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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Fate... Free Will vs Predestination
- Thread starter Christ the King
- Start date
A person who is born again, must apply themselves to holiness.
Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1
I think a better question might be how can we be saved without being holy and without blame?
You guys are assuming that a person “in Christ” will permanently remain in Christ, until the end.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
This same John instructs us how a person is to remain “in Christ”.
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
JLB
You wrote -
Theodoret explains it to mean ploughing a straight furrow. Parry argues that the metaphor is the stone mason cutting the stones...
Cmon Oz.
Let’s please don’t do this meaningless back and forth.
You cited Parry... “Parry argues that the metaphor is the stone mason cutting the stones”.
Now you don’t know who Parry is???
Please tell me your not just copying stuff off the internet, then passing it off as your own.
Not Cool.
You are way too intelligent and knowledgeable for that.
Please, let’s study to show ourselves approved.
That means study the scriptures, not study other men’s commentary.
Please work with me on this.
JLB
atpollard
Member
You used it incorrectly because “all” is related to “beloved” (2 Peter 3:8) and “you” (2 Peter 3:9) ... not ‘all men without exception’. It is a common error when stripping verses from their context.
atpollard
Member
... and this is NOT a common theme found in scripture, but a common theme claimed by people.
atpollard
Member
I am forcing nothing. I merely refuse to deny the scripture that claims “God chose us” and substitute “we must choose God or grace is powerless to save us”.
If that is the unavoidable conclusion of scripture, then I will not reject it because “I want something else to be true”, rather I will accept it because “scripture says it”. If that is not the unavoidable conclusion, then so be it.
What I do not see is the scripture that says we are saved BECAUSE man makes a choice, or that God cannot save unless we first give our permission.
God makes commands and God claims to save. That is what I see over and over in scripture.
atpollard
Member
“Whoever believes” means just that. No more and no less.
It does not say “whoever chooses of their own free will to believe without any help from God”.
I happen to believe God when God says that those God foreknew (had a relationship with), God predestined and God called and God justified and God glorified. I believe God when God says that God made us alive when we were still dead. I believe God when God says that salvation by grace through faith is a GIFT from God. So I am convinced that “whoever believes” are those God “predestined” and “called” to believe and those to whom God gave the gift of “faith”. As John 6:44 puts it “whosoever” the Father draws .... will “believe” in the Son.
You are free to disagree until Jesus returns, but what I believe (what ‘Calvinism’ teaches) IS what Scripture teaches. No, it is not “fair”, but it is God breathed.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, Ephesians 1:3-4
Ok can you accept that this scripture says...just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
It plainly says He chose us in Him that we should be holy and blameless.
JLB
Very simple.
Judas was destined to rule with Christ, and the others, just as this scripture reveals.
So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28
God’s foreknowledge of the choice Judas would make to betray Jesus was proclaimed through the prophets.
You make the mistake of thinking that when God predestines someone for a purpose, that automatically means they are saved and will remain saved not matter what.
This is what I mean by you are trying to force the idea that if a person is predestined because of God’s foreknowledge, he somehow has no choice if he is saved or not; has no ability to choose to either obey the Lord or fall away.
Judas was predestined to reign with Christ.
Judas followed Jesus for three and a half years as a disciple.
Judas was promoted to an Apostle.
Judas was sent out to preach the Gospel to the lost, and heal the sick, raise the dead, and cast out devils.
And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.
These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as you go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.
Matthew 10:1-8
Judas then BECAME a traitor.
Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot who also became a traitor. Luke 6:16
Judas was the one thing; a follower of Jesus Christ.
He then became something else; a traitor
JLB
atpollard
Member
Yes, although the original has no emphasis on “that”. In fact “that” is not even a word on the original text, it appears to be linked to “ἡμᾶς” (“that we”).
However, I agree that God chose us.
I agree that God chose us “in Christ”.
I agree that God chose us to be before Him without blame.
Here are some other translations (just to compare how other experts rendered the same Greek into English):
[Eph 1:3-4]
- [KJV] 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
- [NLT] 3 All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ. 4 Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.
- [NIV] 3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
- [NASB] 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
- [YLT] 3 Blessed [is] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who did bless us in every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 according as He did choose us in him before the foundation of the world, for our being holy and unblemished before Him, in love,
- [DBY] 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ; 4 according as he has chosen us in him before [the] world's foundation, that we should be holy and blameless before him in love;
DBY] 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ; 4 according as he has chosen us in him before [the] world's foundation, that we should be holy and blameless before him in love;
Yes, that we should be holy.
Can a person who is in Christ, remain in Christ if he is unholy, or unrighteous and disobedient?
Remember, here is how we are instructed to remain in Christ.
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
again, here is who will receive eternal salvation —
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9
- He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.
Not who is predestined, but who obeys Him.
JLB
It was predetermined that the 12 would reign with Christ upon twelve thrones, Judas being one of them.
JLB
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Who is stripping verses from their context?
2 Peter 3:5-10
5They deliberately forget that God made the heavens long ago by the word of his command, and he brought the earth out from the water and surrounded it with water.
6Then he used the water to destroy the ancient world with a mighty flood.
7And by the same word, the present heavens and earth have been stored up for fire. They are being kept for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed.
Peter is talking about the end of the world,,,as I stated in my previous post.
God already ended the world once, with a mighty flood, and He will do this again at some time in the future, this time with fire.
8But you must not forget this one thing, dear friends: A day is like a thousand years to the Lord, and a thousand years is like a day.
Here Peter is speaking to other Christians,,,telling them that we cannot know when Jesus will return because our time is different.
9The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.
Here Peter is still speaking to Christians.
He is telling them that God is being patient for the sake of the scoffers in verse 3.
Christians are ALREADY SAVED and do not NEED TO REPENT AGAIN.
So WHO is the everyone that God is waiting to repent?
Again,,,the scoffers in verse 3.
10But the day of the Lord will come as unexpectedly as a thief. Then the heavens will pass away with a terrible noise, and the very elements themselves will disappear in fire, and the earth and everything on it will be found to deserve judgment.a
Please see verse 15-16 when Peter tells the Christians that God is waiting so that the message of the gospel could be disseminated to offer salvation to others.
Christians already know the good news...
it is for the UNSAVED.
THE "ALL" IN PETER 3:9 IS NOT REFERRING TO CHRISTIANS...
BUT TO ALL WHO WILL ACCEPT THE GOSPEL WHEN THEY HEAR IT,,AS IN VERSES 15-16.
Yes, please notice the context of 2 Peter 3:9