Can you continue to knowingly sin and remain a Christian?

[07/07/07]

Sinning, knowingly or otherwise doesn't mean you're not a Christian or that you lose your Christianity.

Christian means "Christ-like". Knowingly sinning is not "Christ-like". Will people unlike Christ enter into the Kingdom of God? Friends, the defiled will not enter into God’s Kingdom, so we must be diligent with our lives to be real servants of Jesus Christ. We must look to the power in Jesus’ blood to set us free from anything that defiles us.

Revelation 22
[10] And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
[11] He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
[12] And, behold, I [Jesus] come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
[13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
[14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
[15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 16I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Revelation 21
[6] And he said unto me, It is done. I [Jesus] am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
[7] He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
[8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Sinning, knowingly or otherwise doesn't mean you're not a Christian or that you lose your Christianity.

Sinning means one is a child of the devil.
It is written..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:9-10)

 

[DJT_47]

Christian means "Christ-like". Knowingly sinning is not "Christ-like". Will people unlike Christ enter into the Kingdom of God? Friends, the defiled will not enter into God’s Kingdom, so we must be diligent with our lives to be real servants of Jesus Christ. We must look to the power in Jesus’ blood to set us free from anything that defiles us.

Revelation 22
[10] And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
[11] He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
[12] And, behold, I [Jesus] come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
[13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
[14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
[15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 16I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Revelation 21
[6] And he said unto me, It is done. I [Jesus] am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
[7] He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
[8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

No, "Christian" doesn't mean "Christ like". Christian means from or owned by, designated by the 'ian' suffix. Jesus purchased the church with his own blood, Acts 20:28, 1 Cor 7:23, 1 Cor 6:19-20. 1 Peter 1:18-19

 

[Free]

Sinning means one is a child of the devil.
It is written..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:9-10)

No, that is not what that verse means. That is completely divorced from the context of 1 John. This is what John is saying there:

1Jn 3:4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.
1Jn 3:5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1Jn 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother. (ESV)

This is speaking of those whose lives are characterized by sin, not believers who struggle against the flesh and sin. Besides, he has already said this:

1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (ESV)

He then follows with this:

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.
1Jn 5:17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.
1Jn 5:18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him. (ESV)

John clearly and unequivocally teaches that believers sin, but their lives are characterized by sin as it is in unbelievers’ lives.

 

[Hopeful 2]

No, that is not what that verse means. That is completely divorced from the context of 1 John. This is what John is saying there:

1Jn 3:4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.
1Jn 3:5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1Jn 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother. (ESV)

The word "practice" is an add-on by the devilish to keep accommodating sin.

John clearly and unequivocally teaches that believers sin, but their lives are characterized by sin as it is in unbelievers’ lives.

Is that the same John who wrote..."He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4)
And..."Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him." (1 John 3:6)
And..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:9-10)
And..."And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him." (1 John 3:24)
And..."Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)
And..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18)

Your "John" must think apple seeds can bring forth water melons.
I mean, really...God's seed bringing forth sinners ?????

 

[07/07/07]

No, "Christian" doesn't mean "Christ like". Christian means from or owned by, designated by the 'ian' suffix. Jesus purchased the church with his own blood, Acts 20:28, 1 Cor 7:23, 1 Cor 6:19-20. 1 Peter 1:18-19

"The term “Christian” literally means “Christ-like”, specifically in reference to Jesus Christ. The term was first used as a mockery against early new testament believers, insinuating that they were nothing more than mindless followers of Jesus Christ. As any true follower of Christ would be, the “Christians” accepted the reproachful term as flattery for their faith, and the title eventually became quite common, though mentioned only twice in the Bible itself (Acts 26:28 and 1 Peter 4:16). Having this understanding of the origin of the term, the question must again be asked, “What, then, is a Christian?” A Christian is simply a person who behaves, believes, and is becoming like Jesus Christ." - What is a Christian

 

[Free]

The word "practice" is an add-on by the devilish to keep accommodating sin.

Lol! No. It's in the Greek. What do you understand of translating one language to another, especially one like ancient Greek into English?

In 1 John 3:4, the KJV uses "committeth" and "transgresseth," both being the word poieo, which has a number of meanings but basically is "to make" or "produce" or "do." The important bit, though, is that in the first instance, "committeth," the verb is present indicative active, which means that it is presently ongoing action performed by the subject. In the second case, "transgresseth," it is present participle active, which conveys ongoing action as well, alongside the action of the main verb.

How that plays out is easily seen in my KJV Interlinear, where, under the Greek, the English of 1 John 3:4 reads: "Everyone that practices sin, also lawlessness practices and sin is lawlessness." Yet, in the margin, it is translated as the KJV has it.

The problem is that English doesn't have all these tenses and such, so things often get lost in translation when they try to be too rigid with formal equivalence. So, the ESV has the better translation which actually gives the meaning in the Greek, confirmed by the literal English reading in my KJV Interlinear.

You can also confirm by looking here and doing some study:

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_john/3.htm

So, again, John is speaking of those whose continually, habitually sin; those whose lives are characterized by sin. What he absolutely is saying, and never says, is that believers don't sin. He explicitly states that they do, but their lives are not to be characterized by ongoing sin, or living a sinful lifestyle as we would say.

Is that the same John who wrote..."He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4)
And..."Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him." (1 John 3:6)
And..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:9-10)
And..."And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him." (1 John 3:24)
And..."Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)
And..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18)

Your "John" must think apple seeds can bring forth water melons.
I mean, really...God's seed bringing forth sinners ?????

1Jn 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1Jn 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother. (ESV)

1Jn 5:18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.(ESV)

John's message is consistent throughout the book: believers sin, but their lives are not characterized by sin, the way unbelievers' lives are. Willful, ongoing, unrepentant sin is a sign that someone is an unbeliever. Nowhere does John say, nor does scripture say, that "God's seed [brings] forth sinners," just it is never stated that believers never sin. We are justified and commanded to be holy and submit to God, but we still struggle against the flesh, which causes us to still sin, and the devil, who tempts us to sin. Much of the NT deals with sinful actions of believers, as they learn to live their lives in Christ, which is no different than believers today.

It's hard not to notice that you didn't address the fact that John explicitly states that believers sin (1:8-2:1; 5:16).

 

[Hopeful 2]

Lol! No. It's in the Greek. What do you understand of translating one language to another, especially one like ancient Greek into English?

In 1 John 3:4, the KJV uses "committeth" and "transgresseth," both being the word poieo, which has a number of meanings but basically is "to make" or "produce" or "do." The important bit, though, is that in the first instance, "committeth," the verb is present indicative active, which means that it is presently ongoing action performed by the subject. In the second case, "transgresseth," it is present participle active, which conveys ongoing action as well, alongside the action of the main verb.

How that plays out is easily seen in my KJV Interlinear, where, under the Greek, the English of 1 John 3:4 reads: "Everyone that practices sin, also lawlessness practices and sin is lawlessness." Yet, in the margin, it is translated as the KJV has it.

The problem is that English doesn't have all these tenses and such, so things often get lost in translation when they try to be too rigid with formal equivalence. So, the ESV has the better translation which actually gives the meaning in the Greek, confirmed by the literal English reading in my KJV Interlinear.

You can also confirm by looking here and doing some study:

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_john/3.htm

So, again, John is speaking of those whose continually, habitually sin; those whose lives are characterized by sin. What he absolutely is saying, and never says, is that believers don't sin. He explicitly states that they do, but their lives are not to be characterized by ongoing sin, or living a sinful lifestyle as we would say.


1Jn 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1Jn 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother. (ESV)

1Jn 5:18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.(ESV)

John's message is consistent throughout the book: believers sin, but their lives are not characterized by sin, the way unbelievers' lives are. Willful, ongoing, unrepentant sin is a sign that someone is an unbeliever. Nowhere does John say, nor does scripture say, that "God's seed [brings] forth sinners," just it is never stated that believers never sin. We are justified and commanded to be holy and submit to God, but we still struggle against the flesh, which causes us to still sin, and the devil, who tempts us to sin. Much of the NT deals with sinful actions of believers, as they learn to live their lives in Christ, which is no different than believers today.

It's hard not to notice that you didn't address the fact that John explicitly states that believers sin (1:8-2:1; 5:16).

So the Greeks are going to accommodate our sinning ?
I will depend on my rebirth from God's perfect seed to keep me FROM sinning.

 

[DJT_47]

"The term “Christian” literally means “Christ-like”, specifically in reference to Jesus Christ. The term was first used as a mockery against early new testament believers, insinuating that they were nothing more than mindless followers of Jesus Christ. As any true follower of Christ would be, the “Christians” accepted the reproachful term as flattery for their faith, and the title eventually became quite common, though mentioned only twice in the Bible itself (Acts 26:28 and 1 Peter 4:16). Having this understanding of the origin of the term, the question must again be asked, “What, then, is a Christian?” A Christian is simply a person who behaves, believes, and is becoming like Jesus Christ." - What is a Christian

A Christian is one that is Christ's, one owned by Christ, one that has become part of the body of Christ which is his church.

 

[Free]

So the Greeks are going to accommodate our sinning ?

The Greek says what it says and your argument is largely based on an English translation of Greek which doesn't clearly translate what the Greek is actually saying.

I will depend on my rebirth from God's perfect seed to keep me FROM sinning.

Are you going to address the verses where John clearly says that believers sin?

 

[Hopeful 2]

The Greek says what it says and your argument is largely based on an English translation of Greek which doesn't clearly translate what the Greek is actually saying.

Hundreds of years of the KJV, without interjection by God against it, versus maybe a hundred years of replacement theology aimed at tolerance for sin ?
Which is of God ?

Are you going to address the verses where John clearly says that believers sin?

I can't find any verses, much less from John, where anyone says there is sin in Christ.
Can you ?

 

[Free]

Hundreds of years of the KJV, without interjection by God against it, versus maybe a hundred years of replacement theology aimed at tolerance for sin ?
Which is of God ?

Yet, taken in context, the KJV still supports what I have said.

I can't find any verses, much less from John, where anyone says there is sin in Christ.
Can you ?

We're not talking about Christ. It's worth noting how you keep dancing around trying not to address some things which John states quite clearly and plainly.

1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (ESV)

He then follows with this:

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.
1Jn 5:17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.
1Jn 5:18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him. (ESV)

Are you going to address these verses where John clearly says that believers sin?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yet, taken in context, the KJV still supports what I have said.


We're not talking about Christ. It's worth noting how you keep dancing around trying not to address some things which John states quite clearly and plainly.

1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (ESV)

He then follows with this:

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.
1Jn 5:17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.
1Jn 5:18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him. (ESV)

Are you going to address these verses where John clearly says that believers sin?

There are none.
Christians have confessed their sins and been washed of them by the blood of Christ.
Then they walk in God, in Whom is no sin.
If a supposed Christians is unmasked as a fraud, he still has the advocate to make him a real Christian.

 

[Free]

There are none.
Christians have confessed their sins and been washed of them by the blood of Christ.
Then they walk in God, in Whom is no sin.
If a supposed Christians is unmasked as a fraud, he still has the advocate to make him a real Christian.

I gave some; you've quoted them twice but left them unaddressed. First, look at whom John was writing to:

1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
...
1Jn 2:7 Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard.
...
1Jn 2:12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven for his name's sake.
1Jn 2:13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, children, because you know the Father.
1Jn 2:14 I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one. (ESV)

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. (ESV)

Everything in this book shows that John is writing to believers and those who think they are believers, warning them that their behaviour will show whether or not they are believers. But, nowhere does John state that believers don't sin; he explicitly says they do:

1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (ESV)

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. (ESV)

It cannot get anymore clear than that. Believers still struggle with sin and to deny that is self-deception, makes God a liar, and means that such a person doesn't have the truth or God's word in them. That is what John is saying.

Would you prefer I post other passages from the rest of the NT that either state believers sin or show the apostles dealing with sin in the Church by believers?

 

[Hopeful 2]

I gave some; you've quoted them twice but left them unaddressed. First, look at whom John was writing to:

1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
...
1Jn 2:7 Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard.
...
1Jn 2:12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven for his name's sake.
1Jn 2:13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, children, because you know the Father.
1Jn 2:14 I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one. (ESV)

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. (ESV)

Everything in this book shows that John is writing to believers and those who think they are believers, warning them that their behaviour will show whether or not they are believers. But, nowhere does John state that believers don't sin; he explicitly says they do:

1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (ESV)

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. (ESV)

It cannot get anymore clear than that. Believers still struggle with sin and to deny that is self-deception, makes God a liar, and means that such a person doesn't have the truth or God's word in them. That is what John is saying.

Would you prefer I post other passages from the rest of the NT that either state believers sin or show the apostles dealing with sin in the Church by believers?

Not necessary, as I know that those walking in the flesh-sinners, are not in Christ.
They are walking in darkness.
Those who walk in God (the light) don't commit sin.

 

[Free]

Not necessary, as I know that those walking in the flesh-sinners, are not in Christ.
They are walking in darkness.
Those who walk in God (the light) don't commit sin.

But that is not stated anywhere in the Bible. Believers do not continue to live a life of sin; their lives aren't characterized by sin. In addition to what I've just given about John clearly writing to believers, including himself, and those who think they are, there is the following:

John's use of the verb "confess" in 1 John 1:9 is in the "present subjunctive, speaking of continuous action." The translation of this verse given in Wuest's Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, is: "If we continue to confess our sins, faithful is He and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from every unrighteousness."

Additionally, both Wuest's Word Studies in the Greek New Testament and The Expositor's Greek Testament show that the Greek grammar of 1 John 3:6, 8, and 9 is also talking about continuous and habitual action. Hence why the ESV and NIV renderings are more clear as to what John was actually saying.

Why would John say that? Because he is simply repeating what Jesus said, as recorded by him, in John 8:34:

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. (ESV)

"The Greek grammar here is such that Jesus is speaking of those who constantly do sin, who live in sin" (Hendriksen, New Testament Commentary: John, p. 53).

So, in the greater context of 1 John and the rest of the NT, the understanding is that true Christians sin, but their lives aren't characterized by sin. Nowhere in 1 John is it stated that Christians don't sin, as that would contradict what John several verses in 1 John, and what many passages in the NT state, as I have given.

Literally everything in 1 John (and the entire NT) goes against your position. The problem is that you're basing your entire position on one or two translations of the Bible which don't actually translate the meaning of what was written in the Greek. This is a potential pitfall of formal equivalence translations and why we should always, at a minimum, consult several Bible translations encompassing both formal and dynamic equivalences.

1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we [continually] confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (ESV)

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. (ESV)

 

[Tempo]

This is an important topic for Christians, as it's crucial to our Salvation. To continue in sin knowingly certainly results in a loss of one's Salvation. We must forsake that sin(s) and do our first works over by being cleansed in the blood of Jesus for the remission of sin. If we cling to that sin(s), we are fallen from grace and are considered backsliders.

Romans 6
[1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
[3] Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

[12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
[13] Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
[14] For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (KJV)

>>>I thought Christians saved by faith alone, not by work?

 

[Hopeful 2]

But that is not stated anywhere in the Bible.

You should read 1 John 1. and 1 John 2. and 1 John 3, and 1 John 4, and 1 John 5, wherein it is written..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."
Are Christians born of God ?

Believers do not continue to live a life of sin; their lives aren't characterized by sin. In addition to what I've just given about John clearly writing to believers, including himself, and those who think they are, there is the following:

John's use of the verb "confess" in 1 John 1:9 is in the "present subjunctive, speaking of continuous action." The translation of this verse given in Wuest's Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, is: "If we continue to confess our sins, faithful is He and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from every unrighteousness."

Additionally, both Wuest's Word Studies in the Greek New Testament and The Expositor's Greek Testament show that the Greek grammar of 1 John 3:6, 8, and 9 is also talking about continuous and habitual action. Hence why the ESV and NIV renderings are more clear as to what John was actually saying.

Why would John say that? Because he is simply repeating what Jesus said, as recorded by him, in John 8:34:

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. (ESV)

"The Greek grammar here is such that Jesus is speaking of those who constantly do sin, who live in sin" (Hendriksen, New Testament Commentary: John, p. 53).

So, in the greater context of 1 John and the rest of the NT, the understanding is that true Christians sin, but their lives aren't characterized by sin. Nowhere in 1 John is it stated that Christians don't sin, as that would contradict what John several verses in 1 John, and what many passages in the NT state, as I have given.

Literally everything in 1 John (and the entire NT) goes against your position. The problem is that you're basing your entire position on one or two translations of the Bible which don't actually translate the meaning of what was written in the Greek. This is a potential pitfall of formal equivalence translations and why we should always, at a minimum, consult several Bible translations encompassing both formal and dynamic equivalences.

1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we [continually] confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (ESV)

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. (ESV)

God is light, and in Him is no darkness.
To suggest that those walking in darkness are "in God" is ludicrous.
Walk in the light, which is God, and you will not commit sin...at all.

 

[Free]

You should read 1 John 1. and 1 John 2. and 1 John 3, and 1 John 4, and 1 John 5, wherein it is written..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."
Are Christians born of God ?

God is light, and in Him is no darkness.
To suggest that those walking in darkness are "in God" is ludicrous.
Walk in the light, which is God, and you will not commit sin...at all.

Of course, it is obvious to all that I am saying no such thing. The issue is, you keep avoiding addressing what the Greek says, who John is writing to, and at least two clear statements of John saying believers sin (1 John 2:1; 5:16). Until you address those issues, this discussion can’t move forward.

 

[WIP]

Not necessary, as I know that those walking in the flesh-sinners, are not in Christ.
They are walking in darkness.
Those who walk in God (the light) don't commit sin.

You should read 1 John 1. and 1 John 2. and 1 John 3, and 1 John 4, and 1 John 5, wherein it is written..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."

I noticed you stopped at 1 John 5. How then do you reconcile what you are saying with 1 John 8-10. If you can't then you are saying the Bible is fallible and contradictory, which we know it is not.