God's Great Free Gift of Salvation for Everyone

[Robert Pate]

Wake up!

Jesus has ALREADY reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

God requires two things for the salvation of fallen man.

1. A life of perfect obedience according to his holy law.

2. A perfect atonement for the sins of humanity.

Jesus in our name and on our behalf, has victoriously met both of these requirements. Accept your reconciliation and be saved.

 

[brightfame52]

Predestination is anti-gospel and anti-Christ. You might be better off to be an atheist than to believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born. That is out right blaspheme against God, his Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. John Calvin was a demon and was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of people. The Holy Spirit is only given to those that believe the Gospel, Galatians 3:2. Since you don't believe the Gospel, you are apparently void of the Spirit.

One cannot hear and believe the Gospel unless they are born of God. Jesus tells us who hears Gods words Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

So we can say the Holy Spirit has been given to them who believe the Gospel, which Gospel contains the Truth of predestination. Peter preached predestination in his first sermon Acts 2:23

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

He preached it in Acts 4:27-28

27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
Paul preached it Eph 1:5

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

 

[brightfame52]

Wake up!

Jesus has ALREADY reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

God requires two things for the salvation of fallen man.

1. A life of perfect obedience according to his holy law.

2. A perfect atonement for the sins of humanity.

Jesus in our name and on our behalf, has victoriously met both of these requirements. Accept your reconciliation and be saved.

The world in 2 Cor 5:19 is a Justified world without sin charged to it. So its saved from sin. Thats not everyone unless you are promoting the false gospel of universalism. Is that what you are doing ?

 

[brightfame52]

rogerg

And regarding Gal 3:2, the hearing was spiritual, and the faith was Christ's, not theirs. The Holy Spirit came unto them and "ministereth" to them, and by whom, were they given spiritual hearing for the comprehending of Christ's obedience and faith to the Father, not their own.

Many arminians abuse this scripture, but as you know one has to already be born of the Spirit in order to hear spiritually. So in a sense we as regenerated receive[by faith] the things of the Spirit we hear, we receive the things of the Spirit 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So we may understand Gal 3:2

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the things of the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Because in order to receive the things of the Spirit, they had to be spiritually discerned

Remember Jesus said His words are Spirit Jn 6:63

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

 

[Robert Pate]

One cannot hear and believe the Gospel unless they are born of God. Jesus tells us who hears Gods words Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

So we can say the Holy Spirit has been given to them who believe the Gospel, which Gospel contains the Truth of predestination. Peter preached predestination in his first sermon Acts 2:23

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

He preached it in Acts 4:27-28

27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
Paul preached it Eph 1:5

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

You see everything through your Calvinist glasses. I see everything according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. In the Gospel Jesus has Already reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. No laws, rules or religion needed.

 

[Robert Pate]

rogerg



Many arminians abuse this scripture, but as you know one has to already be born of the Spirit in order to hear spiritually. So in a sense we as regenerated receive[by faith] the things of the Spirit we hear, we receive the things of the Spirit 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So we may understand Gal 3:2

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the things of the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Because in order to receive the things of the Spirit, they had to be spiritually discerned

Remember Jesus said His words are Spirit Jn 6:63

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

So, you have to be saved to be saved? The Holy Spirit is only given to those that hear and believe the Gospel. You don't have to be saved to hear and believe the Gospel. The 8,000 Jews that were saved on the day of Pentecost had never heard Peter's Gospel before Pentecost.

 

[brightfame52]

You see everything through your Calvinist glasses. I see everything according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. In the Gospel Jesus has Already reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. No laws, rules or religion needed.

You see things as an ariminian. I have showed you the world in 2 Cor 5:18-19 is Saved and Justified without sin. Are you a universalist ?

 

[brightfame52]

Pate

So, you have to be saved to be saved?

Yes. You have to be born of the Spirit in order to hear and believe the Gospel of your Salvation. Jesus tells us who it is that hears [spiritually] the words of God Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

He that is of God is a saved person !

 

[Robert Pate]

Pate


Yes. You have to be born of the Spirit in order to hear and believe the Gospel of your Salvation. Jesus tells us who it is that hears [spiritually] the words of God Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

He that is of God is a saved person !

A saved person is a person that has heard the Gospel, believed the Gospel and was convicted by the Holy Spirit of their need for Christ. Just like the 8,000 Jews that were saved on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4.

"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17. Which is the Gospel.

There are multitudes of people, much like yourself that claim to be of God. Those that are of God have embraced Christ and his Gospel as their only means of salvation. You have embraced the doctrines of a heretic.

 

[brightfame52]

A saved person is a person that has heard the Gospel, believed the Gospel and was convicted by the Holy Spirit of their need for Christ. Just like the 8,000 Jews that were saved on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4.

"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17. Which is the Gospel.

There are multitudes of people, much like yourself that claim to be of God. Those that are of God have embraced Christ and his Gospel as their only means of salvation. You have embraced the doctrines of a heretic.

You must be saved first in order to hear , understand and believe the Gospel of Christ. The Gospel is hid to the lost 2 Cor 4:3

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

As long as one is in a lost unregenerated state, the Gospel is hid to the understanding. The natural man cannot receive it, not in a saving conversion.

 

[Robert Pate]

You must be saved first in order to hear , understand and believe the Gospel of Christ. The Gospel is hid to the lost 2 Cor 4:3

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

As long as one is in a lost unregenerated state, the Gospel is hid to the understanding. The natural man cannot receive it, not in a saving conversion.

You are mixing up the stages of salvation. The natural man is the unsaved man, he has rejected Christ as his savior.

The 8,000 Jews that were saved on the day of Pentecost were saved in this order.

1. They heard Peter's Gospel, Acts 2:14-36.

2. The believed Peter's Gospel, Acts 2:41-44.

3. They received the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:38.

 

[brightfame52]

You are mixing up the stages of salvation. The natural man is the unsaved man, he has rejected Christ as his savior.

The 8,000 Jews that were saved on the day of Pentecost were saved in this order.

1. They heard Peter's Gospel, Acts 2:14-36.

2. The believed Peter's Gospel, Acts 2:41-44.

3. They received the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:38.

Sorry, a lost person has the Gospel hid from them, thats what Paul taught 2 Cor 4:3
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

The word hid is perfect passive, its a completed action upon them as lost. Now the only way a person can believe the Gospel for Salvation, is if God saves them first by new birth.

So that means if someone Spiritually hears the Gospel and believes, they had to be already regenerated saved. You do understand regeneration is also being saved as well Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost

Now after the washing of regeneration, the renewing of the Holy Ghost, man can hear and believe the Gospel unto Salvation or conversion.

 

[Robert Pate]

Sorry, a lost person has the Gospel hid from them, thats what Paul taught 2 Cor 4:3
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

The word hid is perfect passive, its a completed action upon them as lost. Now the only way a person can believe the Gospel for Salvation, is if God saves them first by new birth.

So that means if someone Spiritually hears the Gospel and believes, they had to be already regenerated saved. You do understand regeneration is also being saved as well Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost

Now after the washing of regeneration, the renewing of the Holy Ghost, man can hear and believe the Gospel unto Salvation or conversion.

You have misinterpreted 2 Corinthians 4:3.

The Gospel is hid to them that are lost because they "Believe not," 2 Corinthians 4:4.

"They believe not, lest the glorious Gospel of Christ, who is the image of God should shine unto them".

They have the same problem that you have. "They believe not".

 

[rogerg]

Sorry, a lost person has the Gospel hid from them, thats what Paul taught 2 Cor 4:3
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

The word hid is perfect passive, its a completed action upon them as lost. Now the only way a person can believe the Gospel for Salvation, is if God saves them first by new birth.

So that means if someone Spiritually hears the Gospel and believes, they had to be already regenerated saved. You do understand regeneration is also being saved as well Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost

Now after the washing of regeneration, the renewing of the Holy Ghost, man can hear and believe the Gospel unto Salvation or conversion.

It's just not registering on him, brightfame52. No one can hear spiritually or truly believe until becoming saved and indwelt by the Holy Spirit -- that's the whole point of the verses you've been posting. Sure, the lost can hear
with the ears of the unsaved, but being unsaved, it will never find a place within them, and therefore,
to them, folly. It seems no matter how many times you re-explain it, he keeps going back to his starting point.
I believe the reason for it is that he believes salvation is achieved through man's intellect and choosing. So, based upon that, it would make perfect sense to him that one would have to hear first, generate their faith, and from that, become saved.

 

[Robert Pate]

It's just not registering on him, brightfame52. No one can hear spiritually or truly believe until becoming saved and indwelt by the Holy Spirit -- that's the whole point of the verses you've been posting. Sure, the lost can hear
with the ears of the unsaved, but being unsaved, it will never find a place within them, and therefore,
to them, folly. It seems no matter how many times you re-explain it, he keeps going back to his starting point.
I believe the reason for it is that he believes salvation is achieved through man's intellect and choosing. So, based upon that, it would make perfect sense to him that one would have to hear first, generate their faith, and from that, become saved.

There is nothing in the Bible that teaches what you believe. If you want to make a point you should do it with scripture. Otherwise, it is nothing but hot air.

 

[rogerg]

That's exactly what brightfame52 HAS BEEN DOING. That was my whole point.

 

[rogerg]

You have misinterpreted 2 Corinthians 4:3.

The Gospel is hid to them that are lost because they "Believe not," 2 Corinthians 4:4.

"They believe not, lest the glorious Gospel of Christ, who is the image of God should shine unto them".

They have the same problem that you have. "They believe not".

Here, here is your translation (not mine) from the links you provided. In 4:3 we see that it is veiled to ALL those perishing. The unsaved are those perishing. So then, to all of the unsaved, it is veiled, and they can have no comprehension of things spiritual. Consequently, to become unveiled, something/someone outside of themselves must first intervene to change that, otherwise, it remains veiled to them. Likewise, in your 4:4, all unbelievers have minds that are blinded, so therefore, to become unblinded, someone/something outside of themselves must first intervene so they "see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ". Anyone who has ever become saved,
before becoming saved, were of the perishing and of the blinded.

2 Corinthians 4:3 — The New International Version (NIV)​

3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,

2 Corinthians 4:4 — The New International Version (NIV)​

4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

 

[Robert Pate]

Here, here is your translation (not mine) from the links you provided. In 4:3 we see that it is veiled to ALL those perishing. The unsaved are those perishing. So then, to all of the unsaved, it is veiled, and they can have no comprehension of things spiritual. Consequently, to become unveiled, something/someone outside of themselves must first intervene to change that, otherwise, it remains veiled to them. Likewise, in your 4:4, all unbelievers have minds that are blinded, so therefore, to become unblinded, someone/something outside of themselves must first intervene so they "see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ". Anyone who has ever become saved,
before becoming saved, were of the perishing and of the blinded.

2 Corinthians 4:3 — The New International Version (NIV)​

3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,

2 Corinthians 4:4 — The New International Version (NIV)​

4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

They were blinded because they didn't believe.

"In whom the God of the world has blinded the minds of them WHICH BELIEVE NOT" 2 Corinthians 4:4.

 

[rogerg]

There is nothing in the Bible that teaches what you believe. If you want to make a point you should do it with scripture. Otherwise, it is nothing but hot air.

What I should have included in my last reply to you is, that which must first intervene to remove the veil and to become unblinded, is God and His salvation, from which, does the Holy Spirit indwell recipient of salvation

 

[rogerg]

They were blinded because they didn't believe.

"In whom the God of the world has blinded the minds of them WHICH BELIEVE NOT" 2 Corinthians 4:4.

So, if their minds were blinded, how then could they believe?
That is, that which they needed to believe was blinded, so they couldn't.
They didn't believe BECAUSE they were blinded, not the reverse.
Therefore, something/someone first must intervene on their behalf in order for them to believe.
That someone/something that must intervene is God and salvation.