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Can you continue to knowingly sin and remain a Christian?

justbyfaith said:
And also, God is able to keep us from falling and to present us faultless before His presence with exceeding joy.
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I believe that the verse I have quoted here (Jude 1:24) is qualified by Hebrews 2:18.

Heb 2:18, For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Therefore, when it says that He is able to keep us from falling, the topical context speaks of the fact that He is able to help us not to fall into sin, that is, give in to temptation.

And therefore the topical context does not allow for the interpretation that He is able to keep us from falling away; apart from Him being able to keep us from falling into sin / temptation.
 
justbyfaith said:
If we hunger and thirst after righteousness, we will be filled. And it does not happen at the moment of our death. It can happen long before.
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All believers will begin to act righteously from the moment they are born again. The more you long for and seek that righteousness, the more it will happen.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
All believers will begin to act righteously from the moment they are born again. The more you long for and seek that righteousness, the more it will happen.
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Yes, I agree.

In 1 John 3:9, John may in fact be using hyperbole (exaggeration to make a point)...

What point?

That, in becoming born again, we have made a 180-degree turn away from sin, death, hell, and satan, towards righteousness, life, heaven, and God.

Now we are walking in a new direction.

As it is written,

Pro 4:18, But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.
 
justbyfaith said:
And the doctrine of not sinning because you're a Christian now, is biblical (1 John 3:9, 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, Hebrews 10:14; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10; Romans 6:14, Romans 8:12 (kjv, nlt)).
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Stop waiting to be perfectly sinless to be really saved. You're serving a lifeless, oppressive gospel, not the real one. You might as well be under the law where obedience is your righteousness, rather than in the real gospel where righteousness is the righteousness of God given to you as a free gift of his grace. A righteousness through which you are then trained up to live the righteous life God desires.
 
justbyfaith said:
Jesus also said that unless "your" righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will in no wise enter the kingdom of heaven.
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"My" righteousness is the righteousness of God, received as a free gift of his grace through my faith. It is that righteousness that is building me up to the stature of Christ. My personal righteousness is so woefully inadequate that all it can produce is a blind, hypocritical Pharisee.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Stop waiting to be perfectly sinless to be really saved. You're serving a lifeless, oppressive gospel, not the real one. You might as well be under the law where obedience is your righteousness, rather than in the real gospel where righteousness is the righteousness of God given to you as a free gift of his grace. A righteousness through which you are then trained up to live the righteous life God desires.
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I don't have to be perfectly sinless in order to be saved. "entire sanctification" is "a second benefit" (2 Corinthians 1:15)...so that I am not afflicted in my conscience any longer as a believer because I "keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight" (1 John 3:22).

If I were to mess up and violate the law, there is no condemnation; for I am not under the law (Romans 6:14), am dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19), and am delivered from the law (Romans 7:6) as concerning condemnation.

Not as concerning obedience, however (Hebrews 8:8-10, 1 Corinthians 9:21, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10).
 
Jethro Bodine said:
"My" righteousness is the righteousness of God, received as a free gift of his grace through my faith. It is that righteousness that is building me up to the stature of Christ. My personal righteousness is so woefully inadequate that all it can produce is a blind, hypocritical Pharisee.
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I'm sorry for you.

The righteousness of Christ as it is not only imputed, but imparted to us, is practical.

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Rom 5:19, For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Mat 5:6, Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
 
justbyfaith said:
When we mess up in front of unbelievers, they use our mistake as an excuse not to come to Christ because there are hypocrites in the church.
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That's their problem. As long you aren't sinning because you're a hypocrite, but rather because you're a child of God growing up into Christ it's their problem, not yours. If you get a chance to witness to them, humbly explain to them how God has you on track to becoming like him in this life. But don't ever look down your nose at them and tell them how Christians are perfect from the moment they believe. You will have no reward for that labor. What a repulsively inaccurate and arrogant gospel. That's the religion of the Pharisee. Christians are only perfect in that God has forgiven all their transgressions.
 
justbyfaith said:
Jesus also said that unless "your" righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will in no wise enter the kingdom of heaven.
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Our righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisee in two ways. 1) we have the righteousness of God imputed to us, and 2) our righteous behavior comes from the inmost parts of us and so we are able to not lust and be greedy like the Pharisee who only looked good on the outside.

But just to be clear, we enter the kingdom of God solely on the righteousness of God, not on ours. It is that imputation of God's righteousness given to us through our faith, not our works, that qualifies us to be with God at the end of this age.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
That's their problem. As long you aren't sinning because you're a hypocrite, but rather because you're a child of God growing up into Christ it's their problem, not yours. If you get a chance to witness to them, humbly explain to them how God has you on track to becoming like him in this life. But don't ever look down your nose at them and tell them how Christians are perfect from the moment they believe. You will have no reward for that labor. What a repulsively inaccurate and arrogant gospel. That's the religion of the Pharisee. Christians are only perfect in that God has forgiven all their transgressions.
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See post #487 (https://christianforums.net/threads...sin-and-remain-a-christian.97836/post-1785439).
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Our righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisee in two ways. 1) we have the righteousness of God imputed to us, and 2) our righteous behavior comes from the inmost parts of us and so we are able to not lust and be greedy like the Pharisee who only looked good on the outside.
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The imputed righteousness of God is His righteousness; not ours.

When Jesus says "your" righteousness, He is speaking of what your righteousness is in practicality.
 
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Jethro Bodine said:
But just to be clear, we enter the kingdom of God solely on the righteousness of God, not on ours. It is that imputation of God's righteousness given to us through our faith, not our works, that qualifies us to be with God at the end of this age.
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Mat 5:20, For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
 
Hopeful said:
Acts 11:18..."When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life."
That "turn", in league with rebirth from God's seed, produces FAITHFUL children of God.
One of the Merriam-Webster definitions of repentance..."REPENTANCE adds the implication of a resolve to change.
repentance accompanied by a complete change of character"
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Of course it produces faithful children of God, just not perfect children of God. Children characterized by the traits of God their new father, and not characterized by the traits of their old father, the devil. Characterization does not mean perfectly characterized by certain traits. It means largely characterized by certain traits, just as the sons of the devil are not perfect in their characterization of him.
 
Of course we must have God's righteousness imparted to us so that it becomes ours.

Then, if we have God's righteousness, and it becomes our righteousness, we are righteous even as He is righteous (1 John 3:7)...(see also Galatians 2:20, Galatians 5:24)
 
justbyfaith said:
Of course we must have God's righteousness imparted to us so that it becomes ours.

Then, if we have God's righteousness, and it becomes our righteousness, we are righteous even as He is righteous (1 John 3:7)...(see also Galatians 2:20, Galatians 5:24)
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Yes, but the mistake you're making is thinking it must result in perfect righteous behavior in order for you to inherit the kingdom.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Of course it produces faithful children of God, just not perfect children of God. Children characterized by the traits of God their new father, and not characterized by the traits of their old father, the devil. Characterization does not mean perfectly characterized by certain traits. It means largely characterized by certain traits, just as the sons of the devil are not perfect in their characterization of him.
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2Co 13:9, For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection.
2Co 13:10, Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction.
2Co 13:11, Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

1Pe 5:10, But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Col 1:28, Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Col 1:29, Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Yes, but the mistake you're making is thinking it must result in perfect righteous behavior in order for you to inherit the kingdom.
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If we do righteousness then we are righteous even as He is righteous. That is the practical righteousness that exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees.

If you don't have that, practically, then you can have God's imputed righteousness if you believe without wavering in God's promises (Romans 4:20-25).

Here is one such promise:

1Th 5:23, And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24, Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Thus a man is justified when he places his hope in God's promise to sanctify him wholly.
 
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