Right... but nothing about the church teaching without error.
Only Christ(according to your references) is without error... not man nor the church.
The John 20:21-23 passage does not confer infallibility.
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
Defending the faith: A discussion of Catholic Doctrine
- Thread starter JLB
- Start date
Only Christ(according to your references) is without error... not man nor the church.
The John 20:21-23 passage does not confer infallibility.
We must be united to Him, members of Him in His new covenant church, knowledge of Him ain’t enough!
Effects of faith & baptism!
Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!
“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!
Faith and baptism!
Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!
Only James 2:24 a man is justified by works and not by “faith alone”
2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!
Do you know Him? You write alot about the church and today there are many stated but do you know Jesus?
The message of the gospels:
Thats eternal life: knowing the one true God and Jesus Christ who "He" sent.
How does God write this covenant on the hearts of the people that they would all "know" Him?
The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.” c
Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!I live through Christ. I have the Spirit of Christ in me. He's got my soul covered.
Prayer
Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. May your will be done on earth as in heaven.
If one of the 12 were capable of hearing my prayers, I know Jesus does, then would they not state, "who are you?"
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:
Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you
1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!
Not as you do.
He is the only begotten God or like to like begotten Son. The Father is the only true God or unbegotten God.
As is stated of Jesus: Col 1:19 Gifted from the will of another at a point in history. So the eternal life found in the Son is the Father and they are one as Jesus Himself testified. Just as if you belong to Christ you are the seed of Abraham the Father is in the Son and Jesus is the first and last. And since the fullness of the God the Father dwells/lives in the Son Jesus is the radiance of Gods glory and the imprint of Gods very being. The image of the invisible God. The only begotten God.
But God has no parent. Though Jesus has a Father if you believe in Him.
So no matter how much you try to logic it God has no mother. So why would I call another the mother of God?
Prayers and intercession of the saints!
God of the living!
Matthew 22:32
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Jn 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Only one mediator?
1 Tim 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
NOT found in the Bible are..........
“prayer to saints”
1st we don’t pray to saints, our prayers are directed to God (who alone can hear and answer prayer) thru the intercession of the saints rev 5:8 with the ministering angels. Heb 1:14
Jesus Christ is the Head of the church Eph 5:23 the only mediator 1 Tim 2:5 and chief intercessor, makes intercession for the saints! (The church) Rom 8:26-27 8:34 heb 7:25
The saints also make intercession!
1 Timothy 2:1
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
Revelation 5:8
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Revelation 8:3
And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
Revelation 8:4
And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
James 5:16 …The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
Jn 11:25 (the saints are alive) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Lk 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
All generations call me blessed! Lk 1:
Thanksgiving in praise of Mary for bearing our savior! Matt 1:23 And finding our salvation! Lk 1:30
Praise honor veneration and devotion redound to the Glory of God who created Mary immaculate Lk 1:49 as Christ source of all grace! Jn 1:16-17
Praise, honor, veneration, and devotion are not worship, worship requires intent!
Mary all powerful advocate!
Help of Christian’s!
Mary ever virgin, mother of God, is all powerful in her prayers!
Mary’s prayers are all powerful not cos she is God but because her son is God!
and on becoming man He (Jesus) obeyed his own commandments
you might check out the one that says “honor Thy father and mother”
“My hour has not come”
The time set by almighty God for the public ministry of Christ had not come, Jesus Christ still performed the miracle cos his mother interceded, thus a higher law, “honor thy father and mother” if ANYONE else asked it would NOT have been done!
John 2
and cos of her intercession the disciples believed in Him!
Jn 2:11
We should be grieved by the manifold sins of mankind that offend our God! If we love God!
make reparation and recompense as far as we can by prayer and sacrifice!
also not forgetting to pray for the conversion of sinners!
Eternal Father, I offer Thee the precious blood of Jesus!
Precious blood of Jesus, save us!
Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
2 Corinthians 1:6
And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
Phil 1:19
For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,
Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing
James 5:16 the prayer of a righteous man avails much…
Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
Rev 5:8 the prayers of the saints…
God of the living!
Matthew 22:32
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Jn 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Only one mediator?
1 Tim 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
NOT found in the Bible are..........
“prayer to saints”
1st we don’t pray to saints, our prayers are directed to God (who alone can hear and answer prayer) thru the intercession of the saints rev 5:8 with the ministering angels. Heb 1:14
Jesus Christ is the Head of the church Eph 5:23 the only mediator 1 Tim 2:5 and chief intercessor, makes intercession for the saints! (The church) Rom 8:26-27 8:34 heb 7:25
The saints also make intercession!
1 Timothy 2:1
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
Revelation 5:8
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Revelation 8:3
And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
Revelation 8:4
And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
James 5:16 …The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
Jn 11:25 (the saints are alive) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Lk 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
All generations call me blessed! Lk 1:
Thanksgiving in praise of Mary for bearing our savior! Matt 1:23 And finding our salvation! Lk 1:30
Praise honor veneration and devotion redound to the Glory of God who created Mary immaculate Lk 1:49 as Christ source of all grace! Jn 1:16-17
Praise, honor, veneration, and devotion are not worship, worship requires intent!
Mary all powerful advocate!
Help of Christian’s!
Mary ever virgin, mother of God, is all powerful in her prayers!
Mary’s prayers are all powerful not cos she is God but because her son is God!
and on becoming man He (Jesus) obeyed his own commandments
you might check out the one that says “honor Thy father and mother”
“My hour has not come”
The time set by almighty God for the public ministry of Christ had not come, Jesus Christ still performed the miracle cos his mother interceded, thus a higher law, “honor thy father and mother” if ANYONE else asked it would NOT have been done!
John 2
and cos of her intercession the disciples believed in Him!
Jn 2:11
We should be grieved by the manifold sins of mankind that offend our God! If we love God!
make reparation and recompense as far as we can by prayer and sacrifice!
also not forgetting to pray for the conversion of sinners!
Eternal Father, I offer Thee the precious blood of Jesus!
Precious blood of Jesus, save us!
Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
2 Corinthians 1:6
And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
Phil 1:19
For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,
Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing
James 5:16 the prayer of a righteous man avails much…
Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
Rev 5:8 the prayers of the saints…
I was baptized in a Lutheran church as a infant in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But more important then that I was steered to Christ from my beginning and have believed in Him as far back as my memory goes and I state to you "Jesus" is the only way to the Father.
My faith is in Christ. I know He cares for me. I know He hears and answers my prayers and I know He is the head of the body of Christ.
The eastern church still states the Spirit proceeds from the Father. They also state they were from the beginning.
I won't respond to all the verses quoted (out of context) because I (and I'm certain others on the forum) own a Bible.
However, you did write these statements...
Praise, honor, veneration, and devotion are not worship, worship requires intent!
This doesn't mean anything. All actions require intent (unless you're a robot)
Mary all powerful advocate! Help of Christian’s!
There is nothing in the Bible that says that Mary is an all-powerful advocate and the help of Christians.
Mary ever virgin, mother of God, is all powerful in her prayers!
There is nothing in the Bible that says that Mary is "ever virgin". In fact, Joseph and Mary had intercourse and Jesus
had brothers and sisters.
There is nothing in the Bible that says that Mary is "help of Christians".
Mary’s prayers are all powerful not cos she is God but because her son is God!
There is nothing in the Bible that says that Mary’s prayers are all powerful. And she is not God!
There are many Catholic myths that are not supported in the Bible. Sola scriptura.
But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. 1 John 2:27
This scripture plainly says… the anointing which you have received from Him
This anointing that we have received from Him, teaches us concerning all things.
If a person has received the anointing then that anointing they have received teaches them concerning all things.
JLB
No.
Not a church.
Jesus Christ founded His Church He built and is building.
He doesn’t found denominations, such as Catholicism, of Baptist, or Methodist or Lutheran …
Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
Matthew 16:18
The rock He is building His church upon is that God the Father reveals that Jesus is the Christ is the Son of the living God. This same anointing teaches us and leads and guides us into all truth.
But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. 1 John 2:27
JLB
It sounds like you are making a distinction without a difference.
If I build a birdhouse... I would refer to it as "my birdhouse".
I build it the way I want it and with my vision in its design.
So Christ's Church is "a" Church that Christ founded.
Started with 12 guys... Judas included in that number... and now is a bit larger in size. But that happens with time.
No, He has not changed the pattern nor the way His Church functions with the power of His Spirit.
There is only one church; The church, His church.
JLB
We the Church are His bride.
“For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Ephesians 5:31-32
We the Church are not our own mother.
JLB
There are many Christain denominations that preach the gospel message. Can you state which do not belong to Jesus? Only He knows that answer. Gone are the days when the church held the testimony close to their breast and dispensed teaching with our way or hell. The testimony at cost of life was translated into many languages for the common man to read for themselves what Jesus and the apostles taught.
It's not the church that gives life. I went to Jesus and received such life. I follow Him.
John 5:39-40
You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
The church is not a Bible study but a covenant
Same mission power and authority as christ Jn 20:21
The church is an extension of Christ!
The scripture says many of the same things of the apostles (the church) as Christ!
Light of the world: Jn 8:12 / Matt 5:14
Hear: Matt 17:5 / Matt 18:17
Authority: Matt 28:17 / Jn 20:21
Reconciliation: 2 cor 5:19 / 2 cor 5:18
Forgive sins: Lk 5:20 / Jn 20:23
Truth: Jn 14:6 / 1 Tim 3:15
Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!
Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1
The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15
Scripture does Lk 1:43