Futurism&TheTemple

[JLB]

i didnt say that the judgement of all man has past nor the bodily ressurection. but hey i take the book of revalation literally when it says

in revalation 1:7



so how can in modern times those that pierced him see him? when they are dead? spirits dont have eyes.

spirits dont have eyes

So God created spirit beings without eyes?

That crazy!!!!

Every eye will see Him, even those that pierced Him is a reference to the Jews.



10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
11 In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo.
12 And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves;
13 the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of Shimei by itself, and their wives by themselves;
14 all the families that remain, every family by itself, and their wives by themselves.

"they" refers to the Jews!

ALL JEWS!


JLB

 

[JLB]

Re: Measure the TEMPLE...

All a person would need to do to refute the silly futurist notion of a coming future TEMPLE.. is to explain in detail Revelation 11 and its biblical context concerning A TEMPLE..

And then.... maybe then.... just maybe... they might have a leg to stand on...

It's infinitely easier to rest in the truth of scripture than it is to completely ignore it and believe something which has absolutely NO biblical basis whatsoever.. and yet we probably won't hear anyone speak of Revelation 11 in its biblical context concerning the TEMPLE..

Perhaps just about anything BUT that..

They would still have to explain away Daniel 9:27 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

Can't happen. Though many have tried.


JLB

 

[jasoncran]

So God created spirit beings without eyes?

That crazy!!!!

Every eye will see Him, even those that pierced Him is a reference to the Jews.



10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
11 In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo.
12 And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves;
13 the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of Shimei by itself, and their wives by themselves;
14 all the families that remain, every family by itself, and their wives by themselves.

"they" refers to the Jews!

ALL JEWS!


JLB

o
oh you mean these jews?

acts 2

Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls

those jews repented. now then its quite ANTI-SEMETIC TO SAY THAT modern jews killed a man that was born and died before any of us jews were alive.sorry the modern jew is guilty of not believing the lord but not in the sin of murdering Jesus.


and a spirit doesnt have eyes. they are invisible and not corporal. sheesh. eyes and so forth are anthromorphic. that is what i have said about alot of things with you. i have seen angels and demons. never with my eyes but with my spritual "eyes" not unless they take on a body. that is rare.

 

[Eventide]

Re: Measure the TEMPLE...

They would still have to explain away Daniel 9:27 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

Can't happen. Though many have tried.


JLB

The question in my mind at times is why wouldn't a believer simply rest in what the scriptures do say.. and I'll be the first to admit that there is infinitely more to the scriptures than I can see.. although the basic fundamental truths are glaringly obvious imo..

Then again.. people keep trying.. to make it say what it doesn't.. as if their own voice is more important than what He says..

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by Eventide,

There can be no doubt that there is going to be a Temple in which the man of sin SITS and proclaims to be God.. He is going to be WORSHIPED.. and He is going to have DOMINION over the entire earth for 42 months..

Please EXPLAIN IN DETAIL WHEN THAT took place in the past.. or how it's happening now in the present.

I'll answer the question IN DETAIL (Scripturally), even though I know you'll yell at me again. :headphones

First of all, Jesus Christ informs us 11 times in the book of Revelation that He "IS, WAS, And IS TO COME" (Revelation 1:8). This includes the past and the present, not just the future.

Paul tells us:


2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


If this "man of sin" sits in the "Temple of God," then we have to know "where" that Temple of God is.

We do not have to guess because Paul tells us in the most straightforward way possible, and Paul's definition of the Temple of God does NOT change from epistle to epistle:

1 Corinthians 3:16 "Do you not know that YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD and that the Spirit of God dwells IN YOU?
1 Corinthians 3:17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is HOLY, which TEMPLE YOU ARE."

1 Corinthians 6:19 "Or do you not know that YOUR BODY IS THE TEMPLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT who is in you?"

2 Corinthians 6:16: "For YOU ARE THE TEMPLE of the living God; as God has said, I WILL DWELL IN THEM, and walk in them"

1 Corinthians 3:9 "For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, YOU ARE GOD'S BUILDING."


Peter reaffirms what, where, and who the Temple is:

1 Peter 2:4 "You are coming to Christ, who is the LIVING CORNERSTONE of God's temple. He was rejected by people, but he was chosen by God for great honor.
1 Peter 2:5 And YOU ARE LIVING STONES that God is building into his SPIRITUAL TEMPLE."


Paul and Peter have just told us over and over where the Temple of God is. YOU and ME are the Temple of God (unless Paul and Peter were lying).

We are told that the "Man of Sin" sits in the "Temple of God", claiming to be God.

If YOU and ME are the Temple of God, and the "man of sin" sits in the Temple of God, then WHERE IS THE MAN OF SIN SITTING? A five year old (who isn't indoctrinated by tradition) can answer this simple 2 + 2 question in less than 10 seconds!

So WHO is the man of sin? YOU and ME are the man of sin. Our CARNAL SELF (flesh man, old Adam) and our CARNAL MIND oppose God:

Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

Did you catch that? Pay attention. "The CARNAL MIND IS ENMITY AGAINST GOD!" The CARNAL MIND OPPOSES AND EXALTS HIMSELF AGAINST GOD! Do you get it? The carnal mind is the FLESH MAN - THE MAN OF SIN!

Every man opposes God and exalts himself above God at various periods in his life. You are doing it right now, by putting YOUR OWN IDEAS AND BELIEFS ABOVE THE WORD OF GOD, which clearly tells us that WE ARE THE TEMPLE! By doing this, you are "that MAN OF SIN, who sits in the Temple of God opposing and exalting yourself [your own beliefs] above all that is called God" (i.e. - putting your beliefs in place of all that is called God - THE WORD OF GOD!)


This happens to EVERY HUMAN in EVERY GENERATION since Christ (including myself), and will continue to happen into the future until the resurrection! (i.e. - happened in the past, happening right now in the PRESENT, and will continue to happen into the future - that is - until the resurrection)


As far as Revelation 11:

• Revelation 11:1 "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein."

• Revelation 11:2 "But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."

• Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth."

John, (who is personifying all those to whom it is given to keep the sayings of the prophecy of this book), is given "a reed like unto a rod" and is instructed to "measure the temple of God and the altar and them that worship therein."

I have gone over the TEMPLE already and will only remind these two verses to remind you what 'the Temple of God' is:

1 Corinthians 3:16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth IN YOU?
1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."


The Altar is at the temple AND in the temple.


The Altar is where we lay down our lives in sacrifice to God. The Israelites were to "lay their hands on the head" of the sacrifice to indicate that they identified with the offering of that sacrifice.


Leviticus 4:15 "And the elders of the congregation shall lay their hands upon the head of the bullock before the LORD: and the bullock shall be killed before the LORD."


We are also instructed to do this in the New Testament:


Romans 12:1 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."


So the spiritual significance of this symbol is the Cross (the ALTAR), where we lay our lives down as we present OUR BODIES (i.e.- THE TEMPLE) as "a living sacrifice,


Our "worship" (in the Temple - which YE ARE), is our obedience:


1 Samuel 15:22 "And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king."


John 4:21 "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem [at THE TEMPLE], worship the Father.
John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:24 God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."


The Gentiles have already been explained thoroughly in this thread:


Romans 2:28 "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;
Romans 2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."


Galatians 3:29 "And if you be in Christ, then YOU ARE Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Revelation 2:26 "And he that overcomes, and keeps my works until the end, to him will I give power over the nations."


Galatians 6:16 "All who walk by this standard are the true Israel of God--his chosen people. Peace and mercy on them."


Those who are truly in Christ, and walk by Christ's rules are the true Jews, and those who say 'Lord, Lord', but do not do the things He says are the true Gentiles.

1 Corinthians 10:20 "But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they SACRIFICE TO DEVILS, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils."


All false doctrines are "the sacrifice of the Gentiles...to devils."


It is true that "he is not a Jew which is one outwardly", and it is also true that Jerusalem is not Jerusalem which is outward, but the Holy City also "is inward, in spirit, and not in the flesh."

Whatever is under one's feet has been subdued by that person. What is the Holy City which is "trodden under the foot of the Gentiles for forty and two months?"



See Eventide, you and the whole world of orthodoxy waits for physical Jerusalem to be conquered by the Gentiles, but the truth of God's Word is that "the time was at hand [2,000 years ago for] the Holy City" to be "trodden under the foot of the Gentiles", and it has always been being trodden under the feet of the Gentiles inwardly, just as surely as "he is a Jew which is one inwardly."


Revelation 1:3 "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is [always] at hand."


What is "the Holy City" which is at this very moment being trodden under the feet of the Gentiles? It is all those who are true to Christ. The Holy City is those who are faithful to Christ and His doctrines. The Holy City is the bride of Christ.


Here are those who are today being trodden under the foot of the Gentiles.

2 Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."


Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."


Christ's "bride" is the same as God's "dwelling place", and that dwelling place is WITHIN US.

(Read the above sentence AGAIN!)


1 Corinthians 3:16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth IN YOU?"


The "New Jerusalem" is "the tabernacle of God." So if you and I are overcomers IN CHRIST, then the tabernacle (temple) of God, the New Jerusalem, is within those who are overcomers IN CHRIST, as indeed the whole of "the kingdom of God is within you".

Luke 17:20 "And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."


It is those who are true to the name and WORDS of Christ, those who are "hated of all men" (Matthew 10:22), including hated by all men within the orthodox churches, who are "trodden under the feet of the Gentiles forty and two months."


My point in writing all of this (besides your request to be DETAILED) is to show you the spiritual significance of all these things. You are only seeing things "after the flesh" thus, your TRUE EYES can't see beyond "THE VEIL" of the flesh. We are the Temple of God, and the Holy Spirit dwells within the Temple (us).

God belongs on the Throne (as King of the Castle). However, when MAN decides to be "King of his own Castle", and puts his own ideas, traditions, church doctrines, religious rituals, ceremonies, festivals, theories, charities, potluck dinners, WORKS OF THE SELF, ABOVE CHRIST'S WORDS (for the ARE SPIRIT, they ARE LIFE) he sits on that Throne that belongs to God, he becomes "that Man of Sin that sits in the Temple of God, exalting HIMSELF and claiming to be God."

This has been going on since the Apostles were STILL ALIVE, and it continues to this day, and WILL continue into the future, until the resurrection.

If you wish to discuss the two witnesses, then address all of the Scriptures I have provided here (in a mature, Scriptural manner), and I will be glad to.

 

[JLB]

o
oh you mean these jews?

acts 2


those jews repented. now then its quite ANTI-SEMETIC TO SAY THAT modern jews killed a man that was born and died before any of us jews were alive.sorry the modern jew is guilty of not believing the lord but not in the sin of murdering Jesus.


and a spirit doesnt have eyes. they are invisible and not corporal. sheesh. eyes and so forth are anthromorphic. that is what i have said about alot of things with you. i have seen angels and demons. never with my eyes but with my spritual "eyes" not unless they take on a body. that is rare.

Well you are doing better, at least.

Last time we had this conversation you said it was the Romans who had pierced Him, and Zechariah and Revelation was reffering to the Roman soldiers.

So, at least you admit it was the Jews that crucified Him.


"Even those that pierced Him" is a reference to the Jews, as the rest of Zechariah 14 clearly reveals.


When every eye will see Him, it certain does include the Jews.

They will no longer reject Him as Messiah!


JLB

 

[JLB]

I'll answer the question IN DETAIL (Scripturally), even though I know you'll yell at me again. :headphones

First of all, Jesus Christ informs us 11 times in the book of Revelation that He "IS, WAS, And IS TO COME" (Revelation 1:8). This includes the past and the present, not just the future.

Paul tells us:


2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


If this "man of sin" sits in the "Temple of God," then we have to know "where" that Temple of God is.

We do not have to guess because Paul tells us in the most straightforward way possible, and Paul's definition of the Temple of God does NOT change from epistle to epistle:

1 Corinthians 3:16 "Do you not know that YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD and that the Spirit of God dwells IN YOU?
1 Corinthians 3:17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is HOLY, which TEMPLE YOU ARE."

1 Corinthians 6:19 "Or do you not know that YOUR BODY IS THE TEMPLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT who is in you?"

2 Corinthians 6:16: "For YOU ARE THE TEMPLE of the living God; as God has said, I WILL DWELL IN THEM, and walk in them"

1 Corinthians 3:9 "For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, YOU ARE GOD'S BUILDING."


Peter reaffirms what, where, and who the Temple is:

1 Peter 2:4 "You are coming to Christ, who is the LIVING CORNERSTONE of God's temple. He was rejected by people, but he was chosen by God for great honor.
1 Peter 2:5 And YOU ARE LIVING STONES that God is building into his SPIRITUAL TEMPLE."


Paul and Peter have just told us over and over where the Temple of God is. YOU and ME are the Temple of God (unless Paul and Peter were lying).

We are told that the "Man of Sin" sits in the "Temple of God", claiming to be God.

If YOU and ME are the Temple of God, and the "man of sin" sits in the Temple of God, then WHERE IS THE MAN OF SIN SITTING? A five year old (who isn't indoctrinated by tradition) can answer this simple 2 + 2 question in less than 10 seconds!

So WHO is the man of sin? YOU and ME are the man of sin. Our CARNAL SELF (flesh man, old Adam) and our CARNAL MIND oppose God:

Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

Did you catch that? Pay attention. "The CARNAL MIND IS ENMITY AGAINST GOD!" The CARNAL MIND OPPOSES AND EXALTS HIMSELF AGAINST GOD! Do you get it? The carnal mind is the FLESH MAN - THE MAN OF SIN!

Every man opposes God and exalts himself above God at various periods in his life. You are doing it right now, by putting YOUR OWN IDEAS AND BELIEFS ABOVE THE WORD OF GOD, which clearly tells us that WE ARE THE TEMPLE! By doing this, you are "that MAN OF SIN, who sits in the Temple of God opposing and exalting yourself [your own beliefs] above all that is called God" (i.e. - putting your beliefs in place of all that is called God - THE WORD OF GOD!)


This happens to EVERY HUMAN in EVERY GENERATION since Christ (including myself), and will continue to happen into the future until the resurrection! (i.e. - happened in the past, happening right now in the PRESENT, and will continue to happen into the future - that is - until the resurrection)


As far as Revelation 11:

• Revelation 11:1 "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein."

• Revelation 11:2 "But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."

• Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth."

John, (who is personifying all those to whom it is given to keep the sayings of the prophecy of this book), is given "a reed like unto a rod" and is instructed to "measure the temple of God and the altar and them that worship therein."

I have gone over the TEMPLE already and will only remind these two verses to remind you what 'the Temple of God' is:

1 Corinthians 3:16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth IN YOU?
1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."


The Altar is at the temple AND in the temple.


The Altar is where we lay down our lives in sacrifice to God. The Israelites were to "lay their hands on the head" of the sacrifice to indicate that they identified with the offering of that sacrifice.


Leviticus 4:15 "And the elders of the congregation shall lay their hands upon the head of the bullock before the LORD: and the bullock shall be killed before the LORD."


We are also instructed to do this in the New Testament:


Romans 12:1 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."


So the spiritual significance of this symbol is the Cross (the ALTAR), where we lay our lives down as we present OUR BODIES (i.e.- THE TEMPLE) as "a living sacrifice,


Our "worship" (in the Temple - which YE ARE), is our obedience:


1 Samuel 15:22 "And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king."


John 4:21 "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem [at THE TEMPLE], worship the Father.
John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:24 God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."


The Gentiles have already been explained thoroughly in this thread:


Romans 2:28 "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;
Romans 2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."


Galatians 3:29 "And if you be in Christ, then YOU ARE Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Revelation 2:26 "And he that overcomes, and keeps my works until the end, to him will I give power over the nations."


Galatians 6:16 "All who walk by this standard are the true Israel of God--his chosen people. Peace and mercy on them."


Those who are truly in Christ, and walk by Christ's rules are the true Jews, and those who say 'Lord, Lord', but do not do the things He says are the true Gentiles.

1 Corinthians 10:20 "But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they SACRIFICE TO DEVILS, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils."


All false doctrines are "the sacrifice of the Gentiles...to devils."


It is true that "he is not a Jew which is one outwardly", and it is also true that Jerusalem is not Jerusalem which is outward, but the Holy City also "is inward, in spirit, and not in the flesh."

Whatever is under one's feet has been subdued by that person. What is the Holy City which is "trodden under the foot of the Gentiles for forty and two months?"



See Eventide, you and the whole world of orthodoxy waits for physical Jerusalem to be conquered by the Gentiles, but the truth of God's Word is that "the time was at hand [2,000 years ago for] the Holy City" to be "trodden under the foot of the Gentiles", and it has always been being trodden under the feet of the Gentiles inwardly, just as surely as "he is a Jew which is one inwardly."


Revelation 1:3 "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is [always] at hand."


What is "the Holy City" which is at this very moment being trodden under the feet of the Gentiles? It is all those who are true to Christ. The Holy City is those who are faithful to Christ and His doctrines. The Holy City is the bride of Christ.


Here are those who are today being trodden under the foot of the Gentiles.

2 Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."


Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."


Christ's "bride" is the same as God's "dwelling place", and that dwelling place is WITHIN US.

(Read the above sentence AGAIN!)


1 Corinthians 3:16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth IN YOU?"


The "New Jerusalem" is "the tabernacle of God." So if you and I are overcomers IN CHRIST, then the tabernacle (temple) of God, the New Jerusalem, is within those who are overcomers IN CHRIST, as indeed the whole of "the kingdom of God is within you".

Luke 17:20 "And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."


It is those who are true to the name and WORDS of Christ, those who are "hated of all men" (Matthew 10:22), including hated by all men within the orthodox churches, who are "trodden under the feet of the Gentiles forty and two months."


My point in writing all of this (besides your request to be DETAILED) is to show you the spiritual significance of all these things. You are only seeing things "after the flesh" thus, your TRUE EYES can't see beyond "THE VEIL" of the flesh. We are the Temple of God, and the Holy Spirit dwells within the Temple (us).

God belongs on the Throne (as King of the Castle). However, when MAN decides to be "King of his own Castle", and puts his own ideas, traditions, church doctrines, religious rituals, ceremonies, festivals, theories, charities, potluck dinners, WORKS OF THE SELF, ABOVE CHRIST'S WORDS (for the ARE SPIRIT, they ARE LIFE) he sits on that Throne that belongs to God, he becomes "that Man of Sin that sits in the Temple of God, exalting HIMSELF and claiming to be God."

This has been going on since the Apostles were STILL ALIVE, and it continues to this day, and WILL continue into the future, until the resurrection.

If you wish to discuss the two witnesses, then address all of the Scriptures I have provided here (in a mature, Scriptural manner), and I will be glad to.

God dwells in a Temple in heaven.

God ALSO, dwells in born again believers.

JLB

 

[Eventide]

This has been going on since the Apostles were STILL ALIVE, and it continues to this day, and WILL continue into the future, until the resurrection.

If you wish to discuss the two witnesses, then address all of the Scriptures I have provided here (in a mature, Scriptural manner), and I will be glad to.

Os,

I do appreciate the detail in your posts although I'm kinda like a summary guy.. and this is imo where you're going out of context..

You're taking the context of Rev 11 and you're applying it to the present time.. ie, the things which are.. and you're applying all of this to the church of God, the bride of Christ... which is not even hinted at within the context of Rev 11..

Other than that.. I would like to hear how you apply the two witnesses to the things which are... rather than in their biblical context pertaining to the things which shall be hereafter.

 

[Eventide]

Once again... imo.. and please simply CONSIDER this possibility..

ISRAEL is still looking for their Messiah...

That has NOTHING to do with the church of God..

 

[Eventide]

What is the LORD doing right now...

Building His church... while Israel remains cut off from the ROOT which is Christ..

Is God ABLE to graft them in to the root again.. ?

Of course.. without a doubt He shall turn ungodliness from JACOB.. the one who wrestled with the man til the breaking of the Day..

Can we see that Day approaching..

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by JLB,


God dwells in a Temple in heaven.

God ALSO, dwells in born again believers.

JLB

Combine those two sentences and you will begin to see JLB:

God dwells in a Temple in Heaven, which is within the heart and mind of believers.


You still think Heaven is "out there" somewhere?


Luke 17:21 "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

 

[Eventide]

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself

The Lord Jesus Christ is most certainly ascended INTO HEAVEN and He is NOW seated at the right hand of His Father..

He rose from the dead with FLESH and BONE... and physically appeared and ate with His Apostles..

He ascended into Heaven.. that's not some cunningly devised fable.. it's the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[smaller]

Combine those two sentences and you will begin to see JLB:

God dwells in a Temple in Heaven, which is within the heart and mind of believers.

You still think Heaven is "out there" somewhere?

Luke 17:21 "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

It is always pleasant to read sound spiritual reasoning Os. Thanks!

s

 

[Eventide]

And imo it could not be more clear that the church of God is already within the Kingdom of God... because the kingdom is simply the king's domain.. and right now of course the church of God is IN CHRIST.. seated with Him in heavenly places in Christ.. and of course our citizenship is in heaven.. not on earth..

That however is not the case with this present evil WORLD.. for it is under the sway of the wicked one.. and the prince of the power of the air will ultimately be cast down to the EARTH and have dominion over it through the beast and false prophet.. by whom they receive their power.. for 42 months... or three and a half years..

These are simple biblical truths within the simple biblical context of things which shall be hereafter.. and it's futile imo to take them away from their simple biblical context and misapply them to the things which are..

 

[Eventide]

Lest ye become wise in your own conceits...

And the number one reason imo why this cannot be seen in its simplicity is because of ignoring the mystery pertaining to Israel.. and therefore becoming wise in our own conceits.

Once the simple biblical distinction is made between the earthly entity of Israel and the heavenly entity, the church.. end time revelation becomes as plain as Day..

 

[farouk]

Re: Lest ye become wise in your own conceits...

And the number one reason imo why this cannot be seen in its simplicity is because of ignoring the mystery pertaining to Israel.. and therefore becoming wise in our own conceits.

Once the simple biblical distinction is made between the earthly entity of Israel and the heavenly entity, the church.. end time revelation becomes as plain as Day..

The church isn't the same as Israel. The church dispensation properly began at Pentecost.

 

[Eventide]

Re: Lest ye become wise in your own conceits...

The church isn't the same as Israel. The church dispensation properly began at Pentecost.

A very HEARTY AMEN to that !

This imo is a severe stumblingblock today... not understanding the distinction between the Israel of God.. an earthly entity with many earthly ordinances, and the church of God which is heavenly.. with our citizenship being in heaven.

 

[farouk]

Re: Lest ye become wise in your own conceits...

A very HEARTY AMEN to that !

This imo is a severe stumblingblock today... not understanding the distinction between the Israel of God.. an earthly entity with many earthly ordinances, and the church of God which is heavenly.. with our citizenship being in heaven.

Like, "vote for candidate so-and-so, because his buddies sold more bombs to Tel Aviv than the other candidates did."

Whereas this has nothing to do directly with the Gospel witness of the church to both Jew and Gentile.

 

[smaller]

And imo it could not be more clear that the church of God is already within the Kingdom of God... because the kingdom is simply the king's domain.. and right now of course the church of God is IN CHRIST.. seated with Him in heavenly places in Christ.. and of course our citizenship is in heaven.. not on earth..

Things that are 'above,' of 'heaven' are here, with us, within us.

This is the PRODUCE of HEAVEN:

Galatians 5:
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance:

and this:

Ephesians 5:9
(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth; )

This is the fate of the 'world' under Gods Reign:

Isaiah 27:6
He shall cause them that come of Jacob to take root: Israel shall blossom and bud, and fill the face of the world with fruit.

He Is The Vine. We are the branches. God takes A HARVEST.

That however is not the case with this present evil WORLD.. for it is under the sway of the wicked one.. and the prince of the power of the air will ultimately be cast down to the EARTH and have dominion over it through the beast and false prophet.. by whom they receive their power.. for 42 months... or three and a half years..

Do you understand Gods view of time/times/half a time?

Here's a hint. It's not on a worldly clock or a calendar.

These are simple biblical truths within the simple biblical context of things which shall be hereafter.. and it's futile imo to take them away from their simple biblical context and misapply them to the things which are..

Luke 17:20
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

s

 

[Eventide]

Then by all means feel free to elaborate in detail on Revelation 11 and Revelation 13 where it does speak of the beast of the sea and the beast of the earth having dominion over the earth for that time..

Or the two witnesses and their testimony in Revelation 11 and how that all works for you in the present.. rather than within its biblical context of the things which shall be hereafter..

I asked yo to take the floor once before and explain all these things and I'll ask again.. if you're going to take these things from their context then you'll need to explain in detail exactly how YOU do that.