brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Who is it that Hears the word of God according to Jesus Jn 8:47
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
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God's Great Free Gift of Salvation for Everyone
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
The Spirit has been given to them that hear the Gospel, the word of God. Who does Jesus say it is who hears the words of God Jn 8:47
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Eph.1:3-14 is one sentence in the greek.
You and other false teachers take it upon yourself to cut out the truth of God.
You hate election and predestination
You never have understood how God is in total control.
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GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Those that are not of God don't care about God's word.
You're the one that keeps postin 1 Cor 2:14....
don't you even believe what you post?
You miss the whole point.
HOW do we get to be those that hear the word of God?
HOW do we become the sheep that hear their shepherds voice?
And have you ever considered how Jesus left the 99 to go after the 1?
He wants all 100 to be in His fold....
God wants that all become saved and that none should perish.
So why would He decide, on His very own, that most of humanity will end up in hell?
Doesn't that go against God's very wishes?
If you read down to verse 14 you will find it is about the heavenly inheritance of those who are called. In this life, the called suffered terribly. Think of Paul who was beaten and imprisoned, the apostles who were horribly murdered and Jesus who died a terrible death. If you are suffering like those who are called, fair enough, but your posts give the opposite impression.
Robert Pate
Member
God is not in total control. You want to blame all of this corruption and sin on God.
The Bible no where declares that none will perish, or that God is not going to cast multitudes into the second death.
2 pet.3:9 is speaking of those elected who have not yet been born,and savingly drawn to Jesus.
Not one of them, to-usward will perish
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Iconoclast,
If those on my side of the fence hate election and predestination,
I could safely say that those on your side of the fence hate the love
God has for His creatures....
Let's go through Ephesians because the false teachers lie not on my side...
Ephesians 1:1-14
1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus [a]by the will of God, To the https://biblehub.com/nasb_/ephesians/1.htm#fnsaints who are [c]at Ephesus and are faithful in Christ Jesus: Paul is an apostle of Jesus Christ by the choice of God. We are chosen and elected for office. He is writing to the holy people of Ephesus, who are faithful followers of Christ. 2Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, Blessed and praised be God. In Christ we have every spiritual blessing. 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before [d]Him. In love Before God created the world, He had decided to choose us IN CHRIST so that we could be holy and blameless before God Father. 5[e]He predestined us to adoption as sons and daughters through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, God loved us [from verse 4] and made a way for us to be adopted as sons and daughters THROUGH Jesus Christ... according to His will, which is in love, He predestined us to be able to be His children through Jesus. 6to the praise of the glory of His grace, with which He favored us in the Beloved. His grace, His mercy and love, are to be praised for favoring us in the Beloved (Jesus), OR because we belong to His dear Son. 7In [f]Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our wrongdoings, according to the riches of His grace God bought us back through the redemption, blood, of His Son, forgiving us our sins. 8which He [g]lavished on [h]us. In all wisdom and insight God has lavished on us wisdom and insight. 9He https://biblehub.com/nasb_/ephesians/1.htm#fnmade known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He set forth in Him, Now this is important: God has made known to us the mystery of His will... Which He set forth in Christ... Which will fulfill God's own plan (of redemption). In the calvinist system, we cannot know WHY God chooses one human over another. But THIS IS NOT God's will. God desires us to know HOW to become saved, it is a plan HE set into motion to save fallen man, and since God wants as many as possible (all to be saved) to be saved...it is imperative that we know His plan... which, in fact, we do. By reading the gospels and the letters of His inspired NT. 10regarding His plan of the fullness of the times, to bring all things together in Christ, things [j]in the heavens and things on the earth. As stated above. THIS IS THE PLAN. And we certainly know what it is...it is no mystery. 11[k]In Him we also have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things in accordance with the plan of His will, Our inheritance is heaven.... We are predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all in accordance with the PLAN OF HIS WILL. Again, addressed above. God predestined us according to His plan... a plan that is NO MYSTERY. 12to the end that [l]we who were the first to hope in the [m]Christ would be to the praise of His glory. The Jews were the first to find hope in God. He revealed Himself to the Jews (Hebrews). 13In [n]Him, [o]you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also [p]believed, you were sealed in [q]Him with the Holy Spirit of the promise, Now the Greek also, AFTER LISTENING TO THE MESSAGE OF THE GOSPEL FOR THEIR SALVATION, THEN HAVING BELIEVED, were THEN SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT. Ordo Salutis: LISTEN BELIEVE SEALED 14who is a first installment of our inheritance, in regard to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory. Having the Holy Spirit is the 1st installment of our inheritance. 15For this reason I too, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which exists among you and [r]your love for all the saints, Paul thanks God for the strong faith the Greeks have and for their brothers everywhere, and prays for them. Paul prays that God gives the Greek wisdom and continued growth in the knowledge of God. 18I pray that the eyes of your heart https://biblehub.com/nasb_/ephesians/1.htm#fnmay be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the [v]saints, Paul prays that the ***HEART OF THE GREEK MAY BE ENLIGHTENED and that they may know the hope with which He has called them. ***BTW, wasn't their heart supposed to be opened and enlightened and changed upon their regeneration? Looks like you have everything backwards... |
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GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Could you please exegete 2 Peter 3:9?
Thanks.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
So tell us who else is in control besides God ?
The "us-ward" of 2Pe 3:9 is defined by the salutation of 2Pe 1:1. 2Pe is addressed to those of 2Pe 1:1.
It is only they who have "obtained like precious faith" "THROUGH THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD AND OUR SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST"; that is, only those who have been given faith through Christ, not everyone - only the elect.
So too is the "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" - specifically for the
elect, God is not willing that any of those should perish but come to repentance. It is not intended to include everyone
[2Pe 3:9 KJV] 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
[2Pe 1:1 KJV] 1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
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The Biblical God is in total control.
Read psalm115....your god is a made up idol
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
The other member was stating that God is not in total control of sin and evil (or words to that effect).
According to YOU, GOD is in control of sin and evil.
According to every other Christian denomination WE are in control of our actions, which is why God can JUSTLY judge us on our actions - because we freely commit them.
Calvinism, as usual, makes the illogical conclusion that:
WE are in control of our actions (strange because you believe God controls even the dust of the air)...
And God will judge us on our actions...
EVEN THOUGH it is HE that has predestinated every single action you take,,,,including sin and evil.
Yes. Calvinism is so logical....
And to think that God is a God of reason...
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Yes, Peter is addressing those that are already saved.
How could it be specifically for the elect?
It says that God is not willing that any SHOULD PERISH...
The elect are ALREAY SAVED...
2 Peter 3:9 NASB
8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:9 NLT
8But you must not forget this one thing, dear friends: A day is like a thousand years to the Lord, and a thousand years is like a day.
9The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.
It does say PATIENT TOWARD YOU
and PATIENT FOR YOUR SAKE...
So I find this a bit confusing, so, as usual, I check out all the commentaries on biblehub.
All of them agree that ALL PERSONS are being spoken of in verse 9...
HE DOES NOT WANT ANYONE TO PERISH...
It is akin to 1 Timothy 2:4...God desires all men to become saved...
and Ezekiel 18:23 NLT
23“Do you think that I like to see wicked people die? says the Sovereign LORD. Of course not! I want them to turn from their wicked ways and live.
The commentators also mentioned that they come to this conclusion because of God's loving nature.
source: https://biblehub.com/commentaries/2_peter/3-9.htm
Addressed above.
I also want to say that in 2 Peter 3:1 Peter states that he is refreshing, or stirring up, or stimulating their wholesome thinking...
This makes me believe that we are to do this on our own, with the help of the Holy Spirit, and that God did not predestinate the degree to how our wholesome thinking is - or this line of Peter's would not be necessary.
IOW, when we're commanded to do something, I believe God wants US TO DO the action...
And through our free will by obeying the command.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Is Iconoclast going to answer post 508?
Peter is addressing only those who have been given faith, and they are only of the elect. Their faith is not because of themselves but only through the righteousness of their God and Saviour, Jesus Christ - therefore, since it was given to them and not manufactured by them, thus, it can only be that they are of the elect.
The salutation of verse 1:1 establishes the scope of who he was speaking to for the entire book. It was not for everyone. It is that none of the elect should perish - those chosen by God. Look at the verse 1:3. Through His divine power He GAVE to them ALL things (which includes faith). All things - meaning not some things but all things that pertain to life and godliness. To who? To those who obtain faith through Jesus Christ -but not by or through themselves. This eliminates everyone but the elect.
[2Pe 1:3 KJV] 3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
It says "us-ward": it is intended to be only to them not to everyone. They are representative of all who those who will obtain faith through, and by, Christ.
I don't understand your comment. If it is that those who are saved need to be instructed in things spiritual and reminded of things spiritual, I would agree. There are all types of saved people - none are perfect. God dispenses to the saved differing gifts. Not all of them were given the same gifts nor do they all have the same traits. But nevertheless, that has nothing to do with whether or not someone is or will become saved, that is a totally different issue - God alone is the Saviour, we are not.
Not to butt-in but who do you think are the "us"? Those who were chosen are holy and without blame but are so only because they were chosen of God, and not by their own choosing or doing- how could they choose when they weren't yet alive. So, if they are not the elect, then they who were chosen must be everyone who ever lived, and there then can be no judgment against anyone - but we know that cannot be true. So, if not the elect, then who?
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Where does it say they were GIVEN faith?
Where does it say it is not of themselves? (because it isn't, go figure even Peter knew that).
Where does it say it was not manufactured by them?
Why do you add your own theology to verses?
Did you check out my link?
Why do you think YOU know more than all those theologians I linked for you?
Where does it state that NONE OF THE ELECT SHOULD PERISH?
Open up your mind...
read what it says and don't add your own theology to it.
Don't add to what scripture states.
John said not to do this in his last writing.
Agreed.
It eliminates everyone according to you.
It doesn't eliminate everyone according to every other denomination.
The Timothy verse and the Ezekiel verse means nothing?
You make up your own doctrine.
Agreed.
No Roger.
Brains better than ours and not affected by Calvin's theology do not agree with you.
I linked the commentaries - they all agree that it means EVERYONE in the world.
My point is this:
WHY GIVE INSTRUCTION TO PERSONS THAT ARE SAVED IF GOD SAVED THEM AND CONTINUES TO DETERMINE EVERY PART OF THEIR LIVES?
Caps because I'm so tired of saying this.
Do you understand what I'm saying?
If GOD DETERMINES every single act of ours...
WHY is He giving instruction?
It's like this: I'M going to put together the dinner, but I'm giving YOU instruction on how to do it.
It Makes No Sense.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
No such thing as "butting in". An open thread is for everyone to join in.
It's getting late here - help me out.
The "us"---what is the verse?
Those who were chosen were chosen because they answered God's requirements for salvation.
Yes, they were chosen by God BUT FOR A REASON.
God let us know His plan for salvation. He did not keep it hidden from us...it is not a mystery as to who God chose and who He did not choose. We can know HOW to become saved because God wishes that all would be saved...but not all will answer to His requirements. This is what makes God be JUST.
I'm working without the verse, so what do you mean they were not yet alive?
Why does everyone have to be chosen for God to be able to judge?
If God is to be able to judge...WHAT will He base His judgment on?
The fact that HE chose some and the some did everything HE predestined for them?
WHAT IS THERE TO JUDGE?
If I'm doing everything God makes me do because He predestined it from before I was born,
HOW does He hold me accountable.
This IS NOT JUST, and we know that God is a just God.
Yes 1st the 2nd Peter are written to the elect saints who have been scattered no and chapter 3 Peter is contrasting the mockers and scoffers with the beloved saints saints So if you set out a piece of paper and you look at what he says ask the beloved towards us and then contrast it with the wicked the scoffers the one who opposed God the whole time you all see when you get down to verse 89 and all the way down to the end of the chapter does a contrast of the elect and the non electric scoffers and reprobates. You will see the long suffering of God is that hes not willing he bears with the wicked because it's not willing that any of those is Purpose to save all lost he uses a stronger word in the Greek The word bullet my means to create Destin and purposed and hes not willing that any that he is speaking of will parish he will bear with the wicked until everyone is in the place is safe and safely drawn to chri'll show it later on when I could get to a keyboard I'm using voice to text right now but you can see it that'll give you a hint as to what the passage is really teaching