Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 time gap?

[kickedoutofchurch]

This is something that is very intriguing to my scientific mind and amazingly enough there is a lot of scripture to support a time gap of unknown years (possibly millions or even BILLIONS) between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. It would explain scientific fossil age testing and the dinosaurs as well as "pre-adam" forms of man like homo-erectus, etc.

I wrote about it in a post at this link.

http://wp.me/p4zT1X-fL

Thoughts?

Kicked

 

[reba]

Friendly reminder this topic has a way of kicking up the dust...

Bible Study
A forum for Bible study discussions.
This is not a debate forum.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

This is something that is very intriguing to my scientific mind and amazingly enough there is a lot of scripture to support a time gap of unknown years (possibly millions or even BILLIONS) between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. It would explain scientific fossil age testing and the dinosaurs as well as "pre-adam" forms of man like homo-erectus, etc.

I wrote about it in a post at this link.

http://wp.me/p4zT1X-fL

Thoughts?

Kicked

yes, it didn't happen. the time gap theory is not just a theory, it's messed up a lot of people i think. it very much appears to be not just adding to scripture, as if anything in the theory holds water(it doesn't), but also taking away from the confidence and faith in scripture. (what is written is true. conjecture no matter what the sourse, if and when it adds to or detracts from scripture and/or faith, is wrong.

yes, you'll find lifetimes of publications all about all aspects of the theory. it still doesn't get anywhere.

i think it's obviously best just to ignore it like a flock of mosquitoes.

 

[agua.]

This is something that is very intriguing to my scientific mind and amazingly enough there is a lot of scripture to support a time gap of unknown years (possibly millions or even BILLIONS) between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. It would explain scientific fossil age testing and the dinosaurs as well as "pre-adam" forms of man like homo-erectus, etc.

I wrote about it in a post at this link.

http://wp.me/p4zT1X-fL

Thoughts?

Kicked

It does seem to suggest some kind of break between "the beginning" and the Creation of the Earth for man's habitation. imo

 

[ironmonk]

This is something that is very intriguing to my scientific mind and amazingly enough there is a lot of scripture to support a time gap of unknown years (possibly millions or even BILLIONS) between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. It would explain scientific fossil age testing and the dinosaurs as well as "pre-adam" forms of man like homo-erectus, etc.

I wrote about it in a post at this link.

http://wp.me/p4zT1X-fL

Thoughts?

Kicked

Thoughts. Well using a ancient and unscientific book like the bible, then taking the current scientific data and trying to get them to complement each other is going to create logical fallacies.

 

[BigSodaExposer]

This is something that is very intriguing to my scientific mind and amazingly enough there is a lot of scripture to support a time gap of unknown years (possibly millions or even BILLIONS) between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. It would explain scientific fossil age testing and the dinosaurs as well as "pre-adam" forms of man like homo-erectus, etc.

I wrote about it in a post at this link.

http://wp.me/p4zT1X-fL

Thoughts?

Kicked

Faith in science VS Faith in God

Living dinosaurs = can't be experienced with my 5 senses

God = can't be experienced with my 5 senses

The old 50/50 question. Do I take the words of scientist and lose nothing at death? Or do I take the word of a 5000 year old book and lose it all at death?

 

[Ryan]

If God created everything in Genesis 1:1, why in the subsequent verses is the earth formless, void and darkness over the deep? Isn't all that God created perfect in it's own right? Why would there be darkness after God created everything in Genesis 1:1? Is God not light? IMO I believe the time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 is satan's fall and as a result, his creation had to be restored. I don't believe it took billions of years, but falls into a 6000 year period.

 

[Michael74]

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1 NIV

Verse 1 refers to the creation the heavens, as well as the earth Dates are not given for the creation of the heavens, so we really don't know the time frame of verse 1. It only says in the beginning. Job 38:4-7 NIV suggests that the heavens may have been created before the earth, as the angels were there shouting for joy when the earth was created.

Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.

Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?

On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—

while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels[a] shouted for joy?.

 

[Chopper]

yes, it didn't happen. the time gap theory is not just a theory, it's messed up a lot of people i think. it very much appears to be not just adding to scripture, as if anything in the theory holds water(it doesn't), but also taking away from the confidence and faith in scripture. (what is written is true. conjecture no matter what the sourse, if and when it adds to or detracts from scripture and/or faith, is wrong.

yes, you'll find lifetimes of publications all about all aspects of the theory. it still doesn't get anywhere.

i think it's obviously best just to ignore it like a flock of mosquitoes.

I agree with you Jeff, my words exactly. If God wanted us to know about a gap theory, He would have had Scripture to let us know. Since He didn't, it ain't so!

 

[agua.]

I agree with you Jeff, my words exactly. If God wanted us to know about a gap theory, He would have had Scripture to let us know. Since He didn't, it ain't so!

I think the Genesis Creation account was to show the Hebrews ( and everyone else ) that there is one God who is responsible for everything Created and not to teach them the intricate details of how He did it. The " And God said " caveats show this imo.

 

[Free]

Something I posted in another thread:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.
Gen 1:6 And God said...
Gen 1:8 And God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.
Gen 1:9 And God said...
Gen 1:11 And God said...
Gen 1:13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.
Gen 1:14 And God said...
Gen 1:19 And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.
Gen 1:20 And God said...
Gen 1:23 And there was evening and there was morning, the fifth day.
Gen 1:24 And God said...
Gen 1:26 Then God said...
Gen 1:29 And God said...
Gen 1:31 And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day. (ESV)

Notice that each day begins with "And God said," and ends with "the [nth] day." However, verses one and two are the creation of "the heavens and the earth." This strongly suggests that this is not a creation day. Day one begins in verse three, after "the earth was without form and void...and the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters." So it is quite possible that the age of the earth is very old since it is not included in the days of creation.

But I don't buy any of the other Scriptures that are used to support Gap theory and I certainly do not believe there was some pre-Adamic race. My position is simply that the Earth and the universe could actually be really old.

 

[kickedoutofchurch]

Wouldn't it be amazing to fully reconcile science with the Bible? To be able to show all the scientists that the Bible fully supports their findings? To me, this would be very good to bring the two groups together and reduce one of the barriers the scientific mind has against God and the Bible. I see them as one and the same. God is all truth and science is based on truth and tangible, physical proof or evidence. Science will never prove God because faith is only what pleases God and faith is not tangible in this realm (yet). But, this is one step closer.

Thus, I am attempting to create unity between the "scientific" mind that will not consider the Bible to be true because of the discrepancies, and the Biblical teacher who can not give solid answers to all the mountains of scientific, hard evidence. I am just seeking the truth at all costs as I know there is great reward in seeking the truth even when or especially when it goes "against the grain". "The grain" is often what keeps us from seeing the truth. I have personally studied this idea immensely and a lot of scriptures support the "time gap" idea with none outright refuting it that I have found. I shared here. To me, this gives me great peace because then science and God in my mind and heart fully reconcile just like my heart has been telling me all along but I couldn't "prove" it. I want the scientific man who rejects the Bible to know "God has you covered" and there's much more to this than we first realized, so we can all come together in unity. He will see that the God he has been radically opposed to actually did create and make everything he studies and it all fits together perfectly.

If we notice, God doesn't give us any dates or times in the Word. I would submit to you that Genesis is a spiritual book mostly outside of space and time focusing on what God sees rather than an actual historical account in time from man's perspective. If we see Genesis (and the rest of the Bible) as a book from natural (carnal) man's perspective, this will put God at odds with science because we can't reconcile things then. "How could there exist a pre-Adamic man who has different DNA?" for example. Does this mean we can't trust proven scientific DNA testing? Or are we missing something in Genesis? NOPE! Both can be trusted as both are based on the truth who is God himself. God simply has not chose to reveal the whole truth, only part of it. It is the job of Christ inside our hearts to unveil our minds and show us the truth according to God's will which makes it come via faith.

On the other hand, if a person insists that the Earth is definitely 7-10K years old as the Bible would indicate, then they have to also explain the amazing amount of rock-solid scientific evidence that says the Earth is much older. For example, the advanced age testing of bones and rocks as well as the previously mentioned DNA testing of the "types" of man before our current Homo-sapiens whom I believe to be Adam. I have believed both but all my scripture study has led me to conclusively believe the time gap covers all of the scientific findings. If anything, each time science make's a "new finding", it seems to further confirm scripture. Isn't this what we want? I know I do. My God looks bigger and more glorious, and science keeps proving that.

The reason why I am so interested in this because if you read the article I wrote about this, you will see that a time gap between the verses fully supports current and ongoing scientific evidence. This is very good because like I have been saying and believing, science and God are not against each other and when seen this way, science actually proves GOD! God owns science and science is but a small subset or "spec" of God. The only reason they appear to be against each other is when we insist on a natural, carnal understanding of scripture and force all events into space and time of the natural mind. This creates the dichotomy between science and God that IMHO does not exist. If we ever want to resolve this, we have to be open to new understanding as the Spirit leads us instead of always accepting the "traditions" that man has told us to believe. Look at what Jesus said in Mark 7:13. I believe this is very relevant to my point.

thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that." Mark 7:13

When we follow our "tradition" that man has told us is true instead of asking the very Spirit inside us to teach us, we are actually invalidating the Word itself.

I am so glad times are changing as we are getting new and deeper revelation and understanding. I suspect we will one day find that science and God or truth are in complete congruence with each other. God himself is truth and science will not accept anything false. They will merge as one. God is one.

Great discussion.

Kicked.

 

[TOG]

I see a few problems with that theory. Quite a few, in fact. Your article says...

It says that at the very beginning of everything, God created the Heavens and the Earth. I read it as saying this is even before the current account (in Genesis 1 and 2) we are telling you about. Because if you go to verse 2, it reads as if (now) The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters Genesis 1:2 NASB

Perhaps God had some serious judgments that occurred before the Adamic race was created?

Or maybe He was like a potter, who starts out with a formless lump of clay, which he uses to make a thing of beauty.

It is also very interesting that in Genesis 1 the wording says “after their kind”. If this was the first creation, then there would be NO kind that existed before this.

That's not what "after" means in this context. It means "according to their kind".

Then there are a number of other points to consider. For example the sun, moon and stars were not created until the 4th day. Was there just the earth and nothing else for all those millions of years between the first two verses? And then there's the problem of death. Death, according to the Bible, is a result of sin. Sin entered the world through Adam, but there was, presumably death during the ages between the first two verses.

The gap theory is intended to reconcile two irreconcilable theories - that the world was created in 6 days and that it evolved over billions of years - but it fits neither theory. There are serious problems with it, both scientific and theological.

The TOG​

 

[reba]

Watering down the Scriptures will not make the science community embrace the Bible... God does not need the science community... They need God... God's Word is thee authority.

 

[TOG]

Watering down the Scriptures will not make the science community embrace the Bible... God does not need the science community... They need God... God's Word is thee authority.

The TOG​

 

[for_his_glory]

Satan’s fall from heaven is symbolically described in Isaiah 14:12-14 and Ezekiel 28:12-18. These two passages are referring to the kings of Babylon and Tyre, but also have a dual reference to
the spiritual power behind them, known as Satan.

The angels were created before the earth, Job 38:4-7, and Satan fell before he tempted Adam and Eve, Genesis 3:1-14. Scripture does not say when Satan fell, but we see that it was before
tempting Adam and Eve as per Ezekiel 28:12-18. Satan was the guardian set over the garden of Eden before the creation of man. According to Job 1:6, 7 Satan still had access to heaven and
the throne of God as he was roaming through the earth moving freely between the two and giving account to God as he spoke to Him. Scripture is silent as giving an exact time when God cast
Satan out of heaven and having access to the throne of God, but it was before that of the Assyrian mentioned in Ezekiel 31 that were Pre-Adamic human beings living in or near the garden of
God which is/was somewhere close to Lebanon as the river Hiddekel flowed into it.

Genesis 1:28 God told Adam and Eve to replenish the earth, Genesis 9:1 God told Noah to replenish the earth after the flood. By these passages from the Bible we can see that this world is
much older than 6000 years and was inhabited by man way before the creation of Adam and Eve as the key word here is replenish. Why would God tell them to replenish the earth if there were
not others here before Adam and Eve.

From the time God created the heavens and the earth until that of creating Adam and Eve could have spanned more than 6000 years as we do see Dinosaurs and dragons mention throughout
scripture, Job 30: 29; Job 40:15-18, 23; Job 41; Isaiah 27:1; Isaiah 34:13; Isaiah 35:7; Isaiah 51:9; Deu 32:33; Psalms 44:19; Psalms 74:13; Isaiah 43:20; Jer 9:11; Jer 10:22; Jer 49:33; Micah
1:8; Mal 1:3.

My question is who decided man has only been here for 6000 years?

 

[agua.]

Watering down the Scriptures will not make the science community embrace the Bible... God does not need the science community... They need God... God's Word is thee authority.

Unfortunately some Christians think that the creation account describes the nuts and bolts of how Yahweh created and try to use it to refute science. Best to stick with what we know.

 

[turnorburn]

6000 years? The bible convinced me who said it wasn't? man?

tob

* edit: Its not a debate thread sorry i just saw that.

 

[TOG]

Satan was the guardian set over the garden of Eden before the creation of man.

then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature. And the Lord God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, and there he put the man whom he had formed. (Gen. 2:7-8 ESV)
​

God planted the garden in Eden after he created man, so Satan could hardly have been it's guardian before man was created.

The TOG​

 

[for_his_glory]

TOG, read that verse again, it says God planted a Garden, in the east, and there he put the man after He created him. The garden was already there before Adam was created and nowhere does it say how long it was between the time God planted the garden up to the time God created Adam.