Forum Poll

[UberMink]

As many easy believers believe that obedience has no part to play in Christian salvation, so do I strongly believe that EASY BELIEVISM is a heresy Crafted by the devil himself to deceive all believers of that false doctrine into complacency ( rather than compliance) and for them to become ineffective, contemptuous and judgmental and above all SINFUL-- with NO fear that their "salvation" can ever be lost!.

I think where you and another make your error is to impart there are members here who are not in Christ because they do not concede you are utterly correct in your statements.
Perhaps the message you and another attempt to deliver is poorly worded due to lack of understanding or inability to communicate clearly. What you are appearing to insist upon, as is that other writer, is that salvation is conditional. That there are characteristic behaviors a Christian must demonstrate in order to keep themselves firmly secure in Christ. That they must act a certain way to stay saved.

Whereas , being redeemed in the Lord, being rebirthed into a new creation, being washed clean of the former self and its sins, and rising as a new creature indwelt with the sacred holy spirit of God and the leading thereof, makes that reborn eternally saved, eternally alive soul of that individual now in the body of Christ one who has the innate characteristics the Lord's spirit installs into their consciousness.
They do not obey because they are consciously aware there are terms and conditions beholding them so as to avoid Hell.As you and another seem to want to impart.

Rather, those who are alive in Christ and are informed by the sacred holy spirit of God as such live the doctrine of obedience, of acts of humility and charity in all that they do and everywhere they go because as that newly born creation they are inextricably linked with the goodness that is God.

Theirs is not a conscious awareness of acting conditionally in order to hold to something given them that can be retrieved at the first faltering step.

Theirs is an interweaving of their beingness and that of the holiness that took up residence within them when they answered the voice calling them in the wilderness and allowed to enter the holy spirit. In faith and in trust. It is a relationship that is eternally alive. The conviction of the holy spirit made that inextricable bond between believer and God.

What you and another here champion as your personal belief does not appear to be aware of that.

Adding these scriptures according to the rules here.
Romans 8
Romans 11:29
Daniel 6

 

[UberMink]

 

[PeterJens]

I wonder what people want when they say because Christ said we must drink His blood and eat His flesh,
we are not cannibals. Is that not what Jesus meant?
Or when He said if we believe in Him we will never die, he meant that we are eternal then and there.
People want a simple statement, to seal a contract. But there is always the small print.
And the small print is the whole building of which Christ is the cornerstone. This includes repentance, confession,
sacrifice, obedience, trials, transformation, worship, communion, meditation, learning understanding and a lot more.

Men and women set off believing, then went wrong, were judged and died.
God is wild, destructive, loving, righteous, merciful, just, consistent, true.
We are untrustworthy, sinners, lost, blind, self justifiers, compromisers, defensive, angry, hurt, and in deep need.

When things go wrong, who is the cause? Man or God?
Who is the judge? Who has to find and see Gods will from a pure heart?

What amazes me is when people get so aggressive and see evil where there is none, condemn good behaviour
and those who desire to walk in the ways of Jesus. There is something deeply wrong if these people claim to
be in sin, not able to walk as Jesus walked, and condemn those who are shinning as lights to Gods grace and
work. What is driving this approach, and the strength of emotion that is so strong and condemning.

Some of these folk suggest believing in walking in Jesus's ways is the worst evil anyone could do, worse than
murder or the most heinous crimes. Unfortunately such talk belongs to mass murders and genocides of the past.
It makes me wonder what is at work here, and how distorted this hatred has become.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Perhaps the message you and another attempt to deliver is poorly worded due to lack of understanding or inability to communicate clearly.

That's personal attack lady, I can write the same for you , but I wont. Please do not attack if you cannot answer a simple ( yet pertinent ) question , I ask since it check mates the easy believism doctrine
Here goes my question to you . Why didn't Christ answer the Rich man and the teacher of the law with BELIEVE IN ME when they asked him what shall we do to inherit eternal life? Why did Christ ask them to obey instead?

 

[UberMink]

I wonder what people want when they say because Christ said we must drink His blood and eat His flesh,
we are not cannibals. Is that not what Jesus meant?

Is that what Emmanuel did? Did he give a piece of his flesh and a chalice of his blood to those who were with him in the upper chamber? That they then eat and drink of it?
No.
Emmanuel taught in parables and the bread of life is what he was to this world then and forever. Bread was his body, wine was his blood. Symbolism, just as his parable form of teaching was.

God is not contained in structures made by human hands. The church , again symbolism, is the individual faithful in total who hold as indwelt holy spirit filled people and believers, to the covenant of eternal salvation and life in Christ.
God's ways are not man's ways. And man's ways are not God's ways.

The edifice that man made and for which other men were to swear fidelity is not of God nor is it God's ways. As God said. He is not found in structures made by men. And yet the world over there are men that believe in the church that is of man.
And they believe in consuming flesh and blood at the hands and appointment of other men in ritual.
And after all those trappings within the edifice of man's construct are passed away those faithful to it still have penance to do because the blood of the worlds savior was deemed not to have actually covered enough.

Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

 

[UberMink]

That's personal attack lady

You are in error again. It is the personal opinion of one who reads your writing and the message you seek to communicate. As I stated.

I will not further engage inflammatory personal insults toward my faith.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

You are in error again. It is the personal opinion of one who reads your writing and the message you seek to communicate. As I stated.

I will not further engage inflammatory personal insults toward my faith.

You haven't replied to my question. That's all that matters to me. Answer to this pertinent question which demolishes the easy believism doctrine , which is heresy IMO

 

[PeterJens]

Hank Haanegraaff is claiming Heb 6 is only addressing Jews who did not really know Christ, but went
back to Judaism after some contact with christianity, so is not about born again believers.

This is absurd, because elsewhere Paul is anxious to point out faith is only of value if it is kept to
the end, through everything else it is in vain.

The reason why OSAS cling on so desperately to their security is because they do not truly know Christ
or how much He loves them or what it is all about, but the fear of death and their failure is so great, any
reassurance is better than none. It is like being in a bad marriage with many affairs and cheating on the
side, wondering if ones spouse will pull the plug or not. Israel did this continually, and God waited until
He pulled the plug. Love and the cross are real, and they demand a response, a real change, a real growth,
and this is our sealing in Christ.

We know we are His because we do what He commands.

We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.
The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. 1 John 2:3-5

How do people short circuit this in their minds? Obeying God is believing in His son.
They ignore loving ones neighbour. How can anyone do this unless they are wilfully blind?

 

[Papa Zoom]

Chuck Colson wrote the book, The Body and in it talks about how the Body of Christ ought to be. In one story, there was a church split, and it came to a head one Sunday morning with the head deacon knocking the pastor to the ground with a mighty right hook. Others joined in the fighting and soon both sides were swinging fists and throwing objects. The police we called to the service to break up the fighting, which they did and several people were arrested, the pastor being one of them.

You can imagine how the newspapers took to this story. And the neighbors.

In another story, a young girl gave her life in resistance to the tyranny of the State who was trying to control the Church in Romania. People of different faiths banded together, Protestants and Catholics, working together, to stop the abuses of the government against the Church of Christ. Many faithful were killed but in the end, the government lost and the Church thrived. This was in 1989 in Romania.

Some Christians fight against the enemies of the Church and others just fight with each other. Either way, the world is watching.

So yeah this thread is closed. Either for a cool down or more.