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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Defending the faith: A discussion of Catholic Doctrine
- Thread starter JLB
- Start date
Here is a Protestant version
Genesis 3:15
Wycliffe Bible
15 I shall set enmities betwixt thee and the woman, and betwixt thy seed and her seed; she shall break thine head, and thou shalt set ambushes to her heel. (I shall put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; her seed shall break thy head, and thou shalt set ambush to her seed’s heel.)The Father is the only unbegotten God. "eternal" -yes
The Son is the only like to like begotten Son from the Father "eternal" -yes
I dont read commentary or creeds from denominations to establish doctrinal truth.
Scripture: the doctrine of Christ.
JLB
Yes indeed I oppose man's council and traditions, in favor of scripture.
When the scripture plainly states His mother, His brothers, and His sisters, then that tells me what I need to know.
You can believe whatever you choose.
JLB
There is no reason from the testimony (NT) not to assume the named brothers of the Lord and unnamed sisters of the Lord in His hometown of Nazareth along with Joseph and Mary are not also by Mary. Especially since when Joseph and Mary traveled to Bethlehem to register for the census, as Joseph was of the house of David, no other children were noted with them. Nor when they fled into Egypt. We know and believe Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus and that's the importance. But there are better things to do then try to convince people it would be lawful, reasonable, and most likely the case that after Jesus's birth Mary had normal relations with her lawful husband. If the church states otherwise its not by any given scripture. A created tradition from man.
This is yet another thread about Catholic mythology.
Everything posted is not in the bible.
Everything posted is not in the bible.
How can there be an eternal father without an eternal son?
The term "Trinity" is not found in the Bible.
I use Godhead.
Jesus was already God before Mary was ever born.
He created the heavens and the earth.
He spoke through the mouth of the prophets.
He appeared to Moses as I AM.
JLB
Christ and His church are one! To oppose the church or her authority or doctrine is to oppose Christ who founded established and revealed the truth!
The scripture says many of the same things of the apostles (the church) as Christ!
Light of the world: Jn 8:12 / Matt 5:14
Hear: Matt 17:5 / Matt 18:17
Authority: Matt 28:17 / Jn 20:21
Reconciliation: 2 cor 5:19 / 2 cor 5:18
Forgive sins: Lk 5:20 / Jn 20:23
Truth: Jn 14:6 / 1 Tim 3:15
Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!
Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1
The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15
The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22
Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15
Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!
1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema
Extends to the truth and the church
Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13
Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32
It is the truth!
Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)
Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 15:1-5)
More to follow
Perpetual Virginity of Mary!
Dogma
Holy apostolic authority in the council of the church!
The official acts of the Fifth Ecumenical Council held at Constantinople in 553 refer to Mary as aeiparthenos (i.e. ever-virgin). For example, an anathema against the 'three chapters' condemns those who deny:
that nativity of these latter days when the Word of God came down from the heavens and was made flesh of holy and glorious Mary, mother of God and ever-virgin, and was born from her ...
The Lateran Council of 649 convened by Pope Martin I also issued an important statement affirming Mary's lifelong virginity:
If anyone does not, according to the Holy Fathers, confess truly and properly that holy Mary, ever virgin and immaculate, is Mother of God, since in this latter age she conceived in true reality without human seed from the Holy Spirit, God the Word Himself, who before the ages was born of God the Father, and gave birth to Him without corruption, her virginity remaining equally inviolate after the birth, let him be condemned.
Only Christ is born of Mary according to scripture!
Matt 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
Only one son!
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
Thee son of Mary! Singular!
Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary…
Singular!
Gen 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
Seed: singular only one!
Matt 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
Only christ is born of Mary according to scripture:
Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary according to scripture:
Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
A son singular
Biblical principles
Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”
Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
A son singular not a family:
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Only the God-man is born of a Virgin-mother
Perpetual Virginity of Mary!
Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649) with the jurisdictional authority of Peter and the apostles in holy council! Matt 16:18 18:18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20 bound on earth bound in heaven!
The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!
And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!
Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)
Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”
Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
(Mary had become the temple & dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)
Dogma
Holy apostolic authority in the council of the church!
The official acts of the Fifth Ecumenical Council held at Constantinople in 553 refer to Mary as aeiparthenos (i.e. ever-virgin). For example, an anathema against the 'three chapters' condemns those who deny:
that nativity of these latter days when the Word of God came down from the heavens and was made flesh of holy and glorious Mary, mother of God and ever-virgin, and was born from her ...
The Lateran Council of 649 convened by Pope Martin I also issued an important statement affirming Mary's lifelong virginity:
If anyone does not, according to the Holy Fathers, confess truly and properly that holy Mary, ever virgin and immaculate, is Mother of God, since in this latter age she conceived in true reality without human seed from the Holy Spirit, God the Word Himself, who before the ages was born of God the Father, and gave birth to Him without corruption, her virginity remaining equally inviolate after the birth, let him be condemned.
Only Christ is born of Mary according to scripture!
Matt 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
Only one son!
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
Thee son of Mary! Singular!
Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary…
Singular!
Gen 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
Seed: singular only one!
Matt 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
Only christ is born of Mary according to scripture:
Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary according to scripture:
Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
A son singular
Biblical principles
Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”
Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
A son singular not a family:
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Only the God-man is born of a Virgin-mother
Perpetual Virginity of Mary!
Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649) with the jurisdictional authority of Peter and the apostles in holy council! Matt 16:18 18:18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20 bound on earth bound in heaven!
The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!
And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!
Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)
Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”
Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
(Mary had become the temple & dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)
Define Church.
Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)
Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (only Jesus is savior)
Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!
Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)
Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)
Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)
Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.
2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?
Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!
Lk 1:34 no sex ever!
First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!
The Bible says Joseph a just and therefore a chaste man, it does not say he has gone into Mary anywhere in scripture, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him. Gen 4:1 Adam knew his wife, Lk 1:34 betrothed to Joseph say “I know no man, scripture Never says this about a Joseph, for He was full of fear and reverence for Her immaculate purity and holiness! Especially after hearing from an angel that her child was of the Holy Spirit! Joseph was full of joy to be the guardian of Mary and her purity!
Isa 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
11 That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
12 For thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem
Adam and Eve were married in the garden but did not have sex, marriage is made by consent not sex!
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.
Eve was a virgin in the garden but never called a virgin cos she did not remain a perpetual virgin!
Brothers and sisters of Jesus?
They are not the children of Mary!
Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)
James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3
In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.
Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..
Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.
The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They had 4 mother’s, These may be brothers but they are simply not the children of One mother and the brothers of Jesus are not the children of Mary!
Brothers of Jesus Not the children of Mary!
Matthew 13:55
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
Matthew 27:56
Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedees children.
Acts 4:36
And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
(Cannot be Mary’s child, Mary was of the tribe of Judah and the royal house of David the king!) Lk 1:32-33
Is Mary the mother of James?
If you mean the Blessed Virgin Mary then no. Her sister-in-law, Mary of Clopas, was the wife of Alphaeus (St. Joseph's brother), and mother of Simon, Joseph, and the apostles Judas Thaddeus, and James (the Less, brother of the Lord): Jesus' cousins.
The "sisters" of Jesus refer to women disciples
Salome, or Mary Salome, was the wife of Zebedee, and mother of apostles John (the beloved), and James (the greater).
Regarding Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, two of the four "brethren" are James and Judas of Alphaeus (cf. Mat. 10:2-3, Lk. 6:15-16, Act. 1:13). The third, Joseph, is identified in Mk. 15:40 as the brother of James of Alphaeus. The fourth, Simon, is identified in Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 as the brother of Joseph, James, and Judas of Alphaeus. Therefore, all four are were the sons of Alphaeus, not St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin Mary.
When Jesus was twelve they went up to Jerusalem, the holy family, Joseph, Mary, and Jesus. Where are the brothers and sisters?
Jesus on the cross gives His mother to John, why? Why not James or a brother? Perhaps the law of Moses requires a mother to be given to the next oldest son? Because he was an only Son!
Only begotten of the Father, only begotten of the Mother.
Only God can be born of a Virgin-mother!
First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!
Martin Luther
It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)
John Calvin
(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)
[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)
Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])
John Wesley
‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).
St Augustine, Sermons 186.1 (early 5th century):
“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).
“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).
“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).
St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):
"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.
(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)
Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (only Jesus is savior)
Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!
Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)
Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)
Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)
Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.
2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?
Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!
Lk 1:34 no sex ever!
First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!
The Bible says Joseph a just and therefore a chaste man, it does not say he has gone into Mary anywhere in scripture, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him. Gen 4:1 Adam knew his wife, Lk 1:34 betrothed to Joseph say “I know no man, scripture Never says this about a Joseph, for He was full of fear and reverence for Her immaculate purity and holiness! Especially after hearing from an angel that her child was of the Holy Spirit! Joseph was full of joy to be the guardian of Mary and her purity!
Isa 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
11 That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
12 For thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem
Adam and Eve were married in the garden but did not have sex, marriage is made by consent not sex!
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.
Eve was a virgin in the garden but never called a virgin cos she did not remain a perpetual virgin!
Brothers and sisters of Jesus?
They are not the children of Mary!
Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)
James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3
In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.
Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..
Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.
The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They had 4 mother’s, These may be brothers but they are simply not the children of One mother and the brothers of Jesus are not the children of Mary!
Brothers of Jesus Not the children of Mary!
Matthew 13:55
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
Matthew 27:56
Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedees children.
Acts 4:36
And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
(Cannot be Mary’s child, Mary was of the tribe of Judah and the royal house of David the king!) Lk 1:32-33
Is Mary the mother of James?
If you mean the Blessed Virgin Mary then no. Her sister-in-law, Mary of Clopas, was the wife of Alphaeus (St. Joseph's brother), and mother of Simon, Joseph, and the apostles Judas Thaddeus, and James (the Less, brother of the Lord): Jesus' cousins.
The "sisters" of Jesus refer to women disciples
Salome, or Mary Salome, was the wife of Zebedee, and mother of apostles John (the beloved), and James (the greater).
Regarding Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, two of the four "brethren" are James and Judas of Alphaeus (cf. Mat. 10:2-3, Lk. 6:15-16, Act. 1:13). The third, Joseph, is identified in Mk. 15:40 as the brother of James of Alphaeus. The fourth, Simon, is identified in Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 as the brother of Joseph, James, and Judas of Alphaeus. Therefore, all four are were the sons of Alphaeus, not St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin Mary.
When Jesus was twelve they went up to Jerusalem, the holy family, Joseph, Mary, and Jesus. Where are the brothers and sisters?
Jesus on the cross gives His mother to John, why? Why not James or a brother? Perhaps the law of Moses requires a mother to be given to the next oldest son? Because he was an only Son!
Only begotten of the Father, only begotten of the Mother.
Only God can be born of a Virgin-mother!
First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!
Martin Luther
It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)
John Calvin
(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)
[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)
Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])
John Wesley
‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).
St Augustine, Sermons 186.1 (early 5th century):
“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).
“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).
“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).
St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):
"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.
St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):
"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.
For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.
“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.
“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.
“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.
“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."
The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!
Matt 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Gal 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
The heir! singular! Only one!
If Christ had brothers they would be heir and king!
The holy church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always taught the perpetual virginity of Mary most holy even the so-called reformers!
Prominent Early Christian Testimonials w/ Scriptural References
I. "Mary the wife of Cleophas or Alphaeus (Clopas), who was the mother of James the bishop and apostle, and of Simon and Thaddeus (Jude/Judas), and of one Joseph." (Papias of Hierapolis [c. 60–130 AD], Fragment of Papias, Frag. 10, cf. Jn. 19:25)
II. "...James, who is called the brother of the Lord ... as appears to me, the son of Mary sister of the mother of our Lord ... after ordained by the apostles bishop of Jerusalem, wrote a single epistle, which is reckoned among the seven Catholic epistles" (cf. Jud. 1:1) and "...Mary who is described as the mother of James the Less was the wife of Alphaeus and sister of Mary the Lord's mother" (Jerome of Stridon [c. 347–420 CE], De Viris Illustribus, De Perpetua Uirginitate Beatae Mariae, cf. Jn. 19:25)
III. Eusebius of Caesarea [c. 260–340 AD] relates the following in his Historia Ecclesiastica:
James, the brother of the Lord, was the "...author of the first of the so-called catholic epistles" and that while it is disputed, "as is the case likewise with the epistle that bears the name of Jude, which is also one of the seven so-called catholic epistles," it is known they have been "...read publicly in very many churches." (Bk. I, ch. 23, cf. Jud. 1:1)
"James ... surnamed the Just ... bishop of the church of Jerusalem. This James was called the brother of the Lord..." and "Paul also makes mention of the same James the Just, where he writes, 'Other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.'" (Bk. II, ch. 1)
"...those of the apostles and disciples of the Lord ... with those that were related to the Lord according to the flesh ... pronounced Symeon (Simon), the son of Clopas ... to be worthy of the episcopal throne of that parish. He was a cousin, as they say, of the Saviour. For Hegesippus records that Clopas was a brother of Joseph." (Bk. III, ch. 11)
"Josephus, at least, has not hesitated to testify this in his writings, where he says, 'These things happened to the Jews to avenge James the Just, who was a brother of Jesus, that is called the Christ.'" (Bk. II, ch. 23)
"...the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James" (Flavius Josephus [c. 37-100 CE], Antiquitates Iudaicae, Bk. XX, ch. 9)
"...James the Just bishop of Jerusalem" and "...but there were two Jameses: one called the Just ... thrown from the pinnacle of the temple ... and beaten to death with a club by a fuller, and another who was beheaded." (Bk. II, ch. 1) (Clement of Alexandria [c. 150–215 AD], Hypotyposes, Bk. VII, cf. Ac. 12:1-2)
"...James the brother of the Lord, succeeded to the government of the Church ... called the Just ..." (Bk. II, ch. 23) and "after James the Just had suffered martyrdom ... Symeon (Simon), the son of the Lord's uncle, Clopas, was appointed the next bishop ... because he was a cousin of the Lord." (Bk. III, ch. 22) (Hegesippus [c. 110-180 AD], Hypomnemata)
Additional Scriptural Support
The aforementioned teaching that the mother of James, Simon, Joseph, and Jude (Judas/Thaddeus) of Alphaeus (Cleophas/Clopas)
was Mary of Cleophas/Clopas (Alphaeus), Jesus's mother's sister (in-law), is supported by the following verses:
"his mother's sister, Mary of Cleophas" (Jn. 19:25)
"Mary, mother of James" (Mk. 16:1)
"Mary of James" (Lk. 24:10)
"Mary, mother of James and Joseph" (Matt. 27:56)
"Mary, mother of James the Less and Joseph" (Mk. 15:40)
If at the very least you agree "James" in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 63 and the apostle "James" in Gal. 1:19 were the same,
consider the two of the twelve apostles named "James:"
Apostle James, son of Zebedee, whose brother [sibling] was Apostle John, and their mother is only known to have been the mother of "the sons of Zebedee." Thus it is indisputable that of the two this James-apostle doesn't correlate with the "James" in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and Gal. 1:19. (Matt. 4:21;20:20;27:56, Mk. 1:19;3:17;10:35, Lk. 5:10, Ac. 12:1-2)
Apostle James, son of Alphaeus, whose brothers [siblings] were Apostle Jude (Judas/Thaddeus) and Joseph. Thus it is indisputable that of the two this James-apostle correlates more with "James" in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and Gal. 1:19. (Matt. 10:3, Mk. 3:18, Lk. 6:15-16, Ac. 1:13)
Summary
The scriptural verses and testimonials of prominent early Christians above together illustrate "James" in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, "James the brother of the Lord," "Apostle James of Alphaeus," "James the Bishop of Jerusalem," "James the Less," "James the Just," and the author of the Epistle of James were the same, and that he, Simon, Joseph, and Jude (Judas/Thaddeus) were sons of Joseph's brother [sibling], Alphaeus (Cleophas/Clopas), and Mary of Joseph's sister-in-law, Mary of Cleophas/Clopas (Alphaeus), and thus Jesus's brothers, as in "kinsmen," specifically cousins
"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.
For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.
“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.
“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.
“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.
“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."
The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!
Matt 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Gal 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
The heir! singular! Only one!
If Christ had brothers they would be heir and king!
The holy church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always taught the perpetual virginity of Mary most holy even the so-called reformers!
Prominent Early Christian Testimonials w/ Scriptural References
I. "Mary the wife of Cleophas or Alphaeus (Clopas), who was the mother of James the bishop and apostle, and of Simon and Thaddeus (Jude/Judas), and of one Joseph." (Papias of Hierapolis [c. 60–130 AD], Fragment of Papias, Frag. 10, cf. Jn. 19:25)
II. "...James, who is called the brother of the Lord ... as appears to me, the son of Mary sister of the mother of our Lord ... after ordained by the apostles bishop of Jerusalem, wrote a single epistle, which is reckoned among the seven Catholic epistles" (cf. Jud. 1:1) and "...Mary who is described as the mother of James the Less was the wife of Alphaeus and sister of Mary the Lord's mother" (Jerome of Stridon [c. 347–420 CE], De Viris Illustribus, De Perpetua Uirginitate Beatae Mariae, cf. Jn. 19:25)
III. Eusebius of Caesarea [c. 260–340 AD] relates the following in his Historia Ecclesiastica:
James, the brother of the Lord, was the "...author of the first of the so-called catholic epistles" and that while it is disputed, "as is the case likewise with the epistle that bears the name of Jude, which is also one of the seven so-called catholic epistles," it is known they have been "...read publicly in very many churches." (Bk. I, ch. 23, cf. Jud. 1:1)
"James ... surnamed the Just ... bishop of the church of Jerusalem. This James was called the brother of the Lord..." and "Paul also makes mention of the same James the Just, where he writes, 'Other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.'" (Bk. II, ch. 1)
"...those of the apostles and disciples of the Lord ... with those that were related to the Lord according to the flesh ... pronounced Symeon (Simon), the son of Clopas ... to be worthy of the episcopal throne of that parish. He was a cousin, as they say, of the Saviour. For Hegesippus records that Clopas was a brother of Joseph." (Bk. III, ch. 11)
"Josephus, at least, has not hesitated to testify this in his writings, where he says, 'These things happened to the Jews to avenge James the Just, who was a brother of Jesus, that is called the Christ.'" (Bk. II, ch. 23)
"...the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James" (Flavius Josephus [c. 37-100 CE], Antiquitates Iudaicae, Bk. XX, ch. 9)
"...James the Just bishop of Jerusalem" and "...but there were two Jameses: one called the Just ... thrown from the pinnacle of the temple ... and beaten to death with a club by a fuller, and another who was beheaded." (Bk. II, ch. 1) (Clement of Alexandria [c. 150–215 AD], Hypotyposes, Bk. VII, cf. Ac. 12:1-2)
"...James the brother of the Lord, succeeded to the government of the Church ... called the Just ..." (Bk. II, ch. 23) and "after James the Just had suffered martyrdom ... Symeon (Simon), the son of the Lord's uncle, Clopas, was appointed the next bishop ... because he was a cousin of the Lord." (Bk. III, ch. 22) (Hegesippus [c. 110-180 AD], Hypomnemata)
Additional Scriptural Support
The aforementioned teaching that the mother of James, Simon, Joseph, and Jude (Judas/Thaddeus) of Alphaeus (Cleophas/Clopas)
was Mary of Cleophas/Clopas (Alphaeus), Jesus's mother's sister (in-law), is supported by the following verses:
"his mother's sister, Mary of Cleophas" (Jn. 19:25)
"Mary, mother of James" (Mk. 16:1)
"Mary of James" (Lk. 24:10)
"Mary, mother of James and Joseph" (Matt. 27:56)
"Mary, mother of James the Less and Joseph" (Mk. 15:40)
If at the very least you agree "James" in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 63 and the apostle "James" in Gal. 1:19 were the same,
consider the two of the twelve apostles named "James:"
Apostle James, son of Zebedee, whose brother [sibling] was Apostle John, and their mother is only known to have been the mother of "the sons of Zebedee." Thus it is indisputable that of the two this James-apostle doesn't correlate with the "James" in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and Gal. 1:19. (Matt. 4:21;20:20;27:56, Mk. 1:19;3:17;10:35, Lk. 5:10, Ac. 12:1-2)
Apostle James, son of Alphaeus, whose brothers [siblings] were Apostle Jude (Judas/Thaddeus) and Joseph. Thus it is indisputable that of the two this James-apostle correlates more with "James" in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and Gal. 1:19. (Matt. 10:3, Mk. 3:18, Lk. 6:15-16, Ac. 1:13)
Summary
The scriptural verses and testimonials of prominent early Christians above together illustrate "James" in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, "James the brother of the Lord," "Apostle James of Alphaeus," "James the Bishop of Jerusalem," "James the Less," "James the Just," and the author of the Epistle of James were the same, and that he, Simon, Joseph, and Jude (Judas/Thaddeus) were sons of Joseph's brother [sibling], Alphaeus (Cleophas/Clopas), and Mary of Joseph's sister-in-law, Mary of Cleophas/Clopas (Alphaeus), and thus Jesus's brothers, as in "kinsmen," specifically cousins
False Dogma.
Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Christ.
Afterward she had sons and daughters with Joseph.
Since mother is used each time in the context, brother is plainly understood to mean son of my mother.
Then His mother and brothers came to Him, and could not approach Him because of the crowd. And it was told Him by some, who said, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.”
But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” Luke 8:19-21
Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this Man get all these things?”
Matthew 13:55-56
JLB