatedly warn Christians of the danger of sin still being able to seperate them from God if OSAS is true?


Here is just one place where he warns Christians that they could still miss out on heaven:

Galatians 5:19-21
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

This is so clear! It is a warning directed to Christians ("you") that they could still end up not inheriting the kingdom of God.

 

[evanman]

Christ warns believers of the possibility of having one's name blotted out of the Book of Life.

Re 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[Eve777]

Why would the author of Hebrews do such a thing?

He didn't....the book of Hebrews is about going on to maturity and not camping out at salvation...he warns them about becoming so complacent they forget about serving the Lord....he wants them to come away from just the milk of the word and move on the meat of the word...it is a warning, not about their salavation but about growing up in the Lord...

 

[serapha]

My main objection to OSAS is simple.

1. What happened to the angels who sinned and were cast out of heaven if OSAS is true?


God didn't create angels with a plan of redemption should they fall. Angels can never be redeemed. That is one reason why man is on a higher spiritual plane than angels are.


2. What happened to Adam & Eve who were in the Garden of Eden of OSAS is true?

Were Adam and Eve redeemed in the Garden of Eden? Was there a confession of their sin to God and a request for forgiveness?

3. What happened to the Jews who were in a covenant with God if OSAS is true?



Salvation has always been individual. God had a covenant with the Jewish people, they made individual sacrifices for their sins.

4. What happened to Judas Iscariot if OSAS is true?


And where is Judas' profession of faith in the Bible?


5. Why does Paul repeatedly warn Christians of the danger of sin still being able to seperate them from God if OSAS is true?


Here is just one place where he warns Christians that they could still miss out on heaven:

Galatians 5:19-21
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

This is so clear! It is a warning directed to Christians ("you") that they could still end up not inheriting the kingdom of God.

You mean that salvation is based upon working hard to avoid those sins and that believers really aren't saved by faith?


Salvation is a process. When someone declares that one may lose their salvation, exactly which part of the process is lost? The redemption? The baptism? The spiritual journey? The destination?


All of it?


Paul was making a distinction in the use of the Greek term that is used (losely here) for "who live like this"... is a word meaning the habitual practice and not the occasional practice. The use of that term would indicate that the person is unchanged, not a new creation in Christ for Christ changes the old sin nature, removes the original sin, and we become a new creation in and through Christ.


~serapha~

 

[serapha]

Christ warns believers of the possibility of having one's name blotted out of the Book of Life.

Re 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Hi there!

:D

How do you get the word "man"in that passage to be translated to "Christian" thus implying that a Christian may lose their reconciliation to God?


~serapha~

 

[Blazin Bones]

, I believe that the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Hi there!



One cannot ride the fence between calvinism and arminianism.... Either you keep your salvation or you can lose it... but there's no gray area in the middle.


~serapha~

There is ton's of grey area in the middle, except I'm not sure if He's gray or an area. God is in charge not a doctrine.

 

[Khristeeanos]

serapha,

We are much closer than you think on this doctrine. I don't believe that if we slip up and worry about something (Jesus does say that we shouldn't worry so I assume it is a sin) that God cuts us off from salvation and we must repent or we would go to he(double hockeysticks).

I am saying that if we choose to reject our faith (the same faith that the Bible says saves us) that we reject God.

Even Kirk Camerons website understands the relationship I am saying here, and he is a pro-OSAS guy.

link

Are you a child of God? Is God your Father? Are you sure? To be mistaken on this point, is to make the greatest blunder of your life. Has God been made to be your Father through the divine adoption? There is no other way. You and I are not natural born children of the King. We were born as filthy outcasts, enemies of God by nature, confirming our exclusion from God's family by our continual sinful behavior. If left to our natural selves, we would, even today, run headlong down the path of iniquity, filling up our sins and bringing upon ourselves the wrath of God to the uttermost. We do not, by nature, exemplify the character of the Heavenly Father. Rather, we are "by nature, children of wrath," "sons of disobedience," and children of another father (John 8:44).

But if we have heard the voice of the Savior to "Deny yourself daily, pick up your cross and follow Me," if we have forsaken sin, thrown ourselves into the arms of the Almighty to be cleansed and set apart for His glory, and been made fit for service in His Kingdom -- then, and only then, can we be assured that we belong to Him. If you have been truly born from above, grafted into the Vine, and see the buds of love and obedience pushing through the tough skin of your old nature, then you can rejoice with the apostle Paul and say, "I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord" because God has adopted you into his family and made you his very own child. Oh, what a precious privilege it is to have "received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father."

It is clear that he is saying that salvation is not a head belief, but an entire lifestyle that can only be lived by a real saving faith. One that produces fruit from the Spirit of God.

This is what I believe and you should have no problem accepting this portion. And if this salvation comes by faith, why not accept the obvious conclusion that if we choose to reject faith that we reject the source of our eternal salvation?

 

[DrDiotte]

23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.

 

[Michael A Disciple]

All who are not overcomers will be blotted out of the Book Of Life.

3:1 "And to the angel of the assembly in Sardis write: He who has the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars says these things: "I know your works, that you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead.

3:2 Wake up, and keep the things that remain, which you were about to throw away, for I have found no works of yours perfected before my God.

3:3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If therefore you won't watch, I will come as a thief, and you won't know what hour I will come upon you.

3:4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that did not defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.

3:5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rev. 3:1-5

Defiled garments means sin in the life. Those whose garments are defiled will not be counted worthy.

 

[archer]

If he knew you before the foundations of the world. Why would he change his mind? Salvations is not of works and if you believe that you salvation can be taken away then you are basing your salvation on works.

 

[Khristeeanos]

If he knew you before the foundations of the world. Why would he change his mind?

Who said that God was changing His mind about anything? I never did. I have maintained that we are saved by faith.

Salvations is not of works and if you believe that you salvation can be taken away then you are basing your salvation on works.

Please don't misrepresent my position and make false accusations to "prove" your position.

I have not said one word about works at all. I will say it as clearly as possible. Our works have nothing to do with gaining or maintaining salvation.

 

[serapha]

The doctrine of eternal security....

Hi there!

:smt039

Here's an example that I use concerning pre-destination, free will, and osas





Let's say I am a cucumber. God created me as a cucumber and I will be a cucumber until the day I die. God predestined me to be His cucumber and when I believed that... God plucked me from the vine (world), washed the dirt (sin) off me, and set me on solid ground to begin working.

That's predestination.

I was created to be God's cucumber and that is exactly what I am. Other cucumbers may never believe that God predestined them to be cucumbers on solid ground, so they just stay in the dirt never believing that God will pick them up out of the dirt.

As a cucumber, I follow in believer's baptism ... so I get dunked in the brine (water AND spirit)... and I come out a pickle...

Now ... I can't ever get rid of being that pickle (eternal security) But as a pickle, I can choose to be a pickle working for the Kingdom, or I can choose to sit there and rot my life away. Either way, I am a pickle.

That's free will.

In any case, once I become a pickle, I can never go back to being the same type of cucumber that I began to be in my earlier life. As a pickle, I am still a cucumber, but a newly created type of cucumber called a pickle because I've been changed.... not just rearranged, but a whole new product.


~serapha~

 

[serapha]

Pssttt!


And they don't shelf cucumbers and pickles together in the store.



~serapha~

 

[evanman]

Christ warns believers of the possibility of having one's name blotted out of the Book of Life.

Re 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Hi there!

:D

How do you get the word "man"in that passage to be translated to "Christian" thus implying that a Christian may lose their reconciliation to God?


~serapha~

To have one's name "blotted" out of the Book of life means that a person must have had their name registered there in the first place!