brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Oh no, they believe not because the Gospel is hid from them, thats a consequence of being in a lost state. How can a lost person believe something that is being hidden from them ?
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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God's Great Free Gift of Salvation for Everyone
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
rogerg
Exactly
Right man can hear naturally the word of God, but in that lost condition it is foolishness to them, they despise it, they cant spiritually understand it or appraise it. So when Jesus says " He that is of God heareth Gods words Jn 8:47 He means a spiritual hearing, and the truth is understood and loved.
Yep man in some fashion or other will always condition salvation on something they did. Unfortunately thats a indication a person is in a lost state, we can only hope they are one of Gods elect so they will be delivered
Exactly
Right man can hear naturally the word of God, but in that lost condition it is foolishness to them, they despise it, they cant spiritually understand it or appraise it. So when Jesus says " He that is of God heareth Gods words Jn 8:47 He means a spiritual hearing, and the truth is understood and loved.
Yep man in some fashion or other will always condition salvation on something they did. Unfortunately thats a indication a person is in a lost state, we can only hope they are one of Gods elect so they will be delivered
Christ_empowered
Member
I think of it this way….
Remember the Billy Graham crusades? Lots of people got saved…
The vast majority were unchanged. Some were saved per God’s will right then and there…
Some saw God give the increase later on…
But again: most said a prayer felt warm and fuzzy and were left essentially unchanged.
Why?
Remember the Billy Graham crusades? Lots of people got saved…
The vast majority were unchanged. Some were saved per God’s will right then and there…
Some saw God give the increase later on…
But again: most said a prayer felt warm and fuzzy and were left essentially unchanged.
Why?
Because Christ alone as the Saviour is the one who saves. We are not.
Robert Pate
Member
Salvation has always been by grace through faith, even in the Old Testament era.
"But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, HIS FAITH is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.
Under the New Covenant God's people are justified by faith.
"For by grace are you saved through faith; and not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" Ephesians 2:8.
Faith comes by hearing and believing the Gospel, "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.
If faith comes by hearing and believing the Gospel, then hear the Gospel, which is before Romans 10:17.
Does anyone see that even though it is the free gift of God, that unless people are prepared to reciprocate the gift and giving of God, they shall lose it ?
hat is why whosoever wants to save their life, looses it. But if anyone ( whosoever) recognises that Gods giving to them of a free gift, requires them to lose their life, for and by hearing the Gospels sake, they shall save their life.
Mark 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
Of course this is verified, by Peter and all the Apostles, who all left all to follow Christ.
They left houses, brothers, sisters, mothers, child4ren, and lands, for the sake of Christ and the Gospel. ( that is the requirement and that is the belief, of Gods giving of a free gift, to believe in giving the same way.)
Nor is that something you can, or cannot do, nor is it something you can do in time, nor is it for some people and not for others. ( if a person does not believe n how God giv0se the free gift, they never hear the Gospel.)
Mark 10:28 Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.
29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
31 But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.
Again that is WHY, the testimony continues to prove it is the same for everybody, without exception. ( remember the testimony is WHOMSOEVER.)
All believers show the same, and on top of that, the Apostle to the Gentiles, Apostle Paul is that very example of what free gift God gives, and what requirements are with it. ( to hear the message of a free gift, is by sacrifice of everything of your life, FOR THE SAKE OF CHRIST AND THE GOSPEL.)
Acts 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
Acts 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Philippians 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
No - for those whom God has chosen, He has made Himself guarantor of (their) salvation unto the end.
Those who become saved, are solely so, and remain, because of what Christ did, and not in any way because of what they do.
[Phl 1:6 KJV]
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
[1Pe 1:5 KJV]
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
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brightfame52
2024 Supporter
All those scriptures you quote are true, however you teach salvation conditioned on man, which have nothing to do with the scripture you quoted.
Agreed. Plus, I believe the "his faith" in that verse is Christ's faith(fulness) and obedience and is that which is "counted for righteousness" unto all the saved. It cannot be of ourselves, because righteousness is only through Christ - of ourselves, there is no righteousness.
[Rom 4:6 KJV]
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
[Rom 3:22 KJV]
22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
[Phl 3:9 KJV]
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
[2Pe 1:1 KJV] 1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
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brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Rogerg
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
Right notice this righteousness of God is UPON all them that believe, everyone Christ performed His Covenant Suretyship faithfulness/obedience for, it [the Righteousness of God] was imputed to them that are given Faith to believe. In other words believing the Gospel is an evidence that Christs Righteousness has indeed been laid to ones account.
Agreed, or Abrahams God given Faith has Christs Imputed Righteousness in view, Faith reveals to us Christ is our Righteousness made so by God 1 Cor 1:30
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
Right notice this righteousness of God is UPON all them that believe, everyone Christ performed His Covenant Suretyship faithfulness/obedience for, it [the Righteousness of God] was imputed to them that are given Faith to believe. In other words believing the Gospel is an evidence that Christs Righteousness has indeed been laid to ones account.
Robert Pate
Member
Righteousness is only by faith, "Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him righteousness" Romans 4:3. It is not imposed upon anyone.
Robert Pate
Member
If one does not respond to the Gospel by faith, they will never see heaven.
Christ's faith was reckoned to Abraham. It wasn't, nor could it be, Abraham's faith that brought him righteousness
to him
[Rom 4:9 KJV]
9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Of themselves, no one can have true faith. If someone believes that faith is of themselves,
then by that, they demonstrate that they don't have it.
Robert Pate
Member
Faith is given to those that hear and believe the Gospel. On the day of Pentecost 8,000 Jews heard Peter's Gospel, believed Peter's Gospel and were saved, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4. The Bible refutes you. "So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, Romans 10:17, (which is the Gospel).
Robert Pate
Member
Hogwash. It does not say that Christ's faith was reckoned to Abraham. It says Abraham believed God. You are adding to God's word.
Hogwash on your hogwash. See the "obtained" and "through" below?
[2Pe 1:1 KJV] 1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Faith comes with Salvation, everyone Christ died for has been Justified/made righteous, and so they are given Faith to believe in Christ.
Robert Pate
Member
The Bible does not say, "Faith comes with salvation" What it does say is, "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" Romans 1:17.
You are willing to say and do anything to appease your Calvinist God.
Robert Pate
Member
The like precious faith comes by hearing and believing the Gospel, Romans 10:17. Paul said, "The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes" Romans 1:17. You must hear it and believe it by faith.