[__ Science __ ] Covid Vaccine — Texas Senate Discussion

[jasonc]

Vaccines do not cause the reactions we’ve seen from these jabs. The push was so unscientific it was alarming. But each man ought to be free to choose, the risk of covid (mild if you’re under 70) or the vaccine (uncommon but can be life threatening or debilitating responses.)

In many states you can go to school without vaccines.

Some years ago, our hospital required doctors to get the flu shot or wear a mask when seeing patients. I was shocked to see how many young doctors chose masks. Then I had to read the reports from visits and saw how often certain new neurological diseases followed in the 2-3 months after the flu shot. Then I read about the adjuvant in those flu shots and understood.

The flu shot ,seriously ,the one every year the military requires?

Seriously ,pastors wife is an pa,you aren't .she worked and can. Still be recalled to ICU for covid wards.

She had training in virology ,never mentioned that reaction has signed death certificates for the flu ,the cold .

On the elderly .she was bothered by the amount death.
I have the Spanish flu ,asthma attacks ,and covid .
I'm 49. The covid I had was not s normal mild running nose head ache fever,

It was mild compared to some of the former but that honestly was Gods grace abs the cold and the flu do kick off the asthma reactions and I go to the ER and can't work.

Neither does the flu ever leave a taste problem I have .toast and Pepsi still after a year don't taste the same and other foods.

Vaccines do not cause the reactions we’ve seen from these jabs. The push was so unscientific it was alarming. But each man ought to be free to choose, the risk of covid (mild if you’re under 70) or the vaccine (uncommon but can be life threatening or debilitating responses.)

In many states you can go to school without vaccines.

 

[jasonc]

State-by-State: Vaccinations Required for Public School Kindergarten - ProCon.org

Find out which vaccines are mandated for public school kindergarten entry as of August 2021, along with links for each state's requirements.

vaccines.procon.org

Nope every state requires vaccines ,some more then others

 

[jasonc]

Overseas I would notice a troop leaving in over that as well sick being sent home isn't just here's the bird and it flies you to the us in one shot .

The troop would have to be replaced and overseas is unsanitary and you had to be there to see that and parasites,other diseases uncommon to America .

A few got rabies and died . TB was s problem and malaria .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The flu shot ,seriously ,the one every year the military requires?

That’s the one, They have no choice no education in these matters. The young neurologists do.

Seriously ,pastors wife is an pa,you aren't .she worked and can. Still be recalled to ICU for covid wards.

And? So? I bet she has no idea how these shots work.

She had training in virology ,never mentioned that reaction has signed death certificates for the flu ,the cold .

Huh? How is that significant? People don’t die if the common cold.

On the elderly .she was bothered by the amount death.
I have the Spanish flu ,asthma attacks ,and covid .
I'm 49. The covid I had was not s normal mild running nose head ache fever,

That’s strange. The Spanish flu went around (no variants) 100years ago. In 99% of the cases here the symptoms were mild to none,

It was mild compared to some of the former but that honestly was Gods grace abs the cold and the flu do kick off the asthma reactions and I go to the ER and can't work.

Ah, comorbidities . Yes for you it’s serious.

Neither does the flu ever leave a taste problem I have .toast and Pepsi still after a year don't taste the same and other foods.

As I said, comorbidities for the sick are a problem. But I know a nurse who loss the use of her arm after the jabs.

 

[jasonc]

That’s the one, They have no choice no education in these matters. The young neurologists do.

And? So? I bet she has no idea how these shots work.

Huh? How is that significant? People don’t die if the common cold.

That’s strange. The Spanish flu went around (no variants) 100years ago. In 99% of the cases here the symptoms were mild to none,

Ah, comorbidities . Yes for you it’s serious.

As I said, comorbidities are a problem. I know a nurse who loss the use of her arm after the jabs.

The Spanish flu hit the military back in 93,ft.polk la was closed off to acess over it .irc it was either coming to that or for a short period

But trust your word over someone I know in person who has treated a few who had covid and trained in such things .

Even with my asthma ,as it's exercised induced .I have without hitting inhalers out ran ,walked the youth in my line of work .

Obesity in the youth and lack of physical shape is such a problem that military recruiting can't keep up with demands .


You made it sound like the modern flu shot and the one 30 plus years old causes reactions .


No.i given the time I have seen that requirement don't buy it .

The small local outbreak in Louisiana took several lives of healthy males.

 

[jasonc]

Childhood Obesity Facts | Overweight & Obesity | CDC

Childhood obesity is a serious problem in the United States. Learn more...

www.cdc.gov

20 percent I know the military definition is by body fat for age and gender which is lower .

I didn't make tape a few times despite my pt scores .but that's another thread .

 

[Barbarian]

A generation ago mandated injections for a flu would never have been accepted. That people wound lose their job or risk their health wouldn’t have been so mildly complied with.

A generation ago, flu shots were mandatory for all military personnel. And they weren't nearly as good as they are today. I know this, because I was in the AF at the time, and one of my duties was to plan and implement that program.

And yeah, people complained about it. I didn't like them, myself. But you know, the mission. They wanted to make sure that an epidemic would not make a unit ineffective. And that was that.

Covid 19 is a mild - moderate flue. Billions have had it and recovered no problem.

Over a million Americans died from it.

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

The last time over a million Americans died from a flu pandemic was 1918. C'mon.

Then I had to read the reports from visits and saw how often certain new neurological diseases followed in the 2-3 months after the flu shot.

As you learned, roughly one in a million. Lots of fake "experts" trying to sell fake stories, though:

Did Scientists 'Confirm' the Pfizer Vaccine Causes Neurological Damage?

A study published by an anti-vaccine activist in a predatory journal is being presented as a meaningful contribution to science. It is not.

www.snopes.com

On the other hand, we know realize that many people who had even mild cases of COVID-19 are experiencing serous neurological symptoms.

A systematic review of neurological symptoms and complications of COVID-19​

Journal of Neurology​

volume 268, pages 392–402 (2021)​

March 23, 2021 -- Cognitive dysfunction, sometimes called “brain fog,”tops the list of neurologic complaints in patients with long-haul COVID-19 whose illness wasn't severe enough for them to be hospitalized, new research shows.

But brain fog isn’t the only problem, the study found.

Researchers, who tracked 100 non-hospitalized patients with long-haul COVID-19 from May to November found 85% reported four or more neurologic symptoms.

"It's the first of its kind study on neurological symptoms appearing in patients non-hospitalized," senior author Igor Koralnik, MD, professor of neurology at Northwestern University in Chicago told Medscape.

"Most of what we know today [about long-haul COVID-19 patients] is what is happening in patients severely sick in the hospital," Koralnik, who is also chief of neuro-infectious disease and global neurology, said.

It's a persistent problem with uncertain outcomes for these people who are now facing an uncertain future from what was supposed to be a mild illness.

 

[Barbarian]

Vaccines do not cause the reactions we’ve seen from these jabs.

You've been misled about that. The vaccines used for COVID-19 have many of the same (fortunately mild or rare) reactions that other vaccines do. In the 70s, the flu shots used in military vaccinations had many of the same kinds of reports as we have with the COVID-19 vaccines.

 

[Barbarian]

They are vaccines.

Yep. Vaccines:
From a medical dictionary:

Vaccine​

A preparation using a non-infectious element or relative of a particular virus or bacteria, and administered with the intention of halting the progress of an infection, or completely preventing it.
Mentioned in: Encephalitis, Hepatitis A, Hepatitis B, Hepatitis E, Smallpox
Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine.

 

[JLB]

Yep. Vaccines:
From a medical dictionary:

Vaccine​

A preparation using a non-infectious element or relative of a particular virus or bacteria, and administered with the intention of halting the progress of an infection, or completely preventing it.
Mentioned in: Encephalitis, Hepatitis A, Hepatitis B, Hepatitis E, Smallpox
Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine.

From the Truth Himself —


Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Matthew 9:12


If a person is not sick, they don’t need some experimental “medicine“ injected into them.

I can certain see why unbelievers would do this, but it is utterly astounding why a blood bought child of the living God would allow themselves to take a vaccine when they are perfectly well.


He is the Lord who heals all our diseases. This is not a promise to never get a disease, but a promise to receive healing if we get a disease.


Bless the LORD, O my soul,
And forget not all His benefits:
Who forgives all your iniquities,
Who heals all your diseases,
Psalms 103:2-3


There‘s more good news —


Because you have made the LORD, who is my refuge,
Even the Most High, your dwelling place,
No evil shall befall you,
Nor shall any plague come near your dwelling;
Psalm 91:9



JLB

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Sorry to hear that. Pretty poor.
Too bad

State-by-State: Vaccinations Required for Public School Kindergarten - ProCon.org

Find out which vaccines are mandated for public school kindergarten entry as of August 2021, along with links for each state's requirements.

vaccines.procon.org

Nope every state requires vaccines ,some more then others

Too bad

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You've been misled about that. The vaccines used for COVID-19 have many of the same (fortunately mild or rare) reactions that other vaccines do. In the 70s, the flu shots used in military vaccinations had many of the same kinds of reports as we have with the COVID-19 vaccines.

No, I’m am well educated and no flu shot functions as these RNa/DNa shots do. None. No one died of heart failure nor were they crippled for life. But my experience is those who embrace the narrative cannot be convinced.

 

[jasonc]

Sorry to hear that. Pretty poor.
Too bad

Too bad

You aren't from the u.s and how antivaxx of you .
wife's nuerologist suggested no such idea .

You must be under a certified experiency doctor of specialist that you want to be one for a few years .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You aren't from the u.s and how antivaxx of you .

No, I’m pro choice to what is injected into a persons body. The gas lighting of yelling “antivax” to those who took many but not this vaccine tells of the emotional nature of your position, Emotional not rational. And I am from the US.

wife's nuerologist suggested no such idea .

You must be under a certified experiency doctor of specialist that you want to be one for a few years .

Uh? Again, gas lighting when information and logic fail,

 

[Barbarian]

No, I’m am well educated and no flu shot functions as these RNa/DNa shots do.

Flu shots are not the only form of vaccine. As you see from the medical definition of "vaccine", all of the vaccines used for immunization fit the definition.

Vaccine​

A preparation using a non-infectious element or relative of a particular virus or bacteria, and administered with the intention of halting the progress of an infection, or completely preventing it.
Mentioned in: Encephalitis, Hepatitis A, Hepatitis B, Hepatitis E, Smallpox
Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine.

The mRNA vaccines have been developed over decades. As you know, they work very well and have very low rates of adverse effects. We can go back over the numbers for vaccinated and unvaccinated people, if you like.

None. No one died of heart failure nor were they crippled for life. But my experience is those who embrace the narrative cannot be convinced.

You've been misled about that, too. There was, for example, a relatively high rate of Guillain-Barre cases associated with influenza vaccines. Still very rare, a dangerous consequence:
The background rate for GBS in the Unites States is about 80 to 160 cases of GBS each week, regardless of vaccination. The data on the association between GBS and seasonal flu vaccination are variable and inconsistent across flu seasons. If there is an increased risk of GBS following flu vaccination it is small, on the order of one to two additional GBS cases per million doses of flu vaccine administered.

Guillain-Barré syndrome and Flu Vaccine | CDC

Overview of Guillain Barre Sydrome GBS, what causes it, and who is at risk of developing the disorder - CDC

www.cdc.gov

Guillian-Barre syndrome is an autoimmune disorder, which is rarely caused by immunizations. Fortunately, the rate for COVID-19 vaccines is quite low. Johnson and Johnson vaccine had the highest rates:

The likelihood of being diagnosed with GBS after receiving the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine is extremely small — about 0.0008%.

What to Know About Guillain-Barré and the Covid Vaccine

The FDA recently issued a warning that the single-dose vaccine is associated with an increased risk of developing Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS), a rare autoimmune disorder that attacks the body’s nerves. Here’s what you need to know.

health.clevelandclinic.org

Of course, those who embrace the narrative will ignore these facts, but they remain true. As you probably know, strokes, blood clots, and heart failure are many times more common in COVID-19 patients than in those who are immunized:

Patients hospitalized with severe COVID-19 infections who have high levels of the blood clotting protein factor V are at elevated risk for serious injury from blood clots such as deep vein thrombosis or pulmonary embolism, according to a new study by Harvard Medical School investigators at Massachusetts General Hospital.

On the other hand, critically ill patients with COVID-19 and low levels of factor V appear to be at increased risk for death from a form of coagulopathy that resembles disseminated intravascular coagulation (DIC)—a devastating, often fatal abnormality in which blood clots form in small vessels throughout the body, leading to exhaustion of clotting factors and proteins that control coagulation.

“Aside from COVID-19, I’ve never seen anything else cause markedly elevated factor V, and I’ve been doing this for 25 years,” said senior study author Elizabeth Van Cott, HMS professor of pathology at Mass General.

Patients with severe COVID-19 caused by the SARS-CoV-2 virus can develop blood clots in medical lines, such as intravenous lines and catheters, and in arteries, lungs and extremities, including the toes. Yet the mechanisms underlying coagulation disorders in patients with COVID-19 are still unknown.
https://hms.harvard.edu/news/covid-19-blood-clots

And it's not just hospitalized patients:

Are clots a risk for people with mild cases of COVID-19?​

There are reports that clots are forming in people with COVID-19 who are at home and mobile — not just those lying flat in a hospital bed. But it’s not clear yet how common they are.

“When people are in the hospital, we’re more likely to do tests to look for clots. So we know more about this symptom in people with severe cases,” Dr. Tsuang explains. “In less ill patients who are recovering at home, we just don’t know yet.”
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/should-you-be-worried-about-blood-clots-with-covid-19/

These researchers looked at 150 consecutive ICU admissions with proven [2] COVID-19 infections. 11.7% of these patients developed clots, most often from clots that formed in the legs and traveled to the lungs, termed pulmonary emboli, further impairing the lungs' ability to absorb oxygen and release carbon dioxide. Matched patients with non-COVID acute respiratory distress syndrome, ARDS had a 4.8% incidence of DIC.
https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/04/28/why-are-covid-19-patients-dying-blood-clots-14747

So your chances of getting clots from the infection are about 117,000 times greater than your chance of getting clots from the vaccination. Pretty stiff odds, no?

 

[Barbarian]

If a person is not sick, they don’t need some experimental “medicine“ injected into them.

The data are very clear. Your chances of dying of COVID-19 are many times higher if you are not vaccinated. I can show you the data again, if you like. Now your chances are relatively low, even if you don't get vaccinated. About one out of every 350 Americans have died of COVID-19. Kinda like golfing in a thunderstorm or driving after drinking. You'll probably survive either way. And one can trust that God will take care of you, even if you are reckless. But why tempt God?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Flu shots are not the only form of vaccine. As you see from the medical definition of "vaccine", all of the vaccines used for immunization fit the definition.

Vaccine​

A preparation using a non-infectious element or relative of a particular virus or bacteria, and administered with the intention of halting the progress of an infection, or completely preventing it.
Mentioned in: Encephalitis, Hepatitis A, Hepatitis B, Hepatitis E, Smallpox
Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine.

The mRNA vaccines have been developed over decades. As you know, they work very well and have very low rates of adverse effects. We can go back over the numbers for vaccinated and unvaccinated people, if you like.


You've been misled about that, too. There was, for example, a relatively high rate of Guillain-Barre cases associated with influenza vaccines. Still very rare, a dangerous consequence:
The background rate for GBS in the Unites States is about 80 to 160 cases of GBS each week, regardless of vaccination. The data on the association between GBS and seasonal flu vaccination are variable and inconsistent across flu seasons. If there is an increased risk of GBS following flu vaccination it is small, on the order of one to two additional GBS cases per million doses of flu vaccine administered.

Guillain-Barré syndrome and Flu Vaccine | CDC

Overview of Guillain Barre Sydrome GBS, what causes it, and who is at risk of developing the disorder - CDC

www.cdc.gov

Guillian-Barre syndrome is an autoimmune disorder, which is rarely caused by immunizations. Fortunately, the rate for COVID-19 vaccines is quite low. Johnson and Johnson vaccine had the highest rates:

The likelihood of being diagnosed with GBS after receiving the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine is extremely small — about 0.0008%.

What to Know About Guillain-Barré and the Covid Vaccine

The FDA recently issued a warning that the single-dose vaccine is associated with an increased risk of developing Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS), a rare autoimmune disorder that attacks the body’s nerves. Here’s what you need to know.

health.clevelandclinic.org

Of course, those who embrace the narrative will ignore these facts, but they remain true. As you probably know, strokes, blood clots, and heart failure are many times more common in COVID-19 patients than in those who are immunized:

Patients hospitalized with severe COVID-19 infections who have high levels of the blood clotting protein factor V are at elevated risk for serious injury from blood clots such as deep vein thrombosis or pulmonary embolism, according to a new study by Harvard Medical School investigators at Massachusetts General Hospital.

On the other hand, critically ill patients with COVID-19 and low levels of factor V appear to be at increased risk for death from a form of coagulopathy that resembles disseminated intravascular coagulation (DIC)—a devastating, often fatal abnormality in which blood clots form in small vessels throughout the body, leading to exhaustion of clotting factors and proteins that control coagulation.

“Aside from COVID-19, I’ve never seen anything else cause markedly elevated factor V, and I’ve been doing this for 25 years,” said senior study author Elizabeth Van Cott, HMS professor of pathology at Mass General.

Patients with severe COVID-19 caused by the SARS-CoV-2 virus can develop blood clots in medical lines, such as intravenous lines and catheters, and in arteries, lungs and extremities, including the toes. Yet the mechanisms underlying coagulation disorders in patients with COVID-19 are still unknown.
https://hms.harvard.edu/news/covid-19-blood-clots

And it's not just hospitalized patients:

Are clots a risk for people with mild cases of COVID-19?​

There are reports that clots are forming in people with COVID-19 who are at home and mobile — not just those lying flat in a hospital bed. But it’s not clear yet how common they are.

“When people are in the hospital, we’re more likely to do tests to look for clots. So we know more about this symptom in people with severe cases,” Dr. Tsuang explains. “In less ill patients who are recovering at home, we just don’t know yet.”
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/should-you-be-worried-about-blood-clots-with-covid-19/

These researchers looked at 150 consecutive ICU admissions with proven [2] COVID-19 infections. 11.7% of these patients developed clots, most often from clots that formed in the legs and traveled to the lungs, termed pulmonary emboli, further impairing the lungs' ability to absorb oxygen and release carbon dioxide. Matched patients with non-COVID acute respiratory distress syndrome, ARDS had a 4.8% incidence of DIC.
https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/04/28/why-are-covid-19-patients-dying-blood-clots-14747

So your chances of getting clots from the infection are about 117,000 times greater than your chance of getting clots from the vaccination. Pretty stiff odds, no?

I’ve heard a lot of experts who predicted fairly accurately the outcome of the government mandates. They are world renown experts in their field who understand. You can maintain the government narrative if that suits you. The predictions for the vaccinated are quite poor as compared to those who withstood the program. Time will tell.

It’s too difficult to continue the debate. But I appreciate you’re being civil. J likes to resort to gas lighting which makes a discussion difficult.

I will tell you what is predicted so you can watch. Covid cases will rise instead fall in this summer because those who took the injections have increased non-neutralizing antibodies which render a lower viral load able to cause disease. The virus hadn’t changed, the vaccinated population has.

The fear is that the virulence will also increase as these antibodies enhance the severity. This will be only for those who took the shots and boosters. Of course, official records change definitions refusing to acknowledge anyone but those who received their shots recently as “fully vaccinated” so that’s tricky. I mean people with two shots and two boosters are listed as“unvaccinated” if enough time has past. It isn’t science.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The data are very clear. Your chances of dying of COVID-19 are many times higher if you are not vaccinated. I can show you the data again, if you like. Now your chances are relatively low, even if you don't get vaccinated. About one out of every 350 Americans have died of COVID-19. Kinda like golfing in a thunderstorm or driving after drinking. You'll probably survive either way. And one can trust that God will take care of you, even if you are reckless. But why tempt God?

Just for clarity. If you got the shot and died with 24 hours of mysterious internal causes, it is NEVER the shots at fault. But if you were traveling back from testing and got killed by a bus, if you were positive you died of covid. I am not exaggerating.

 

[Barbarian]

Just for clarity. If you got the shot and died with 24 hours of mysterious internal causes, it is NEVER the shots at fault.

That's not what CDC says. You should probably know that anaphylaxis (a rare allergic reaction to immunization) almost always occurs within 30 minutes of the injection. In six years that I had an immunization/allergy clinic, it happened once. Very scary. When I got the cuff on him, his blood pressure was 60/0, and he said the room was getting dark. A quick hit of epinephrine got him back, but he spent the night in ICU, and had to be given epinephrine twice that night. No permanent consequences at all. But if we had let him leave right after the shot, he'd probably be dead. It's why CDC standards require the patient to wait at least 15 min after the injection.

But if you were traveling back from testing and got killed by a bus, if you were positive you died of covid.

I've heard that story before but so far, no one can substantiate it with a checkable source. What do you have? I do notice that anti-vaxxers cite the VAERS database to show that COVID-19 vaccine causes auto accidents. Is that what you mean?

 

[Barbarian]

I’ve heard a lot of experts who predicted fairly accurately the outcome of the government mandates. They are world renown experts in their field who understand.

But no one can name them. For reasons I think I understand. You can maintain the anti-vaxxer narrative if it suits you.

The fear is that the virulence will also increase as these antibodies enhance the severity.

Antibodies do not "enhance the severity." That's an assumption by people who do not understand how antibodies work. In fact, the evolution of pathogens is toward lowered severity, because of antibodies. The ideal case for an infectious microbe is to infect, but not harm the host. There is a tendency for both host and pathogen to evolve toward lower virulence. Not always; sometimes, as in cholera, virulence can help infectivity, and sometimes something just causes an increase in virulence for no apparent reason. But generally, longer association causes lower virulence.