If one could lose his salvation, he would have to be re-born again, or re-regenerated by the Holy Spirit. Try as I might, I cannot find one verse stating this. And we have Scripture stating the opposite of this- that once one gains salvation, or has been cleansed from sin, he never needs to be re-cleansed! And this verse is right from Jesus. John 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. What He meant was that one could not get saved again- 'ye are clean'. To be sure that this verse refers to salvation, we have a reference in Titus illustrating the link between the word 'wash' and salvation: Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost does the work of salvation, not man).
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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Bible Study Can someone become unsaved?
- Thread starter Blazin Bones
- Start date
G
greyfeather
Guest
Can someone become unsaved
archer,
These verses which I quoted from the bible before seem to me still to show you can loose your salvation.
Hebrews
( 4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, (5 )and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, (6 ) if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Hebrews 10:26
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.
archer,
These verses which I quoted from the bible before seem to me still to show you can loose your salvation.
Hebrews
( 4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, (5 )and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, (6 ) if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Hebrews 10:26
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.
K
Khristeeanos
Guest
Lighten up, I said I was just being funny. Trying to lighten up just like the moderator said.archer said:
We are supposed to enjoy the life that we have. If you are offended at my teasing, then I apologize and ask that you forgive me.
Not sure what you are talking about. How about quote me so that I can make a proper defense of myself.
Let's read Romans 7:24:
So what is Paul saying? Why did he make such a statement and what was his answer to his question?
What point is Paul trying to make here? I believe what he is saying is that when he was a sinner and had a sinful nature before he was a Christian. And does he still have it? Well, yes, but not in the same sense. He now has a strong desire to do what God wants whereas he before had a strong desire to do what other people told him God wants.
And he finished up the question by saing that he was saved from that body of death! Paul lived a holy life after becoming a Christian and demanded that other Christians do the same.
Hey! Me too! :D
HMMMM....what does the Bible say?
If you don't believe, you won't be saved. Belief is a condition for salavation.
Belief and confession is required for salvation - these are conditions to receive salvation.
This text says we are saved IF (a condition) we abide in Christ and is a parallel passage to:
Note again that we are saved only if we abide in Christ. This is a condition.
We are only saved if we hold firmly. Another condition of salvation.
Yes, me too!
Do what? I really don't understand what you are saying. I just showed you verses that use the word "IF" in them and say we are only saved "IF" we meet the condition. Besides, none of us know what heaven is like or will be like.
Yes, and in the word "team" there is a backwards me, but that doesn't matter. A play on words is by no means a proper way of finding proper Biblical doctrine.
Your point assumes that I believe that I believe that I save myself or "quicken my own heart" or that I focus on myself and that is just simply not true. I focus on Jesus first and only.
Didn't the moderator already close one thread because of language like this? And didn't you start this post by saying:
Now I will respond to your next post:
Yes, I don't save myself, that is for sure. And thank God for that.
Yes, I fully agree. I am not sure why this is seen as a potential problem.
Yes Jesus did say that! And thank God! I need to know that I am secure in Christ. But look closely at verse 27 which gives the CONDITION that is required to be under the promise of verse 28: belief and following Christ!
What about those people who turn away from Christ and no longer follow Him?
Such were disciples of Christ and therefore saved, but they turned away and forsake Christ.
What happened to them?
G
greyfeather
Guest
Can someone become unsaved
Judy,
Ok I see what you mean when I read that verse. Would you still maintain your salvation if you got angry with God. Say if someone you love dies in an accident or from a horrible diease and you become angry with God. I know some people have given up and say I dont belive in God anymore when things like this happens its greif talking , but will these people loose their salvation.? or will they maintain it?
Judy,
Ok I see what you mean when I read that verse. Would you still maintain your salvation if you got angry with God. Say if someone you love dies in an accident or from a horrible diease and you become angry with God. I know some people have given up and say I dont belive in God anymore when things like this happens its greif talking , but will these people loose their salvation.? or will they maintain it?
Judy
Member
Some will go out from us because they were never really saved in the first place.
Certainly true Christians can backslide, by that I mean they can regress into a period of spiritual dullness or disobedience. Those who do so will bring God’s discipline (Hebrews 12:6-11). That's because God disciplines those who are true sons (v. 8). But that doesn't mean that they lost their salvation.
While we are still in this body we will sin but it is what you do when you sin. Are you sorry and repent? We all have a thron in our side a weakness that Satan will time and time again tempt you with. For some of us it is drinking for other it is sex ( watching porno...ect) and some it is lying .... the list goes on. If you pay attention to your weakness you will see that is what Satan uses to temp you into sinning. But the more you resist that temptation the stronger you will be in Christ. If you resist the Devil he will flee from you.
But none of this means you lose your salvation.
- 1 John 2:19. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.[/*:m:b9cc6]
Certainly true Christians can backslide, by that I mean they can regress into a period of spiritual dullness or disobedience. Those who do so will bring God’s discipline (Hebrews 12:6-11). That's because God disciplines those who are true sons (v. 8). But that doesn't mean that they lost their salvation.
While we are still in this body we will sin but it is what you do when you sin. Are you sorry and repent? We all have a thron in our side a weakness that Satan will time and time again tempt you with. For some of us it is drinking for other it is sex ( watching porno...ect) and some it is lying .... the list goes on. If you pay attention to your weakness you will see that is what Satan uses to temp you into sinning. But the more you resist that temptation the stronger you will be in Christ. If you resist the Devil he will flee from you.
But none of this means you lose your salvation.
Who imparts salvation? Who is it from and who gives salvation? Clearly, it is God who grants salvation. Salvation is a work of the Holy Spirit upon a repentant sinner. Conversely, we see that man does not nor cannot do anything for his salvation- his part is to only believe by faith. Does a dead person have the ability to repent?
An often-quoted passage that supposedly supports losing salvation is John Ch 15. Verse 6. if you look at this verse in context of the chapter we see that Jesus is talking about bearing fruit, not salvation:
15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your
: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Notice the progression of fruit-bearing: no fruit; fruit; more fruit; much fruit; fruit remains. Not one reference to salvation.
Again, we can look at other Scripture to support this. Jesus uses the words 'fire' and 'burned' in verse 6. In 1 Corinthians we have the famous verse: 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Clearly this supports John 15:6 as referring to a loss of rewards and not salvation. Notice that this verse does say explicitly that his salvation will be preserved! It clearly distinguishes between works and salvation.
Romans 4:2-4 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about- but not before God. What does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. Again, a clear verse no one has anything to boast about that he did works to gain salvation.
Look at all the verses that mention how to be saved. It is always God/Jesus who does the work. The believer only needs to believe and trust by faith. Nowhere in these verses does it mention something man has to do. So how can any other verse say that if man doesn't do something, he will lose his salvation?
All the verses believers fear they fear because they believe it might pertain to them losing their salvation. So they believe they must do something to not lose their salvation. But this clearly violates Ephesians 2:8-9. God knows better- He knows that left to our own devices, we will falter time and time again. How could Jesus exclaim on the cross, "It is finished' if it was not really finished if a believer must do/not do something/works/etc. to maintain his salvation? Jesus could've only exclaimed, "wait and see..." if this were so. But so many scripture make it plain that the moment we believe and place our trust in Him that we have gained permanent salvation.
An often-quoted passage that supposedly supports losing salvation is John Ch 15. Verse 6. if you look at this verse in context of the chapter we see that Jesus is talking about bearing fruit, not salvation:
15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your
: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Notice the progression of fruit-bearing: no fruit; fruit; more fruit; much fruit; fruit remains. Not one reference to salvation.
Again, we can look at other Scripture to support this. Jesus uses the words 'fire' and 'burned' in verse 6. In 1 Corinthians we have the famous verse: 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Clearly this supports John 15:6 as referring to a loss of rewards and not salvation. Notice that this verse does say explicitly that his salvation will be preserved! It clearly distinguishes between works and salvation.
Romans 4:2-4 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about- but not before God. What does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. Again, a clear verse no one has anything to boast about that he did works to gain salvation.
Look at all the verses that mention how to be saved. It is always God/Jesus who does the work. The believer only needs to believe and trust by faith. Nowhere in these verses does it mention something man has to do. So how can any other verse say that if man doesn't do something, he will lose his salvation?
All the verses believers fear they fear because they believe it might pertain to them losing their salvation. So they believe they must do something to not lose their salvation. But this clearly violates Ephesians 2:8-9. God knows better- He knows that left to our own devices, we will falter time and time again. How could Jesus exclaim on the cross, "It is finished' if it was not really finished if a believer must do/not do something/works/etc. to maintain his salvation? Jesus could've only exclaimed, "wait and see..." if this were so. But so many scripture make it plain that the moment we believe and place our trust in Him that we have gained permanent salvation.
Look at Christ's priestly prayer before His crucifixion. John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. First, Jesus prays for them that God has given Him. Is any prayer of Jesus' not answered? No. Secondly, Jesus prays that God keeps them. Third, Jesus mentions that He kept them while He was on earth. Fourth, Jesus repeats that He has kept them. Fifth, He states that none of them are lost! Here we have five references that those who are saved will not and cannot lose their salvation!
2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
1 Peter 1:4-5 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Here we have four references to permanent salvation. We have an inheritance that is incorruptible; undefiled; and fadeth not away. These terms indicate permanence and completeness. We are also kept by God's power until the last time.
2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
1 Peter 1:4-5 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Here we have four references to permanent salvation. We have an inheritance that is incorruptible; undefiled; and fadeth not away. These terms indicate permanence and completeness. We are also kept by God's power until the last time.
C
Collier
Guest
He says none are lost (present tense) not that they cannot become lost. Jesus actually says that one was lost (Judas). The Bible nowhere says that one can never lose their salvation. If fact, why do you think Paul wrote all the epistles?
- Consider the following passages that clearly teach a child of God can be lost: 1) Psalms 69:28 (compare with Philippians 4:3, Revelation 21:27 and Revelation 20:15). 2) John 15:3-6. 3) Romans 11:22. 4)1 Corinthians 10:1-14. 5) Galatians 5:4 (compare with Ephesians 2:8). 6) 1 Timothy 1:19-20. 7) Hebrews 4:1. 8) Hebrews 6:4-8 (compare with Hebrews 10:23). 9) Hebrews 10:22-27 and Hebrews 10:38-39. 10) 2 Peter 2:15-20. 11) 1 John 3:14-15.
K
Khristeeanos
Guest
Whoooh Nelly!!!
Before we move on, why not attempt to discuss my post. I spent a lot of time answering each point and would appreciate it if I was not completely ignored.
Before we move on, why not attempt to discuss my post. I spent a lot of time answering each point and would appreciate it if I was not completely ignored.
C
Collier
Guest
I'm sorry! What has that question have to do with the topic at hand? Just because there is no verse that says "you cannot lose salvation"? Again, why do you think Paul wrote his epistles? They are addressed to the Christians in a particular place and he exhorts them to remain faithful. Why if they could not be lost?
- In places like John 6:47, the Greek indicates an on-going belief. In other words, if we continue to believe then we continue to have eternal life, but what if we stop believing? Then according to this verse we would stop having eternal life.
Blazin Bones
Member
The issue that it all boils down to is whether the person who is in question ever devoted his heart to Christ. This is a question God will answer when Judgement comes.
I know a way not to worry about this thought.
"Love the Lord your God with all you heart, soul and Mind."
If you have professed Christ with your mouth and if your doing giving Christ your all, you can't lose your Salvation whether or not you are OSAS.
I know a way not to worry about this thought.
"Love the Lord your God with all you heart, soul and Mind."
If you have professed Christ with your mouth and if your doing giving Christ your all, you can't lose your Salvation whether or not you are OSAS.
K
Khristeeanos
Guest
I wish that 100% of Christians would really think about what you just said and take it to heart.Brutus/HisCatalyst said:
I could not agree any more than I do with your statement. Thank, B/HC.
I don't see anywhere in Scripture of born again believers losing salvation. Real saving faith cannot be lost, it is given by God to you. A faith without the work of the Holy Spirit is not a saving faith, as the Scripture tells us, even the demons believe...unless you believe the demons are saved?
S
Sara929
Guest
Lets not confuse salvation with saintification. One's not "saved" by the uddering or nodding to four or five questions, but by the regeneration and baptism of the Holy Spirit through Gods incredible Grace.
We may stumble and fall many times during the process of saintification while trapped in our earthly-flesh, but that doesn't mean God won't finish what He's started. In fact He promised us that He would.
Unfortunately, not everyone who nods yes that Jesus is Lord, has been regenerated and reborn of the Holy Spirit.
As odd as this may sound, I have a hard time understanding why we worry so much about "our salvation" instead of Worshipping, Praising, Adoring, and being Friends with Abba-Father in Heaven.
We may stumble and fall many times during the process of saintification while trapped in our earthly-flesh, but that doesn't mean God won't finish what He's started. In fact He promised us that He would.
Unfortunately, not everyone who nods yes that Jesus is Lord, has been regenerated and reborn of the Holy Spirit.
As odd as this may sound, I have a hard time understanding why we worry so much about "our salvation" instead of Worshipping, Praising, Adoring, and being Friends with Abba-Father in Heaven.
E
evanman
Guest
We are told that when someone falls away they cannot be renewed unto repentance.
There is no way back for such.
The question is NOT "How can this be?" the question is "How often does this happen?".
Personally I have to admit the possibility is there--However, noone who continues in the Faith need fear.
There is no way back for such.
The question is NOT "How can this be?" the question is "How often does this happen?".
Personally I have to admit the possibility is there--However, noone who continues in the Faith need fear.
Hbr 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hbr 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hbr 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.
This difficult passage is best understood in the context of 6:1-2; the writer is saying that if they do retreat back to Judaism, all the religious "repentance" in the world will do them no good - their forsaking of Jesus is tantamount to crucifying Him all over again; especially if they were to express their repentance in traditional Jewish forms: a resumption of animal sacrifice, denying the total work of Jesus for them on the cross.
Remember there is a great difference between falling and falling away; falling away isn't just falling into some sin, it is actually departing from Jesus Himself.
The message to these Christian who felt like giving up was clear: if you don't continue on with Jesus, don't suppose you will find salvation by just going on with the old basics that are common to Judaism; if you aren't saved in Jesus, you aren't saved!
If one falls like this, does it mean they can't repent? That God prohibits their repentance? Remember first that repentance itself is a gift from God; no one genuinely repents without God's enabling. Second, if one does repent, that in itself is evidence that they have not truly fallen away.
The idea is not that "if you fall away, you can't come back to Jesus ever," but that "if you turn your back on Jesus, don't expect to find salvation anywhere else, especially in the foundations of Judaism apart from the fullness of Jesus."
This passage has nothing to do with those who fear lest it condemns them. The presence of that anxiety, like the cry which betrayed the real mother in the days of Solomon, establishes beyond a doubt that you are not one that has fallen away beyond the possibility of renewal to repentance"
Hbr 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hbr 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.
This difficult passage is best understood in the context of 6:1-2; the writer is saying that if they do retreat back to Judaism, all the religious "repentance" in the world will do them no good - their forsaking of Jesus is tantamount to crucifying Him all over again; especially if they were to express their repentance in traditional Jewish forms: a resumption of animal sacrifice, denying the total work of Jesus for them on the cross.
Remember there is a great difference between falling and falling away; falling away isn't just falling into some sin, it is actually departing from Jesus Himself.
The message to these Christian who felt like giving up was clear: if you don't continue on with Jesus, don't suppose you will find salvation by just going on with the old basics that are common to Judaism; if you aren't saved in Jesus, you aren't saved!
If one falls like this, does it mean they can't repent? That God prohibits their repentance? Remember first that repentance itself is a gift from God; no one genuinely repents without God's enabling. Second, if one does repent, that in itself is evidence that they have not truly fallen away.
The idea is not that "if you fall away, you can't come back to Jesus ever," but that "if you turn your back on Jesus, don't expect to find salvation anywhere else, especially in the foundations of Judaism apart from the fullness of Jesus."
This passage has nothing to do with those who fear lest it condemns them. The presence of that anxiety, like the cry which betrayed the real mother in the days of Solomon, establishes beyond a doubt that you are not one that has fallen away beyond the possibility of renewal to repentance"