Futurism&TheTemple

[smaller]

Re: Lest ye become wise in your own conceits...

The church isn't the same as Israel. The church dispensation properly began at Pentecost.

The 'New Covenant' is made with Israel and specifically the house of Judah.

I'd suggest that unless you want TWO New Covenants, being of Israel and the house of Judah may be of some import.

Hebrews 8:8
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

There are no gentile names in 'Heaven'

Revelation 21:12
And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

 

[smaller]

Then by all means feel free to elaborate in detail on Revelation 11 and Revelation 13 where it does speak of the beast of the sea and the beast of the earth having dominion over the earth for that time..

Or the two witnesses and their testimony in Revelation 11 and how that all works for you in the present.. rather than within its biblical context of the things which shall be hereafter..

I asked yo to take the floor once before and explain all these things and I'll ask again.. if you're going to take these things from their context then you'll need to explain in detail exactly how YOU do that.

Don't you even know that it is upon YOU as a believer to bring MERCY to blinded Israel?

Romans 11:
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

Have we no respect for the power of HEAVENLY FRUIT?

Have we no 'calling' to BEAR, that others may EAT?

s

 

[Eventide]

There's that stumblingblock again...

ISRAEL remains blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in... they're presently cut off from the ROOT which is CHRIST... while the church of God is being built upon the confession of Jesus Christ, and which is IN CHRIST.

The amazing thing to come is that ISRAEL will be delivered in the time of the end.. and will then be IN CHRIST... for all things shall be gathered together in ONE, in Christ Jesus.. things which are in heaven.. and things which are on earth..

 

[smaller]

TASTE AND SEE

 

[Eventide]

taste what... that the church of God is somehow the earthly entity known as Israel..

Doesn't taste right to me.. something missing... some key ingredient..

 

[JLB]

Combine those two sentences and you will begin to see JLB:

God dwells in a Temple in Heaven, which is within the heart and mind of believers.


You still think Heaven is "out there" somewhere?






Luke 17:21 "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

That's why I stated, He also dwells in born again believers.

You think The Omnipresent God can be contained within and confined to a few human beings.


JLB

 

[farouk]

Re: Lest ye become wise in your own conceits...

The 'New Covenant' is made with Israel and specifically the house of Judah.

I'd suggest that unless you want TWO New Covenants, being of Israel and the house of Judah may be of some import.

Hebrews 8:8
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

There are no gentile names in 'Heaven'

Revelation 21:12
And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

smaller:

I don't know whether you are trying to deny that believers of Gentile origin will go to heaven.

But I would have thought that whoever goes there will be Jews inwardly (as Paul says to the Romans in chapter 2) by faith, rather than according to the flesh.

 

[smaller]

That's why I stated, He also dwells in born again believers.

You think The Omnipresent God can be contained within and confined to a few human beings.

JLB

1 John 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

hmmm? I wonder where HEAVEN might be in that equation?

God does dwell 'in heaven' does He not?

1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Trying to 'pin' these matters down to 'space' and 'time' does not work.

God is A SPIRIT.

In and by faith 'we' are a part or a 'share' in Him and His Produce.

s

 

[smaller]

Re: Lest ye become wise in your own conceits...

smaller:

I don't know whether you are trying to deny that believers of Gentile origin will go to heaven.

Not at all. I did point out that there is only ONE New Covenant and it is so with Israel and the house of Judah specifically.

Unless you want to 'make a case' for TWO NEW COVENANTS?

But I would have thought that whoever goes there will be Jews inwardly (as Paul says to the Romans in chapter 2) by faith, rather than according to the flesh.

Yes indeed. It is a 'spiritual' matter. Jesus is THE HOUSE OF JUDAH. That is THE MIND OF CHRIST, His Words, His Ways.

Jesus is also the HEAD of the house of JACOB.

Luke 1:33
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Hebrews 11:20
By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

Those 'things' do not 'end' as we can see with Jesus Reign over the house of Jacob.

These 'things' were also written for our examples.

s

 

[smaller]

taste what... that the church of God is somehow the earthly entity known as Israel..

Doesn't taste right to me.. something missing... some key ingredient..

One can show a believer fruit, but they must taste same themselves to appreciate the flavor.

When we TASTE AND SEE that the Lord is Good, do we take a BITE out of Him with our teeth? Probably not.

John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

If we pray then for things that REMAIN, what might we PRAY FOR? And Who will GIVE abundant produce that REMAINS?

Do you think FRUIT of the SPIRIT would be a fair answer? A WORTHY answer?

s

 

[smaller]

In the last chapter of Revelation, we are shown this matter:

Revelation 22:2
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Who needs 'healing' at this point?

Psalm 1:
1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.

2 Timothy 2:6
The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.

Matthew 6:20
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven,


Luke 12:
26 If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?


?

 

[Eventide]

One can show a believer fruit, but they must taste same themselves to appreciate the flavor.

When we TASTE AND SEE that the Lord is Good, do we take a BITE out of Him with our teeth? Probably not.

John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

If we pray then for things that REMAIN, what might we PRAY FOR? And Who will GIVE abundant produce that REMAINS?

Do you think FRUIT of the SPIRIT would be a fair answer? A WORTHY answer?

s

What this has to do with the church of God being Israel... I have no idea.

And what we must not be ignorant of is the simple fact that Israel is blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in... Just as Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled..

Literally... not in some stretch of the imagination... but literally... there shall be a fulness of the GENTILES coming in to the body of Christ.. and then He shall present His church to Himself without spot or wrinkle or any such thing..

There shall also come an end to the times of the GENTILES... and that shall be when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ.. in that Day, the Day of the Lord.. the Day of Jesus Christ.

 

[smaller]

What this has to do with the church of God being Israel... I have no idea.

You DO like thee New Covenant though don't you? Or is that TWO NEW covenants?

The NEW COVENANT is ONE Covenant. That being to Israel and the house of Judah.

And what we must not be ignorant of is the simple fact that Israel is blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in... Just as Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled..

Blinded flesh men have little to do with Israel.

Romans 9:
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Why any of you think these matters revolve around blinded flesh men called Israel only shows you are not reading or understanding.

Literally... not in some stretch of the imagination... but literally... there shall be a fulness of the GENTILES coming in to the body of Christ.. and then He shall present His church to Himself without spot or wrinkle or any such thing..

I'd suggest you see what Paul said about the matters in Romans 9 about Israel of the flesh.

There shall also come an end to the times of the GENTILES... and that shall be when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ.. in that Day, the Day of the Lord.. the Day of Jesus Christ.

Might be wise to consider one's active participation rather than place the matters as a 'some day' 'some way' fairytale.

s

 

[Eventide]

You DO like thee New Covenant though don't you? Or is that TWO NEW covenants?

It is NOT two covenants... it is one in CHRIST...

And Israel is presently not IN CHRIST... they're cut off from ROOT who is Christ..

The church of God on the other hand is the body of Christ.. His future wife to be..

This is why the distinction is so vital with respect to end time theology.. because that is heavily centered upon the DELIVERANCE of the nation of ISRAEL... in the time of the end..

 

[smaller]

It is NOT two covenants... it is one in CHRIST...

And Israel is presently not IN CHRIST... they're cut off from ROOT who is Christ..

Oh, you mean those blinded in your behalf and those whom you are to share MERCY with?

The church of God on the other hand is the body of Christ.. His future wife to be..

That BRIDE is to BEAR. The burden of bearing is upon each of us.

To stand looking over to some small spot of ground overseas filled with blinded flesh men will mean exactly nothing until they EAT what you have to share.

This is why the distinction is so vital with respect to end time theology.. because that is heavily centered upon the DELIVERANCE of the nation of ISRAEL... in the time of the end..

I'd suggest that most are clawing at a scenario that doesn't exist other than via fleshly imaginations.

James 5:7
Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

He is not waiting for blinded flesh men to build a brick and mortar temple to be inhabited by some wicked man so He can ride through the sky on His pretty white horse to go get that bad guy.

s

 

[Eventide]

Ye did it for evil... but God did it for good...

And as mentioned.. if you'd like to remove the biblical context of the things which shall be hereafter, then simply explain and elaborate on them.. and if you're going to ignore the mystery concerning Israel and their blindness in part until the fulness of the Gentiles come in... then that's going to continue to be a stumblingblock to understanding the deliverance of Israel in the time of the end..

It's a biblical certainty that the Lord is going to reveal Himself to Israel in that Day... the Day of the Lord.

IMO many simply refuse to believe that. And I can't imagine why... although then again.. that's probably the last thing that the god of this world would actually want people to believe.. imo.

 

[Eventide]

And He shall be King over all the EARTH in that DAY...

The Lord Jesus Christ King over all the earth in that Day..?

Many refuse to believe it.. and yet it's a biblical certainty.. when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our GOD and of HIS CHRIST.

 

[jasoncran]

Well you are doing better, at least.

Last time we had this conversation you said it was the Romans who had pierced Him, and Zechariah and Revelation was reffering to the Roman soldiers.

So, at least you admit it was the Jews that crucified Him.

that came to past. how many jews in america attend the temple? how may are athiests.

heres a famous jew that christians hate

meet karl marx

Early life: 1818–1835

Marx's birthplace in Trier, Rhineland-Palatinate, which is now a museum devoted to him.


Karl Heinrich Marx was born on 5 May 1818 at 664 Brückergasse in Trier, a town located in the Kingdom of Prussia's Province of the Lower Rhine.[14] His ancestry was Ashkenazi Jewish, with his paternal line having supplied the rabbis of Trier since 1723, a role that had been taken up by his own grandfather, Meier Halevi Marx; Meier's son and Karl's father would be the first in the line to receive a secular education.[15] His maternal grandfather was a Dutch rabbi.[16] Karl's father, Herschel Marx, was middle-class and relatively wealthy: the family owned a number of Moselle vineyards; he converted from Judaism to the Protestant Christian denomination of Lutheranism prior to his son's birth, taking on the German forename of Heinrich over Herschel.[5] In 1815 he began working as an attorney and in 1819 moved his family from a five-room rented apartment into a ten-room property near the Porta Nigra.[17] A man of the Enlightenment, Heinrich Marx was interested in the ideas of the philosophers Immanuel Kant and Voltaire, and took part in agitation for a constitution and reforms in Prussia, which was then governed by an absolute monarchy.[18] Karl's mother, born Henrietta Pressburg (20 July 1788 – 30 November 1863), was a Dutch Jew who, unlike her husband, was only semi-literate. She claimed to suffer from "excessive mother love", devoting much time to her family, and insisting on cleanliness within her home.[19] She was from a prosperous business family that later founded the company Philips Electronics: she was great-aunt to Anton and Gerard Philips, and great-great-aunt to Frits Philips. Her brother, Marx's uncle Benjamin Philips (1830-1900), was a wealthy banker and industrialist, upon whom Karl and Jenny Marx would later often come to rely for loans while they were exiled in London.[20]

meet karl marx a famous athiest jew. he is also one of many jews that never were raised in the temple.

uhm. the romans did crucify. pilate has jesus's blood on him. the authority to do that was given to rome.sorry. the roman soldier did fulfill prophecy as well. where is the house of gad, nathan and david these days? considering that all records of lineages are gone. and most jews dont know their tribe?


what part of i am a jew dont you get. i didnt need the temple to see that jesus came and died. not all jews
even bother with the torah.

reformed jews dont. nor do constructionist. that nation of isreal doesnt even follow the torah. for if they did they would be killing gays and christians.

 

[JLB]

i didnt need the temple to see that jesus came and died. not all jews even bother with the torah.

So, whats your point?

 

[Pastor Dave]

There can be no doubt that there is going to be a Temple in which the man of sin SITS and proclaims to be God.. He is going to be WORSHIPED.. and He is going to have DOMINION over the entire earth for 42 months..

Revelation 11 affirms that there is going to be a Temple.. and its correct BIBLICAL CONTEXT is the things which shall be hereafter... and if ANYONE would like to refute this... THEN PLEASE explain the two witnesses and their testimony.. their death and their resurrection after three days..

Please EXPLAIN IN DETAIL WHEN THAT took place in the past.. or how it's happening now in the present.

Futurists are always making assumptions and framing questions as if the answers must be according to their claims.

First of all, what you stated is an interpretation. And making a claim that there is "no doubt" is not proof that your interpretation is correct.

Secondly, no one has to answer your question by stating when and how the events happened, according to your "how". Why do you ask "when and how", if you're going to require us to follow your "how"?

What you're really doing, is demanding that someone else prove that the events as you interpret them to happen, have already happened

No one is required to accept your interpretation before responding!

What you're doing is to demand that we do the following;

"Prove that my interpretation is incorrect by first assuming that it is correct aand then proceeding from there to prove it wrong!"

EDITED

Furthermore, no one has to prove anything to you. You certainly aren't willing to prove anything to anyone else regarding your interpretation. You think that you just get to tell us what it means and change the fact that it's your interpretation to "The Bible says so!" and that somehow means you've proven your case.

The fact is, nowhere does the Bible say; "another rebuilt temple". The temple that Jesus spoke of was standing right there! And He spoke of it being destroyed and it was destroyed exactly how He said it would be. Now why don't you show us where He said; "But skip it the first time it happens guys, okay?".

Jesus said the temple would be destroyed. He said it would happen within that same generation. The Apostles wrote about a bunch of things happening and wrote all of it while that temple was still standing and never once mentioned "in the next temple, not this one". But in your mind, the Bible says the opposite and I should accept your claim that those things haven't happened yet, because of "how" you *claim* it is supposed to happen and Jesus and the Apostles were wrong and we should just skip right over 70 AD, which btw, if you're an honest person, you'll admit that you didn't even know about. So we'll also just ignore Hebrews 8:13, which tells us that "the end" was about the physical destruction of the Mosaic economy and go with you, because you refuse to accept that the Greek word behind the word "earth" does not mean "planet". Yea, sure, you proved your case beyond any doubt! EDITED inflammatory