Can you continue to knowingly sin and remain a Christian?

[Jethro Bodine]

Isn't doing anything for salvation, like believing, one of your "works" ?

Paul clearly delineates the 'work' of believing that justifies, and why it justifies, from the works of righteousness that do not justify, and why they can't justify. Believing is the very thing that you are to 'do' to be justified.

 

[jeremiah1five]

"Backsliders" are not His sheep.
How can I tell?
They don't follow the Shepherd.

But thank God the Shepherd follow them.
In the valley.
And in the mountaintop.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Reconciliation sounds like you are headed in the right direction.

I don’t follow Arminius or Calvin, I follow Christ and His teachings.


I gave you scripture, and it’s up to you to believe and follow the teaching of Jesus Christ or not.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Jesus admonished His followers to remain “in Him”.


Here is how this same John instructs us to remain in Christ.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24





JLB

Like it or not, everyone is eventually labeled either an Arminian (free will) or a Calvinist (predestination).

But in my case it no longer applies. Calvin and Arminius fit the analogy of two blind men, one holding the tail and the other the trunk of an elephant. They can't agree what an elephant's appearance is because what they feel is radically different.

I saw the elephant body connecting the trunk and tail and can truthfully say there is no conflict between Peter's statement we are elected according to God's foreknowledge, and Paul who says it wasn't conditioned on anything in us now.

What if the Bible Teaches Both Predestination and Free Will? | End Time News

What if the Bible Teaches Both Predestination and Free Will? Scripture says divine election is conditioned "according to the foreknowledge of God" (1 Pt. 1:2): Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood...

endtimenews.net

As for eternal life being perishable, that is illogical so I don't agree with you Christians can temporary receive the gift of eternal life. Then they never were gifted with it at all.

Then the gospel should be, "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and maybe you will be saved." Or:

Instead of this:

14 "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
15 "that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life (Jn. 3:14-16 NKJ)

This is how it should read if you are right:

14 "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
15 "that whoever believes in Him might not perish if they still have eternal life when they die.
16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him perhaps won't perish as long as they didn't lose everlasting life.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Consecrated Life said:
And why then did not David lose both his life & his salvation for his great sins of Adultery , Murder, Lies , his sins being much more devious, evil , and protracted / CONTINUAL than the single sin of Ananias & Sapphira ?
Remember David CONTINUED in his sinful plot of Adultery , Murder, Lies for over 1 year before God forced him to confess.

He performed the appropriate, Lawful, sacrifices for his sins.

The child of David's adultery & Murder that was determined to die was a " Lawful sacrifice " ?
Really?
Very Ghoulish thinking on your part to think of this infant's death as being a " Lawful sacrifice "

2Sa 12:15
And the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.

 

[Tenchi]

This is an important topic for Christians, as it's crucial to our Salvation. To continue in sin knowingly certainly results in a loss of one's Salvation. We must forsake that sin(s) and do our first works over by being cleansed in the blood of Jesus for the remission of sin. If we cling to that sin(s), we are fallen from grace and are considered backsliders.

Romans 6
[1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
[3] Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

[12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
[13] Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
[14] For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (KJV)

What's odd in your use of Romans 6 is that Paul was writing to Christians, to born-again people, to whom he was having to explain the nature of their spiritual identity and condition in Christ and the need to yield themselves unto God. Obviously, if they had been living in these things already, he would not have had to remark on them to the believers at Rome. But, apparently, they weren't, and so to them he asked with rhetorical incredulity, "How shall we, who are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" In Romans 6, though, Paul never indicated that these ignorant and sinning believers had lost their salvation.

This is the same sort of thing observable in Paul's letter to the believers at Corinth (1 Corinthians 3, 5, 6, 11). He pointed out a number of sinful things in their attitudes and conduct, things they were willfully persisting in, and one thing that was even grossly sexually immoral (chapter 5), and yet he constantly affirmed that, despite their willfully sinful behavior, they were still God's own. For example, Paul identified the Corinthian believers as "carnal babes in Christ," (1 Corinthians 3:1), and accused them of fractious, partisan, ego-driven sin (1 Corinthians 3:3-4), but in the same chapter called them God's "field" and "house" (vs. 9), "brethren," (vs. 1), and wrote, "you belong to Christ" (vs. 23) and that they were the "temple of God" (vs. 16). It seems very plain to me that Paul did not think willful sin meant a believer had lost their salvation. The same thing is true of Paul's letter to the Galatians, as well.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Obedience to God will, however, be of great profit on the day of judgement.

Yes, but not to MAKE you a justified/saved person, but to SHOW that you are justified/saved person.

Anybody who is performing righteous deeds in order to become righteous (justified) is serving the works justification gospel condemned in scripture. The ONLY righteousness that can deliver a person safely through the judgment of God is the righteousness that comes from God, not of yourself, and is received as a free gift of his grace, by faith, apart from the value and merit of works-any works. That is how Abraham, our example, was made righteous, that is how we, also, are made righteous.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I know 1 John 3:9-10, which show that those (re)born of God's seed cannot commit sin.
Grape seed cannot bear figs.

We know from the whole counsel of scripture that John does not mean born again people never sin.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

"Backsliders" are not His sheep.
How can I tell?
They don't follow the Shepherd.

That doesn't have to mean they never were his sheep.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Ever heard of repentance from sin?
A false repentance, one you have to repeat ad-nauseum, is just a lie to God.
There is no salvation at the end of that path.

10 “Whoever has already bathed needs only to wash his feet, and he will be completely clean. John 13:10

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No burden at all, since I was freed from service to sin. (John 8:32-34)

Well, that's good for you, then.

Then there are the rest of us Spirit filled believers...the ones the Bible speaks of, growing up into the image and stature of Christ, not starting out there.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So grape vines will only produce figs once in a while?
You make a mockery of Jesus' words . (Luke 6:44)..."For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes."

Obviously, it's a generalization.

There are lots and lots of us genuinely Spirit filled born again believers growing up and out of the flesh. We know the kind of tree you are refers to what you are generally characterized by, not what you definitively produce one way, but not the other.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Men are known by their "fruit".

And Peter refers to the "increasing" traits and fruit of the Spirit (2 Peter 1:8 NASB). This is just one example of other scripture that shows us John was not suggesting that born again people never sin. Your theology is guilty of not rightly dividing the word of God. It improperly lifts out and separates John's scriptures away from the whole counsel of scripture. That's what cults do to lead people astray into falsehoods.

 

[Hopeful]

As a believer, trusting and relying on the forgiveness of God, not being faultless in this life can mean you have no assurance of the salvation you surely have.

If you are not "faultless", you will not be saved.
Jesus gave us the ability to "turn from" sin.
He provided the means of washing away all past sins by His blood/water baptism.
God provided the death of the old man and rebirth of a new creature.
Believers take those gifts to heart.

But for the unbeliever, not being faultless in this life will result in damnation at the return of Christ because of the unbeliever he is. His sins being counted against him because he does not believe and trust in the forgiveness of God for those sins.

No sinner believes in or trusts God.

 

[Hopeful]

It is, but it's a work, like any work of righteousness, that can't justify you and make you right with God. Only having your sins forgiven and receiving the righteousness that comes from God, both of which come by faith, can justify you and make you right with God.

My faith is justified by not telling lies.
It proves Jesus' and God's efforts were true.
Can my faith be justified by telling lies?

When you understand why works can not justify you and make you right with God you'll see that Paul means any and all works. You can't do enough righteous works and consistently enough to do that. So it isn't the kind of works that justify or don't justify you and make you right with God, it's the fact that you will fall miserably short at being perfect in the execution of those works to make them effective at making you right with God. That is why the only way you can become righteous and, therefore, qualified to be saved is to have your sin guilt forgiven, not worked off, and to receive God's righteousness, not produce your own by being righteous.

5He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birtha and renewal by the Holy Spirit . 6This is the Spirit He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that, having been justified by His grace (not our works), we would become heirs with the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:5-7

The works that cannot justify you are the works of the Law...circumcision, dietary rules, feast keeping, sabbath keeping, etc.

 

[Hopeful]

Obviously, it's a generalization.

?
Do you really mean to tell me that grape seeds CAN bring forth figs?

There are lots and lots of us genuinely Spirit filled born again believers growing up and out of the flesh.

If they are in, or warring after the flesh, they are not in the Spirit.
Christians start out as new creatures, perfect from the moment of rebirth from God's perfect seed.

We know the kind of tree you are refers to what you are generally characterized by, not what you definitively produce one way, but not the other.

That's one way to try to justify one's self.
And one's sin.
But it is a false justification.

 

[Hopeful]

And Peter refers to the "increasing" traits and fruit of the Spirit (2 Peter 1:8 NASB).

Yes, one deed this week, but maybe two or three next week to glorify and justify God.

This is just one example of other scripture that shows us John was not suggesting that born again people never sin.

That determination is not of the Spirit of God.

Your theology is guilty of not rightly dividing the word of God. It improperly lifts out and separates John's scriptures away from the whole counsel of scripture. That's what cults do to lead people astray into falsehoods.

Astray into sinless obedience?
I don't figure a devil wants men to forsake sin.

 

[Hopeful]

Consecrated Life said:
And why then did not David lose both his life & his salvation for his great sins of Adultery , Murder, Lies , his sins being much more devious, evil , and protracted / CONTINUAL than the single sin of Ananias & Sapphira ?
Remember David CONTINUED in his sinful plot of Adultery , Murder, Lies for over 1 year before God forced him to confess.

The child of David's adultery & Murder that was determined to die was a " Lawful sacrifice " ?
Really?
Very Ghoulish thinking on your part to think of this infant's death as being a " Lawful sacrifice "

No, it wasn't.
What ever the Law said was the payment for murder and adultery would need to be paid/sacrificed in order to have David's sins atoned for.

2Sa 12:15
And the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.

Even more punishment for David, and for his wife.
I don't think it stopped there either.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, but not to MAKE you a justified/saved person, but to SHOW that you are justified/saved person.

That seems to be the point of your posts, "make one justified".
Nothing but the blood of Christ can accomplish that.

Anybody who is performing righteous deeds in order to become righteous (justified) is serving the works justification gospel condemned in scripture. The ONLY righteousness that can deliver a person safely through the judgment of God is the righteousness that comes from God, not of yourself, and is received as a free gift of his grace, by faith, apart from the value and merit of works-any works. That is how Abraham, our example, was made righteous, that is how we, also, are made righteous.

Can telling a lie, or stealing from work, prove one is justified?
How about adultery?
Wouldn't those things prove one is UNjustified?

 

[Hopeful]

We know from the whole counsel of scripture that John does not mean born again people never sin.

Your take is erroneous.
Those reborn of God's seed are as perfect, behavior wise, as God is perfect.
Otherwise, God's seed is bringing forth liars, thieves, and murderers.
The fruit shows from whom one is born.

 

[Hopeful]

That doesn't have to mean they never were his sheep.

If they are not following the Good Shepherd, they are not His sheep.
If they once seemed to follow Him, they were doing it on their own strength.