God's Great Free Gift of Salvation for Everyone

[Iconoclast]

Please show where in Romans 8:29-30 God chose THE WHO.

God FOREKNEW who would be saved...
Foreknowing is not causal.
Because God knows something, it does not cause it to happen.

Romans 8:28-30
28And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them.
29For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstbornn among many brothers and sisters. God chose those He knew in advance to become like His Son...HOW, not WHO.
30And having chosen them, he called them to come to him. And having called them, he gave them right standing with himself. And having given them right standing, he gave them his glory.

God called those He knew would be saved to Him.
His foreknowledge does not interfere with our free-will.

You don't choose something because it's foreknown,
You foreknow it because that's what you will choose.

You are confusing Gods omniscience,with biblical foreknowledge.
God knows everything.

Foreknowledge is of the persons, whom He did foreknow.

Your strange version only distorts what the text says.
It says whom and them.

The persons God had an intimate knowledge of.
That is the biblical root of "to know"
...is an intimate knowledge.

 

[GodsGrace]

Definitely a work in all of its forms!

Could you please post a verse that states that faith or believing is a work?
Thanks.
(it would really help).

No, that is not what he taught as to from whence faith comes. Those spiritually dead and in sin while they are in that state are completely oblivious to it just as a dead person is completely oblivious

Again, Faith comes by hearing the word of God.
Romans 10:14-21
14How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!”
As we're told in 1 Corinthians, those that do not know God cannot understand Him.
So, we ask HOW do we get to even know God?
A PREACHER IS SENT to preach the word of God...
The preacher's feet bring good news of good things.
When he preaches, HE IS HEARD.

16However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?” 17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
Not everyone will heed, pay attention to, the good news - just as is said in Isaiah.
But, yes, FAITH COMES BY HEARING THE WORD of Christ.
Faith comes by hearing the good news about God. The good news, as is stated throughout Romans 10 is that salvation is for ALL PERSONS.

18But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have;
“THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH,
AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD.”

[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Amen.

I'll whittle it down to make it easier to see

1) "but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ,"
By Christ's faith(fulness) which is imputed, "we have believed in Christ"
2) "that we might be justified by the faith of Christ"
It was imputed because we were justified by Christ

We are imputed with Christ's righteousness.
Right.

If we speak with our mouth and believe in our heart, we will be saved.
Romans 10:10
8But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
First we believe that Jesus is God AND THEN we are saved.
We are NOT saved first, regenerated, and then believe.
It's plain English.

No. To repent and believe in the Gospel is God's work which can only be given.

I don't know, Roger,
JESUS commanded us to do this...
He didn't say God would do it for us so we could become saved.
Matthew 4:17
17From that time Jesus began to preach and say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Repent means TO TURN AROUND and go toward God.
JESUS is saying that we must do this...repent, go to God, and be saved.
I don't know of any verse in the NT that instructs us not TO DO ANYTHING because God will get around to doing it for us eventually if we are saved.

[Rom 2:4 KJV]
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

Yes indeed. God is kind to lead us, to show us His grace, so that we may repent.
Paul just got through telling us in Romans 1:19-20 that God HAS ALWAYS REVEALED Himself to mankind, so that we will be without excuse when we stand before Him.

True faith is only as a fruit of the Spirit upon becoming born-again
[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,


true faith, in all of its forms, comes solely due to Christ's work in us, not ours

I'm not getting into the above AGAIN.
Gal 5:22 in any other bible version other than the KJV states that it is faithfulness...
but that doesn't suit you or you'd get a modern bible that correctly translates the one you're using that is 500 years old and incorrectly translated in many verses.

But, yes, keep using the bible that suits you the best.

 

[GodsGrace]

You did not Answer my 2 questions.

I answered you.
Read my post 553 carefully and you'll see that I answered both questions.

I mean, do you guys really read what I write?
Or am I just wasting time here?
Are we having a REAL conversation or what?

 

[rogerg]

Could you please post a verse that states that faith or believing is a work?
Thanks.

True faith is not only a work, but should someone have it, was by God's work alone

[Jhn 6:28-29 KJV]
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[Iconoclast]

I answered you.
Read my post 553 carefully and you'll see that I answered both questions.

I mean, do you guys really read what I write?
Or am I just wasting time here?
Are we having a REAL conversation or what?

 

[Iconoclast]

Your post 553 did not answer the question at all. The question is how did the flood destroying the world of young godly demonstrate that God desires to save all people ever born go ahead and answer that now

 

[Robert Pate]

True faith is not only a work, but should someone have it, was by God's work alone

[Jhn 6:28-29 KJV]
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 6:28-29 is not teaching salvation by works (what we do) it is teaching that we are saved by the work of God, which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ and concerns Christ work.

 

[rogerg]

Again, Faith comes by hearing the word of God.

The hearing is with spiritual ears, not human ears. God only gives spiritual ears to those He makes born again.

So, we ask HOW do we get to even know God?
A PREACHER IS SENT to preach the word of God...
The preacher's feet bring good news of good things.
When he preaches, HE IS HEARD.

Only the elect will come to a true knowledge of God. No one else will be able to, no matter how much nor how often they hear the Gospel. It is a spiritual issue, not an intellectual one.

We are imputed with Christ's righteousness.
Right.

The elect, and only the elect are they who will be imputed Christ's righteousness. Not everyone is.

First we believe that Jesus is God AND THEN we are saved.
We are NOT saved first, regenerated, and then believe.
It's plain English.

Nope - impossible. True faith is given as a fruit of the Spirit. The fruit of the Spirt is given
only upon becoming born-again. Only the saved become born-again.
So, to truly believe one must first be saved.

I don't know, Roger,
JESUS commanded us to do this...
He didn't say God would do it for us so we could become saved.
Matthew 4:17
17From that time Jesus began to preach and say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Only to those whom it is given will/can/do repent, which repentance, is from a trust in dead works for salvation unto Christ. For those to whom it is not given it will fall upon deaf ears, be folly, and meaningless; for those to whom it is given, they will not resist it because they will know/believe in the truth. Faith must reside first. Notice in Heb 9:14 that it is by the Holy Spirit, not ourselves, that our minds become purged from a desire for dead works. If He is purging us from dead works, then He CANNOT be purging us to dead works.


[Heb 6:1 KJV]
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[Heb 9:14 KJV]
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Yes indeed. God is kind to lead us, to show us His grace, so that we may repent.
Paul just got through telling us in Romans 1:19-20 that God HAS ALWAYS REVEALED Himself to mankind, so that we will be without excuse when we stand before Him.

No. It is stating that He brings unto repentance.

I'm not getting into the above AGAIN.
Gal 5:22 in any other bible version other than the KJV states that it is faithfulness...
but that doesn't suit you or you'd get a modern bible that correctly translates the one you're using that is 500 years old and incorrectly translated in many verses.

But, yes, keep using the bible that suits you the best.

You reject it because it doesn't fit what you'd like to believe is true.
It says faith. But... for the sake of argument, were it translated to faithfulness, it wouldn't change anything because in the context used, it would mean a faithfulness to Christ given by the Holy Spirit (but only to those born again and to no one else, without which, no one can be faithful to Him). So, it is by God, not by man.
And just because you insist something is true, doesn't make it so. In fact, based upon your track record so far, I would have to say just the opposite is true. You should be careful in making yourself judge and jury.

From the Internet:

"What is the Greek root word for faith?
In Greek, the root word from which we get 'faith, the noun is PISTIS, and 'believe', the verb is PISTUEO. FAITH means- belief, firm persuasion, assurance, firm conviction, faithfulness."
"

Definition

conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it relating to God the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ relating to Christ a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God the religious beliefs of Christians belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same fidelity, faithfulness the character of one who can be relied on"

[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus[G2424] answered[G611] and[G2532] said[G2036] unto them,[G846] This[G5124] is[G2076] the work[G2041] of God,[G2316] that[G2443] ye believe[G4100] on[G1519] him[G3739] whom[G1565] he hath sent.[G649]

Internet:
"What is the Greek word for believing?
pisteuo

The New Testament Greek word pisteuo (believe) means to “be convinced of something” or “give credence to.” We must be convinced that it is an historical fact that more than 2,000 years ago Jesus Christ died on a cross and rose the third day.Jun 17, 2016"

the above only can come about it someone by/from the Holy Spirit, not of themselves.

 

[Robert Pate]

Your post 553 did not answer the question at all. The question is how did the flood destroying the world of young godly demonstrate that God desires to save all people ever born go ahead and answer that now

The people that were destroyed in the flood were evil. Their thoughts were continuously evil, Genesis, 6:5.

 

[rogerg]

John 6:28-29 is not teaching salvation by works (what we do) it is teaching that we are saved by the work of God, which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ and concerns Christ work.

We were discussing faith which is what John 6:28-29 is addressing. wondering wanted me to
provide her a verse that says that faith is a work, that was the purpose of those verses.

 

[Robert Pate]

We were discussing faith which is what John 6:28-29 is addressing. wondering wanted me to
provide her a verse that says that faith is a work, that was the purpose of those verses

The Bible does not teach that faith is a work.

Saving faith comes by hearing and believing the Gospel, Romans 10:17.

 

[rogerg]

The Bible does not teach that faith is a work.

It teaches exactly that - that not only is it a work, but that to believe is solely the work of God.

[Jhn 6:28-29 KJV]
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Saving faith comes by hearing and believing the Gospel, Romans 10:17.

That hearing is spiritual hearing, not human hearing. It comes only by first becoming born again.

[Jhn 8:43, 47 KJV]
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. ...
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.

 

[Robert Pate]

It teaches exactly that - that not only is it a work, but that to believe is solely the work of God.

[Jhn 6:28-29 KJV]
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.


That hearing is spiritual hearing, not human hearing. It comes only by first becoming born again.

[Jhn 8:43, 47 KJV]
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. ...
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.

Hogwash!

In John 8:43 Jesus was speaking to the lost Pharisees. They were a bunch of religious reprobates that were spiritually dead. Reprobates cannot hear spiritual things.

You refuse to acknowledge the fact that 8,000 Jews were saved on the day of Pentecost because they heard and believed Peters Gospel, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4.

"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel" Romans 10:17.

 

[rogerg]

Hogwash!

In John 8:43 Jesus was speaking to the lost Pharisees. They were a bunch of religious reprobates that were spiritually dead. Reprobates cannot hear spiritual things.

You refuse to acknowledge the fact that 8,000 Jews were saved on the day of Pentecost because they heard and believed Peters Gospel, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4.

I'm not in the mood to argue this with you so believe what you want. The verses I posted make no distinction -
someone is either of God and can hear or they're not and they can't - simple as that. No one
can hear until God gives them that hearing.
BTW which verse exactly to you find the number 8,000 in so I can read it?

 

[Iconoclast]

The people that were destroyed in the flood were evil. Their thoughts were continuously evil, Genesis, 6:5.

There will only evil continually. No where do you see that God wanted to save them all How did the flood work to save the world of the ungodly

 

[Robert Pate]

I'm not in the mood to argue this with you so believe what you want. The verses I posted make no distinction -
someone is either of God and can hear or they're not and they can't - simple as that. No one
can hear until God gives them that hearing.
BTW which verse exactly to you find the number 8,000 in so I can read it?

I was not of God for many, many years. A God damming, smoking and drinking whore lusting lost sinner. Until I heard that Jesus shed his blood for me. Like a ton of bricks, the Holy Spirit fell on me and convicted me of my need for Christ. That was over 50 years ago. I have not been the same since.

Acts 2:41, 3,000 were saved. Acts 4:4, the next day 5,000 were saved.

 

[Robert Pate]

There will only evil continually. No where do you see that God wanted to save them all How did the flood work to save the world of the ungodly

The flood like Sodom and Gomora was not intended to save anyone. They had crossed over the line of no hope, so God destroyed them. They were spiritually dead, Reprobate.

 

[GodsGrace]

1 - 4, occur as a result of salvation, not cause. The "saved" statement of 16:31, refers to salvation of the last day -
it is the physical realization and culmination of salvation - the receiving of the resurrected, rejuvenated body, and
an escape from God's wrath which will be dispensed at that time. It does not refer to positional (so to speak)
salvation that must occur to the elect during their lifetime, whereby God places them under the law of the Spirit
of life in Christ Jesus.

This is the problem with the reformed faith...
You believe you have to get saved first in order to get saved.

And, we were discussing how works do not save us.
You seem to believe that faith and belief are works.
Then you say that faith and belief is a gift.
Make up your mind.
Let's agree that faith is a gift from God...And we agree that belief is a gift from God...It's HOW we get those gifts we disagree on.You believe God irresistibly gives us grace to believe and have faith.You believe God's grace is NOT resistible.Am I right?I believe God's grace can be resisted.God gives to us enough ENOUGH grace to be able to hear Him...It's like Jesus knocking on the door in Rev 3:20...But God will not force open the door.He wants us to accept Him freely and love Him freely.Titus 2:11-12 11For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, God's grace is for all people...it is fully revealed in Christ.It instructs us to Godly living.It instructs BECAUSE IT IS PRESCRIPTIVE, not desscriptive.Ditto for John 3:16Ditto for my list of 1-4 From post 548

There are requirements to being saved.
Here they are AGAIN:

1. Believe in the name of Jesus and you will be saved. Acts 16:31
2. Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Romans 10:13
3. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Acts 2:21
4. Not everyone who calls Lord will be saved, but those who do the will of My Father. Matthew 7:21
5. Through faith we will be saved by grace. Ephesians 2:8



THE ABOVE ARE PRESCRIPTIVE.
It's plain and simple English.

I'll try to look over your post tomorrow and reply where appropriate.

 

[Iconoclast]

The flood like Sodom and Gomora was not intended to save anyone. They had crossed over the line of no hope, so God destroyed them. They were spiritually dead, Reprobate.

That is exactly correct.

 

[GodsGrace]

You are confusing Gods omniscience,with biblical foreknowledge.
God knows everything.

Foreknowledge is of the persons, whom He did foreknow.

Yes, you're correct.
Romans 8:28 is stating who will be saved.
God foreknew who would be saved by HIS FOREKNOWLEDGE.
BUT , this does not mean He predestined them to be saved.
It means He only KNEW beforehand who would be saved.

And what was predestined in those verses is that persons are called ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSE.
We are chosen for purpose....some for teaching, some for service, etc. He gives to each a measure of faith. Romans 12:3

Another thing that is predestined there is that we were chosen IN CHRIST. God knew His people in advance and He meant for us to be IN JESUS.
And to be holy and blameless before God.

Your strange version only distorts what the text says.
It says whom and them.

And how.
Agreed.