Bible Study Can someone become unsaved?

[serapha]

Christ warns believers of the possibility of having one's name blotted out of the Book of Life.

Re 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Hi there!

:D

How do you get the word "man"in that passage to be translated to "Christian" thus implying that a Christian may lose their reconciliation to God?




~serapha~

To have one's name "blotted" out of the Book of life means that a person must have had their name registered there in the first place!

Hi there!

:smt039


But that doesn't tell me how the "man" becomes the word "Christian". Now, you are using the term "believer"... where is that concept drawn from?

How do you know that this passage is referring to believers only?

The preceeding noun to "man" is "everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of the book". Are you implying that no unbeliever will hear the Revelation of Jesus Christ?

You can't say that this is a time when only believers are in presence because in verse 17, it says, "whoever is thirsty, let him come, and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life". Eternal life is being offered to the thirsty soul who will receive it.

~serapha~

 

[serapha]

But I do agree, that everyone's name begins in the book of life... the innocent baby's name is in the book of life, but when sin enters that child's heart after the age of accountability, the name is blotted out until they are redeemed, reconciled to God once again.


~serapha~

 

[Khristeeanos]

Revelation 22 is not the only place where we see the book of life:

Exodus 32:33
The LORD replied to Moses, 'whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot out of my book.'

Psalm 69:28
May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.

Revelation 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life.

Philippians 4:3
I ask that you, loyal yokefellow, help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

Luke 10:20
However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.

Hebrews 12:22-23
But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven.

Daniel 12:1
At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered.

Revelation 21:27
Nothing impure will enter [heaven], nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Revelation 20:15
If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[serapha]

Hello et. al...


:smt039


And here's a real winner...


Revelation 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life.


Never never never never....


<grins>


:smt041 :smt041 :smt041 :smt041 :smt041



http://whosoeverwill.ca/hymnredeemed.htm

 

[destiny]

Jesus said, "He who (overcomes)"...A condition.

 

[Khristeeanos]

And here's a real winner...


Revelation 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life.


Never never never never....

I agree with destiny here. Plus, I quoted many other verses that deal with the book of life and those were ignored because a few of them proved the exact opposite of what you believe.

Exodus 32:33
The LORD replied to Moses, 'whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot out of my book.'

Psalm 69:28
May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.

It should be completely obvious now that if we sin, our name will be blotted from the book of life. These passages have nothing to do with the age of accountability, they are talking about people who are a lot older than 12 or 13 or 14 years old.

Remember, it says "whoever has sinned."

And if your name isn't in the book of life, you are not a Christian:

Revelation 20:15
If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[archer]

Please don't misrepresent my position and make false accusations to "prove" your position.

False accusations? Who said I was misrepresenting your position?
How many times does a person have to crucify Christ before they are fit to enter Heaven? How many suits of armour does a person have to have stored in his closet? To me if a person has to ask to be saved daily then he is basing his salvation on works. Yes works! Grace is what saves us not works.
Let me ask you this...... If you have an argument and show your anger, is that not a sin? And then before you have a chance to repent you die in a car wreck.... Are you going to hell because you became unsaved because you sinned?

 

[archer]

John 6:37 Him that cometh to me I WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT.

Jude 24 Now unto him that is able TO KEEP YOU from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy

Ephesians 5:30 For we are MEMBERS OF HIS BODY, of his flesh, and of his bones.

 

[Khristeeanos]

Please don't misrepresent my position and make false accusations to "prove" your position.

False accusations? Who said I was misrepresenting your position?

I did, and you just quoted me on it.

How many times does a person have to crucify Christ before they are fit to enter Heaven?

Misleading question that shows a lack of understanding of the conditional security position.

How many suits of armour does a person have to have stored in his closet?

Misleading question that shows a lack of understanding of the conditional security position.

To me if a person has to ask to be saved daily then he is basing his salvation on works. Yes works!

Misleading statement that shows a lack of understanding of the conditional security position.

I have never said a word about works and I certainly have never said that we have to be saved daily like you claim.

Grace is what saves us not works.

Well, grace is just half of the equation. We are saved by grace through faith.

Let me ask you this...... If you have an argument and show your anger, is that not a sin? And then before you have a chance to repent you die in a car wreck.... Are you going to hell because you became unsaved because you sinned?

First of all, nobody is going to hell. They are going to the lake of fire which is not hell.

Second, your question again shows a lack of understanding of the conditional security viewpoint, which is Biblical.

Grace is not just do as you wish (live a sinful and immoral life) and think that you are ok. Grace is God allowing us the ability to be saved from our sins (different from being saved while still in our sins).

 

[Khristeeanos]

John 6:37 Him that cometh to me I WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT.

This was spoken to those that come to Jesus, not ones that quit coming to Jesus! Plus, the term 'drive away' shows a forceful act of denial. He is saying that He is faithful to stay with those that come to Him. Also, this verse is for those who are, for the first time, coming to Jesus.

Jude 24 Now unto him that is able TO KEEP YOU from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy

Of course God is able to keep you, but we also have to be willing to stay, that is called faith.

Ephesians 5:30 For we are MEMBERS OF HIS BODY, of his flesh, and of his bones.

I don't understand why this is an apparent OSAS proving verse. I am a member of Christ's body, but I can always throw away my faith and choose to walk away.

 

[serapha]

Hello et. al.



:smt039


Salvation is past, present, and future.
I was saved in the past by justification.
I am being saved in the present by sanctification,
and I will be saved in the future by glorification.



And what am I saved from?
In the past, I was saved from the penalty of sin.
In the present, I am saved from the power of sin,
and in the future, I will be saved from the very presence of sin.

I agree with destiny here. Plus, I quoted many other verses that deal with the book of life and those were ignored because a few of them proved the exact opposite of what you believe.

Okay, here's how we determine whose side wins...


We add up the number of pro OSAS passages and we tally up the opposing con OSAS passages and whoever has the most verses wins?


:smt023

Exodus 32:33
The LORD replied to Moses, 'whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot out of my book.'

Let start here... whoever has sinned is a qal perfect of the verb meaning that it is a completed action... who has already sinned....

"I will blot"... is qal imperfect.. meaning ... the action is not complete.

"The perfect expresses the "fact", the imperfect adds colour and movement by suggesting the "process" preliminary to its completion....

These relate not so much as to one occasion, as to a
continued condition....

The imperfect is used to express the "future", referring not only to an action which is about to be accomplished but one which has not yet begun: " (BLB)

Certainly, the last statement applies to this passage since the Lord gave His Angel to lead them. God administered justice for the act when the text says, "the LORD plagued the people, because they made the calf...."

The transgressions of the Hebrew children were to be purged before God said ... "Depart and go.... and I will an angel before thee." Their administered justice was the plague not removing their name from the book.

That God gave His Angel... is an evidence of the forgiveness of the sin.
God would not be sending His angel to direct a disobedient servant.


~serapha~

 

[serapha]

P.S. It's an evidence that you can "keep going back to the well of grace"... the fellowshp may suffer as in the plague, but the relationship with God remained intact.


~serapha~

 

[Khristeeanos]

Okay, here's how we determine whose side wins...


We add up the number of pro OSAS passages and we tally up the opposing con OSAS passages and whoever has the most verses wins?

OK Great!!!

Here is the only pro-OSAS passage in the entire Bible:

Genesis 3
The Fall of Man
1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

That's right!!! OSAS is a lie from the devil.

Here are the anti-OSAS passages in the Bible:

Genesis 1:1-Revelation 22:21 (minus the above referenced verses)

 

[Restin]

Angel....forgives?

That God gave His Angel... is an evidence of the forgiveness of the sin.
God would not be sending His angel to direct a disobedient servant.

serapha, this text is a bit different than we generally think --

• Exodus 23:20-21
  "Behold, I am going to send an angel before you to guard you along the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21 "Be on your guard before him and obey his voice; do not be rebellious toward him, for he will not pardon your transgression, since My name is in him.
  NASU, w/emphasis

........Restin

 

[serapha]

Re: Angel....forgives?

That God gave His Angel... is an evidence of the forgiveness of the sin.
God would not be sending His angel to direct a disobedient servant.

serapha, this text is a bit different than we generally think --

• Exodus 23:20-21
  "Behold, I am going to send an angel before you to guard you along the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21 "Be on your guard before him and obey his voice; do not be rebellious toward him, for he will not pardon your transgression, since My name is in him.
  NASU, w/emphasis

........Restin

HI there!

You're in the wrong chapter.


~serapha~

 

[Blazin Bones]

Hey all, Let's try to bring the Tensions down a bit.

What are your takes on Matt 10:32-33?

MT 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
MT 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.[KJV]

Just something to chew on.

 

[Khristeeanos]

I was just trying to be funny that is all.

Sorry B/HC.

What are your takes on Matt 10:32-33?

MT 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
MT 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.[KJV]

Just something to chew on.

And this is repeated often in Scripture:

2 Timothy 2:
11Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him,
we will also live with him; 12if we endure,
we will also reign with him. If we disown him,
he will also disown us; 13if we are faithless,
he will remain faithful,
for he cannot disown himself.

 

[evanman]

Christ's warning to us shows us that the possibility of having one's name blotted out of the Book of Life exists.

 

[archer]

Dime,
Your sarcasm just makes me more grounded in what I believe. To me the test of what is Christ like is in how its presented. And Christ Emissaries do not make fun of or speak sarcastically to his Christian brothers.
As for me not being grounded........ Thats your opinion.
Paul makes it clear in chapter 7 of Romans that we are not in control of our destiny.There is a constant war going on in our bodies. In verse 24 there is no mention of you, we, us or any reference to anything we can do to save ourselves. Paul plainly says that even though you are saved you still have sin dwelling in you. Grace, brother is what saved me. Salvation is a gift and it is UNCONDITIONAL. Once I was saved I was released from the law and a new man was born. I became alive and no longer was I dead. If salvation was conditional there would be so much confusion in Heaven. God would have to have this unlimited supply of white out stored in Heaven.
My question is, how can a dead man make a choice? Do you have the ability to quicken your own heart? Why is it so important to you that you have to have the "I" factor in your relationship with Christ? Remember "I" is in the middle of sin.
My suggestion to you is study the true meaning of Grace.

 

[archer]

Jonah 2:9- Salvation is of the LORD. Here we see that the Lord does the work of salvation. Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 'He did'; again, God does the doing. Notice that this verse states those who are justified, i.e. saved, are also glorified. Glorified where? On earth? No, they are glorified in heaven. In God's eyes Christians are already seen as glorified. John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. Jesus is doing the work here of salvation. Notice again the double reference to permanent salvation- 'they shall never perish'; 'neither shall any man pluck the out of my hand'. How much more plain can we get that salvation cannot be lost? And from Jesus' own words.