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Cessationism- have tongues and prophecy ceased, or are they still active?

FreeGrace said:
Correct. I never said that. My point is about the completion of the canon, which would have been sometime between AD 86-95, when John finished Revelation and his 3 epistles.


Again, I never said that all tongues are from the devil. I did make a comment about a missionary who testified that at a service out in the mission field in a 3rd world country there was "speaking in tongues". What shocked him was that one of the "speakers" spoke in a language that the missionary did understand, and what he heard was cursings toward God. None of the congregation understood a thing, and thought the speaker was "Spirit filled".

Given what I've seen and what I've been told, it seems a lot of tongues is emotionally driven. There's a lot of emotions involved when there are tongues, from what I've seen and been told.

My only point is that for those who claim to have this particular gift, they must strictly follow what the Bible says about it.
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when i replied back i didnt fully notice it was you.... i swore up and down i was not going to get back in this post.. i cant prove tongues has ceased . imo the AOG is fairly close i know a couple of the pastors one is a evang/pastor in texas and has preached in in a baptist church.. not one time was tongues mentioned used in fact you would never have known except he mentioned his church .fire ball of a preacher . imo people take spirit filled and go hog wild . if were so spirit filled then we ahve no other room for anything else our cup runneth over . person needs refilled transformed by the renewing of our mind allow the spirit to flow through us
 
brujaq said:
Your opinion on Acts 2:16-18 .. I like what you say about seeing Jesus in scripture but when we see him face to face in my opinion is at our resurrection ..
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The moment we die, we are face to face with the Lord. In His physical presence. Paul dealt with this aspect.

2 Cor 5:8~~New American Standard Bible
we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

I Cor 13 and being face to face with the Lord is not about being absent from the body and going home. It is about becoming mature while we are still in this body.

The OT was a shadow of Christ, the NT and early church was mystery doctrine and COMPLETELY revealing the shadow of Christ......to ALL. And when the Scriptures were complete.......the shadow was FULLY revealed. We can see Him face to face in scripture, even if we can't physically touch Him.
 
Jim Parker said:
It is easy to force scripture to fit into one's preferred theology.
There is plenty of HISTORICAL evidence for the continuance of the gifts of the spirit.

Irenaeus on the Gifts of the Spirit in 180 AD

The Lord raised the dead, and the apostles did so by the means of prayer, and this has been frequently done in the brotherhood on account of some necessity. When the entire church in that particular locality entreated God with much fasting and prayer, the spirit of the dead man has returned, and he has been bestowed in answer to the prayers of the saints. … Those who are truly His disciples, receiving grace from Him, … perform [works] in His name, in order to promote the welfare of others, according to the gift that each one has received from Him.

Some truly and certainly cast out devils. The result is that those who have been cleansed from evil spirits frequently both believe and join themselves to the church. Others have foreknowledge of things to come. They see visions, and they utter prophetic expressions. Still others heal the sick by laying their hands upon them, and the sick are made whole. What is more, as I have said, even the dead have been raised up and remained among us for many years.
Source: http://reclaimingthefaith.blogspot.com/2014/12/irenaeus-on-gifts-of-spirit-in-180ad.html

That is the HISTORICAL record of the continuation of the gifts of the spirit 110 years AFTER 70 AD.
We also have the witness of John Wesley in England and and Johnathan Edwards in America in the 1730s.

I believe that the so-called secession of the gifts is a contrivance which was necessary to support the "Dispensational" theology that was devised in the 1800s and which has become popular in some parts of the body of Christ.

iakov the fool
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Edited

I deny the validity of it. Many early church believers believed in universalism........but it was worked out later.

New American Standard Bible
Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
 
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gr8grace3 said:
Edited

I deny the validity of it. Many early church believers believed in universalism........but it was worked out later.

New American Standard Bible
Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
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so where is the evidence of tongues ceasing does it say where and when they did ?
 
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ezra said:
so where is the evidence of tongues ceasing does it say where and when they did ?
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Luke 16~~30“But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ 31“But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”
 
was you the one stated in 70 a.d tongues ceased once again i have never spoke in tongues not even close.. but it is A gift not everyone will have it
 
gr8grace3 said:
The moment we die, we are face to face with the Lord. In His physical presence. Paul dealt with this aspect.

2 Cor 5:8~~New American Standard Bible
we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

I Cor 13 and being face to face with the Lord is not about being absent from the body and going home. It is about becoming mature while we are still in this body.

The OT was a shadow of Christ, the NT and early church was mystery doctrine and COMPLETELY revealing the shadow of Christ......to ALL. And when the Scriptures were complete.......the shadow was FULLY revealed. We can see Him face to face in scripture, even if we can't physically touch Him.
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The Scripture are complete and the last thing God had Paul pen about tongues is

1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
1Co 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
1Co 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
 
ezra said:
your grasping for air ...that HAS nothing to do with TONGUES ..if that is all you got dont bother . for some one who knows the scripture that is out of line
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Tongues were a sign to Israel for their impending 5th cycle of discipline from the Lord (Lev 26). In 70AD Israel was destroyed , around 96 AD the canon was complete and God turned His attention away from Israel to the Church. The signs and wonders CEASED.......because we live by faith and not by sight.

2 Cor 5:7~~New International Version
For we live by faith, not by sight.
 
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reba said:
The Scripture are complete and the last thing God had Paul pen about tongues is

1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
1Co 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
1Co 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
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Well. We can see that these things are not done in order and decently in todays world. Show me ONE that follows Paul's example in the world today.

And there were still a dozen or so years left before Jerusalem's destruction when these verses were penned........So Paul was in the lead to keep Showing the SIGN of tongues to his fellow Jews that did not believe.Because He knew time was short for them.
 
gr8grace3 said:
Nope.
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hello gr8grace, dirtfarmer here

I don't know of any, either.
So, that is what I base my belief that "them that believed not" in 1 Corinthians 14,was not unbelievers; they didn't believe that God was bringing the Gentiles into the Church just as he was the Jews. So, tongues was a sign to the Jews that didn't believe that the Gentiles were part of the Church: Acts 10:45 speaks of the astonishment of the Jews because of the out pouring of the Spirit on the Gentile believers
 
Really you are saying my family my Dad who you do not know was out of order.. to each his own.. ..
gr8grace3 said:
Well. We can see that these things are not done in order and decently in todays world. Show me ONE that follows Paul's example in the world today.

And there were still a dozen or so years left before Jerusalem's destruction when these verses were penned........So Paul was in the lead to keep Showing the SIGN of tongues to his fellow Jews that did not believe.Because He knew time was short for them.
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dirtfarmer said:
hello gr8grace, dirtfarmer here

I don't know of any, either.
So, that is what I base my belief that "them that believed not" in 1 Corinthians 14,was not unbelievers; they didn't believe that God was bringing the Gentiles into the Church just as he was the Jews. So, tongues was a sign to the Jews that didn't believe that the Gentiles were part of the Church: Acts 10:45 speaks of the astonishment of the Jews because of the out pouring of the Spirit on the Gentile believers
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Specifically, In the verse that you have in mind.......I tend to not agree. I agree that overall the Jew was shocked that gentiles were brought into the fold. And did NOT like it. But in that specific verse I believe it is speaking of unbelieving( in Christ) Jews.

Isaiah 28~~11Indeed, He will speak to this people(Israel/Jews)
Through stammering lips and a foreign tongue,

12He who said to them, “Here is rest, give rest to the weary,”
And, “Here is repose,” but they would not listen.
 
reba said:
Really you are saying my family my Dad who you do not know was out of order.. to each his own.. ..
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We really should not be getting into personal stuff. I am sure your family, dad and yourself are very upstanding and wonderful people.

Tongues will cease.........when did they? Or did they? That is the question.
 
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