Bible Study Can someone become unsaved?

[Khristeeanos]

Explain to me how you can loose your salvation...... Maybe that will clear up the confusion that is abounding here.

I have already done that. But here it is again.

The Bible clearly teaches that we are saved by grace through faith.

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His craftsmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Some use this passage to say that God also provides the faith, but this can't be the case, because there are other places where we are told that it is our faith.

There are too many passages to list on this topic, but here is a link that shows over and over that Jesus says that it is our faith. One particular example is:

Mark 5:34
He said to her, “Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering.â€Â

Now, if we are save by our faith, what happens if we reject that faith?

1 Timothy 1:5-6
The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk.

1 Timothy 1:18-19
Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight, holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have shipwrecked their faith.

The equasion is quite simple:

grace + faith = salvation
grace - faith = no salvation

 

[serapha]

Hello et. al.

:smt039


Why is it that anyone would think that God cannot do a perfect work?


If one is a "true believer", then there is a conversion in the heart, they become a new creature in Christ... born again...

Once the spirit of man is born again, it doesn't "die" again. There isn't a single passage of scripture that says man must be born again and again and again, but just once.

One isn't baptized again and again and again.... nor does one get redeemed again and again and again. Christ doesn't die again and again and again for me, once was enough.

Turning away from God might break the fellowship, but the relationship remains intact.... If I am "born" again, then I will have the same spiritual Father forever. My parentage doesn't change, and therefore, the relationship doesn't change either. I am the spiritual child of God forever.

God doesn't do things half-way, nor is God a God of yo-yo actions.... saved today, lost tomorrow, saved today, lost tomorrow.... Mercy, that's a God of "chance", and I would be better off plucking petals off a daisy!

I'm not playing Russian Roulette over my salvation day by day... my salvation is a process. To think for one second that being "saved" or "born again" is a part of the process that can be lost only to be reconciled to God again and again simply crucifies Christ again and again signifying that Calvary wasn't enough. It is either under the blood, or it isn't.


I don't live by

"He loves me"
"He loves me not"
"He loves me"
"He loves me not"

God is unchanging... if He says I am saved, then He isn't going to come back and say I am "unsaved"


~serapha~

 

[serapha]

Explain to me how you can loose your salvation...... Maybe that will clear up the confusion that is abounding here.

I have already done that. But here it is again.

The Bible clearly teaches that we are saved by grace through faith.

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His craftsmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Some use this passage to say that God also provides the faith, but this can't be the case, because there are other places where we are told that it is our faith.

There are too many passages to list on this topic, but here is a link that shows over and over that Jesus says that it is our faith. One particular example is:

[quote:ff1e5]Mark 5:34
He said to her, “Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering.â€Â

Now, if we are save by our faith, what happens if we reject that faith?

1 Timothy 1:5-6
The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk.

1 Timothy 1:18-19
Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight, holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have shipwrecked their faith.

The equasion is quite simple:

grace + faith = salvation
grace - faith = no salvation[/quote:ff1e5]

HI there!

:smt039


Rather than pick and choose points in the Bible that you interpret to go again the Doctrine of Eternal Security, why don't you explain to those who believe in the Doctrien of Eternal Security why those passages that give the assurance of eternal security are wrong.

Maybe you can explain why John 3:16 doesn't mean a guarantee of eternal life?



BTW... the Timothy passages don't disprove the Doctrine of Eternal Security. They simply indicate that one might drift in their faith, but I learned long ago that faltering faith was not failed faith.


As to your declaration that shipwrecked means that it is destroyed...

Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

.... Made shipwreck (enauaghsan). First aorist active indicative of nauagew, old verb from nauagoß (shipwrecked, nauß, ship, agnumi, to break), to break a ship to pieces. In N.T. only here and 2 Corinthians 11:25. Concerning the faith (peri thn pistin). Rather, "concerning their faith" (the article here used as a possessive pronoun, a common Greek idiom).

Does anyone NOT believe that a ship can be repaired? To be set afloat again into deep and stormy waters? To carry the load again?


Oh, and what a good argument that John Gill has... and why didn't I think of it???

concerning faith have made shipwreck;
which designs not the grace, but the doctrine of faith, as before observed, which men may profess, and fall off from, and entirely drop and lose. Though supposing faith as a grace is meant, the phrase, "have made shipwreck of it", is not strong enough to prove the total and final falling away of true believers, could such be thought to be here meant; since persons may be shipwrecked, and not lost, the Apostle Paul was thrice shipwrecked, and each time saved; besides, as there is a true and unfeigned, so there is a feigned and counterfeit faith, which may be in persons who have no true grace, and may be shipwrecked, so as to be lost.

So one can be shipwrecked by surrounding circumstance, but still live to tell the story of how they hung on....


Well, glory!

:smt041 :smt041 :smt041 :smt041 :smt041


Thanks dimi... I would never have taken the time to look at this passage, but it has certainly been a blessing to learn the true meaning of this passage.


My faith can falter, but not fail, and I can live to tell the story...


The soul of man is like a ship that sails on the sea of time,
The storms may come and the winds may blow, and rock this ship of mine,
But the reason my ship will never sink and today it's still afloat,
My compass is His Precious Word and Jesus pilots my boat!
.
(He Pilots My Ship, Ronny Hinson)

 

[Khristeeanos]

You never did respond to my post on page 5 like I asked.

Once you do that, I will respond to your previous post.

We will never make it anywhere in discussing this doctrine if you refuse to respond to my posts.


Oh, and hi there yourself.

 

[serapha]

Whoooh Nelly!!!

Before we move on, why not attempt to discuss my post. I spent a lot of time answering each point and would appreciate it if I was not completely ignored.

You never did respond to my post on page 5 like I asked.

Once you do that, I will respond to your previous post.

We will never make it anywhere in discussing this doctrine if you refuse to respond to my posts.


Oh, and hi there yourself.

Hi there!

:smt039


I don't know if you are addressing me personally or not, but with a reference to "hi there" I would take that as a suggestion that you are addressing me personally with a demand for my attention. No one has to respond to your postings. Historically, you are not the best at dialogue. If people chose to ignore your postings, maybe there is a reason.

In looking back at the posting on page 5, you didn't quote me, so why is my participation in your belittlement of another member important?


As I read through the posting there was "sarcasm"..... I know I don't want to be on the receiving end of your sarcasm.


Demand whatever you want.... Sit and wait .... I'm moving on.


I would prefer that you post professionally in general, and not personally towards me individually in the future.

Again, can we get the topic of the thread off ~serapha~ and back on the topic???????


~serapha~

 

[Blazin Bones]

Okay, This thread is getting locked. Too much animosity. Feel free to reopen the topic, but this thread is closed.