God's Great Free Gift of Salvation for Everyone

[Robert Pate]

Well whats called calvinism, the Doctrines of Grace TULIP is nothing but the Tenants of the Gospel of Gods Grace.

No, its called hearing and believing.

 

[Hopeful]

My relationship with the Lord is NOT based upon my obedience to the law.

It had better be based on obedience to God, or you will get tossed into the lake of fire.

Jesus has fulfilled every jot and tittle of the law for me, Matthew 5:18. This is why Paul wrote, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to those that believe" Romans 10:4. Do you believe?

Oh yeah.
Righteousness comes by a way far different than the Law.
Love God with all your strength and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

God now sees me as perfect and complete "IN CHRIST" Colossians 2:10. Not only that, it is not possible for me to sin because the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. "Where there is no law there is no sin" Romans 4:15.

Amen, but can you realize that those who do break a Law are still under the Law?

You are probably hearing some things you have never heard before because you are religious and go to the organized church.

Don't jump to conclusions.
It is written..."Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." (James 1:27)
Can a sinner be "unspotted from the world"?

 

[Hopeful]

pate



If its based upon anything you did, then its just as same as the law. If you meet any condition of obedience to get saved, its a law principle in force, and you may as well try to keep the whole law for salvation.

You have just outlawed obedience to God...to be saved.
So you have displaced the Law of Moses...and the law of Christ, with sin.
Shall we commit a whole lot of sin to increase the glory God gets for giving us grace?
I hope you realize the anti-love aspects of your new religion.

 

[Hopeful]

Hogwash. The Gospel calls for a response. Those that hear and believe will be saved, Romans 10:17. Hearing and believing is not a work or a work of the law.

Neither is repentance from sin and getting baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins
Neither is enduring faithfully till the day of judgement.

 

[brightfame52]

Which then makes any attempt to achieve that law into a work, and the Bible is abundantly clear about that - that no one can be saved by their works - which work in God's eyes is of spiritual debt and not grace.

[Rom 4:4 KJV] 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Yes. The word law covers a broad spectrum, its the word nomos:

anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command

1. of any law whatsoever
   1. a law or rule producing a state approved of God
      1. by the observance of which is approved of God
   2. a precept or injunction
   3. the rule of action prescribed by reason

Notice it includes a command, and Gospel Obedience is a Command,

Itsnt Repentance a command according to Acts 17:30

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

So if one says God saved me because I obeyed the command to repent, then they are advocating being saved by law keeping, a condition !

 

[brightfame52]

Hogwash. The Gospel calls for a response. Those that hear and believe will be saved, Romans 10:17. Hearing and believing is not a work or a work of the law.

No its real. You condition salvation on anything you must do, you obligated to keep the whole law, you better not sneeze wrong.

 

[brightfame52]

No, its called hearing and believing.

So you an arminian and condition salvation on what you do,the essence of mans religion !

 

[rogerg]

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

So if one says God saved me because I obeyed the command to repent, then they are advocating being saved by law keeping, a condition !

Yes, and not only that, but for those saved, God GIVES to them the gift of repentance - it is not of/from themselves. The repentance being from one's dead works for salvation unto a full and complete trust in Christ as their Saviour.

[Rom 2:4 KJV] 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

[Heb 6:1 KJV]
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

[Heb 9:14 KJV]
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

 

[brightfame52]

rogerg

Yes, and not only that, but for those saved, God GIVES to them the gift of repentance - it is not of/from themselves.

Correct and thats who God is commanding to repent in Acts 17:30, those who have been born again and have the gift of repentance imparted in their new Spiritual life

 

[Robert Pate]

So you an arminian and condition salvation on what you do,the essence of mans religion !

No man can come to God if he is not called by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ. I became a Christian because the Holy Spirit called me. I did not resist the call, but I could have. I resisted many times before.

 

[brightfame52]

No man can come to God if he is not called by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ. I became a Christian because the Holy Spirit called me. I did not resist the call, but I could have. I resisted many times before.

When God regenerates a person, gives them Spiritual life, then He calls them to the hearing and believing of the True Gospel. But what does this have to do with you and people like you who condition salvation on the will of man ?

 

[Robert Pate]

When God regenerates a person, gives them Spiritual life, then He calls them to the hearing and believing of the True Gospel. But what does this have to do with you and people like you who condition salvation on the will of man ?

What makes you think that a man does not have a free will? Adam did not lose his freewill in the fall, what he lost was his relationship with God. Is everything that is happening on the earth being programed by God? Is all of the sin and corruption being programed by God? Is man nothing more than a dumb programed robot with no will of his own? The doctrine of predestination is an insult to man's intellect.

 

[brightfame52]

What makes you think that a man does not have a free will? Adam did not lose his freewill in the fall, what he lost was his relationship with God. Is everything that is happening on the earth being programed by God? Is all of the sin and corruption being programed by God? Is man nothing more than a dumb programed robot with no will of his own? The doctrine of predestination is an insult to man's intellect.

Man until he is quickened, he is dead in sin, a servant of sin, dead to God.

 

[rogerg]

What makes you think that a man does not have a free will?

This:

[1Co 2:14 KJV]
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
[2Co 4:4 KJV] 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[Robert Pate]

This:

[1Co 2:14 KJV]
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
[2Co 4:4 KJV] 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The natural man is an unsaved man. 8,000 Jews heard Peter's Gospel on the day of Pentecost and were saved, Acts 2:41-47. Also Acts 4:4. This means that, "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17. Which is the Gospel.

 

[rogerg]

The natural man is an unsaved man. 8,000 Jews heard Peter's Gospel on the day of Pentecost and were saved, Acts 2:41-47. Also Acts 4:4. This means that, "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17. Which is the Gospel.

So, you are saying the verses posted to you previously are somehow wrong? Don't they clearly inform that unsaved man simply CANNOT understand - read them again closely. Consequently, anyone who has understanding, has it only because he has been spiritually renewed: saved/born-again - there is no way around it, unless, that is, you believe those verses are in error - but you can't have it both ways - you have to choose one or the other, and go with it: either they're error or one must first be saved.
As brightfame52 and I have posted, the hearing in view is spiritual hearing, not human hearing. The only way to have it is for it to be given through becoming saved.
Those in Acts 2:41-47, 4:4 were saved/born-again first, and because of that, they heard, it was not the reverse. Had they not been saved/born again first, then they wouldn't/couldn't have heard - the verses below confirm that beyond question.
Regarding Romans 10:17, it is not our faith which saves us, instead, our faith comes about as a byproduct or attribute of salvation.

Jhn 8:47 nHe that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God
[Jhn 8:43 KJV] 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.

[Mat 11:15 KJV] 15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
[Mar 4:9 KJV] 9 And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

[Mat 13:16 KJV] 16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

 

[brightfame52]

The natural man is an unsaved man. 8,000 Jews heard Peter's Gospel on the day of Pentecost and were saved, Acts 2:41-47. Also Acts 4:4. This means that, "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17. Which is the Gospel.

Right, the natural man cannot spiritually hear, and understand the spiritual things of God 1 Cor 2:14. Now those jews who heard peter that day were regenerated/saved by the Spirit, so they could hear Spiritually and convert. Remember Jesus told us who it is that hears spiritually right here Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[Robert Pate]

So, you are saying the verses posted to you previously are somehow wrong? Don't they clearly inform that unsaved man simply CANNOT understand - read them again closely. Consequently, anyone who has understanding, has it only because he has been spiritually renewed: saved/born-again - there is no way around it, unless, that is, you believe those verses are in error - but you can't have it both ways - you have to choose one or the other, and go with it: either they're error or one must first be saved.
As brightfame52 and I have posted, the hearing in view is spiritual hearing, not human hearing. The only way to have it is for it to be given through becoming saved.
Those in Acts 2:41-47, 4:4 were saved/born-again first, and because of that, they heard, it was not the reverse. Had they not been saved/born again first, then they wouldn't/couldn't have heard - the verses below confirm that beyond question.
Regarding Romans 10:17, it is not our faith which saves us, instead, our faith comes about as a byproduct or attribute of salvation.

Jhn 8:47 nHe that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God
[Jhn 8:43 KJV] 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.

[Mat 11:15 KJV] 15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
[Mar 4:9 KJV] 9 And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

[Mat 13:16 KJV] 16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

Predestination is anti-gospel and anti-Christ. You might be better off to be an atheist than to believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born. That is out right blaspheme against God, his Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. John Calvin was a demon and was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of people. The Holy Spirit is only given to those that believe the Gospel, Galatians 3:2. Since you don't believe the Gospel, you are apparently void of the Spirit.

 

[rogerg]

Predestination is anti-gospel and anti-Christ. You might be better off to be an atheist than to believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born. That is out right blaspheme against God, his Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. John Calvin was a demon and was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of people. The Holy Spirit is only given to those that believe the Gospel, Galatians 3:2. Since you don't believe the Gospel, you are apparently void of the Spirit.

Are you trying to change the subject? You didn't answer whether you believe the verses we provided to you were included in the Bible in error or not? So, which is it?

Faith is given as a fruit of the Holy Spirit only unto those who are given the Holy Spirit, not the reverse.

So, it is your belief that God is not competent to identify who is to be saved and who is not to be saved, but believe instead that man is better equipped to make that determination than God? Really? For your information, it was not God who predestinated to hell, it was Satan, Adam and Eve who imposed that judgment upon all mankind. It is only by God's mercy and grace that anyone gets to escape it - yet no one deserves escape. Instead, God should be profusely thanked for being exceedingly merciful and gracious beyond understanding, not criticized and disrespected for so doing.

Anyway, as can be seen by your comments above, and as brightfame52 in effect correctly stated, you are left with only your own works for salvation turning your back on God's grace. Not that you can change it (although God still can), but only to inform you, that you are in very great peril and jeopardy indeed.

Not only do I believe the Gospel, but I understand it too. God had graciously chosen through salvation, that my trust for salvation should be in the Saviour Himself and in His finished work alone, not in myself. Apparently, you do not share the same belief - you reject the one true Saviour as Saviour, which Saviour, is Christ.

And regarding Gal 3:2, the hearing was spiritual, and the faith was Christ's, not theirs. The Holy Spirit came unto them and "ministereth" to them, and by whom, were they given spiritual hearing for the comprehending of Christ's obedience and faith to the Father, not their own.

[Gal 3:2, 5 KJV]
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? ...
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

 

[gordon777]

Gods great free gift of salvation is in believing the Gospel.

The example of Christ is meek lowly on a donkey, humbling Himself to the death of the cross.

Without being the least, how does anyone expect to have greatness ?

The example of the great salvation of Jesus Christ, is that least grain of mustard seed, to be rejected of men, the least esteemed, Isaiah 53:3, then to grow to become the greatest, so that the birds of the air have a place to lodge. Matthew 13:32 ( forever living in Christ who now fills Heaven and earth.)




Luke 9:48 And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.



When your argument is to determine who is the greatest, who goes to heaven or who goes to hell, don't you think you got things upside down, all declaring they are right and truthful and saved, and accusing the other of being false ?

The way is not declared as you guys are showing, it is the very opposite, as only the one who is least among all, shall be great. ( for that great salvation of Christ.,)