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God's Great Free Gift of Salvation for Everyone

Free said:
It seems that some in this thread do not understand Calvinism and/or are confusing it with hyper-Calvinism. This is resulting in some erroneous statements about what Calvinists believe.

Having said that, those who believe Calvinism, or Reformed theology, need to show more patience and do a better job at teaching and explaining the nuances of what they believe.
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I don't know why you call Calvinism Reformed theology. The reformation led by Martin Luther had nothing to do with Calvinism. Martin Luther did not approve of Calvinism. They didn't even know each other. The only reformed theology was when Martin Luther discovered justification by faith, which is a far cry from Calvinism.
 
Free said:
It seems that some in this thread do not understand Calvinism and/or are confusing it with hyper-Calvinism. This is resulting in some erroneous statements about what Calvinists believe.

Having said that, those who believe Calvinism, or Reformed theology, need to show more patience and do a better job at teaching and explaining the nuances of what they believe.
Click to expand...
Hi Free
I don't wish to restart my conversation with some members here because we seem to not be communicating properly.

It's my understanding that calvinism and hyper calvinism have only attitude as the difference.

Hyper calvinists are more hard hearted persons.
They don't believe in evangelization or in missionary work due to the reasons of God choosing and there not being a general call to election.

However, the topic of evangelization was never really part of the discussion here.

And, from my understanding, all other beliefs remain the same. IOW, God still predetermines all and everything.

I've been learning about calvinism for about 8 years or more.

I'd really like to know if...

1. What I've stated is wrong.
2. Are there some "calvinists" that do not believe in predestination.

Thanks.
 
Robert Pate said:
I don't know why you call Calvinism Reformed theology. The reformation led by Martin Luther had nothing to do with Calvinism. Martin Luther did not approve of Calvinism. They didn't even know each other. The only reformed theology was when Martin Luther discovered justification by faith, which is a far cry from Calvinism.
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It is my understanding that Calvinism is generally considered a sub-set of Reformed theology. That is, all Calvinists are Reformed but not all Reformed are Calvinists. However, not all agree and some respected persons equate the two. I could be wrong though; it has happened once before.
 
Robert Pate said:
I don't know why you call Calvinism Reformed theology. The reformation led by Martin Luther had nothing to do with Calvinism. Martin Luther did not approve of Calvinism. They didn't even know each other. The only reformed theology was when Martin Luther discovered justification by faith, which is a far cry from Calvinism.
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Some reformers did believe in predestination, but not in double predestination, which John Calvin did. So it's really more correct to call those believers Reformed since Calvin did not begin his own religion.

It's become known as Calvinism because he was a major teacher of it and was followed by others and had power in his town of Zurich.

It really means the same.
 
There are many violations of the ToS 1.1 going on in this thread. It is not about Calvinism, Catholicism or Protestantism, but about what each of you believe in giving response to the OP. The attacks need to quit or this thread will be closed and no more replies. If you can not stay on topic you will be banned from this thread.

Need not reply to this post.
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong...
The OP is about how God's salvation is for everyone.
Calvinists believe it is not...
And thus the debate.
I'm hoping Free replies re the predestination factor that is believed by both calvinists and hypercalvinists.
 
wondering said:
Hi Free
I don't wish to restart my conversation with some members here because we seem to not be communicating properly.

It's my understanding that calvinism and hyper calvinism have only attitude as the difference.

Hyper calvinists are more hard hearted persons.
They don't believe in evangelization or in missionary work due to the reasons of God choosing and there not being a general call to election.

However, the topic of evangelization was never really part of the discussion here.

And, from my understanding, all other beliefs remain the same. IOW, God still predetermines all and everything.

I've been learning about calvinism for about 8 years or more.

I'd really like to know if...

1. What I've stated is wrong.
2. Are there some "calvinists" that do not believe in predestination.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
I think the difference between Calvinism and hyper-Calvinism is that the latter take some teachings of Reformed theology to extremes they were never meant to go.

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/reformed-theology-vs-hyper-calvinism

https://www.challies.com/articles/defining-my-terms-calvinist-and-reformed/


"It is also very important to note that the difference between Calvinism and Arminianism is not a salvation issue. Though the two viewpoints stand in contradiction to each other, meaning that one must be right and the other wrong, there are no beliefs in either tradition that would leave people believing the opposite outside of salvation. Christians should not allow the differences between these viewpoints to become divisive in their unity with other true believers. That being said, it is still important for Christians to search for the truth and to discern for themselves, in the light of the Bible, which viewpoint is more Scriptural."

https://www.challies.com/articles/an-introduction-to-calvinism-arminianism/
 
Free said:
I think the difference between Calvinism and hyper-Calvinism is that the latter take some teachings of Reformed theology to extremes they were never meant to go.

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/reformed-theology-vs-hyper-calvinism

https://www.challies.com/articles/defining-my-terms-calvinist-and-reformed/


"It is also very important to note that the difference between Calvinism and Arminianism is not a salvation issue. Though the two viewpoints stand in contradiction to each other, meaning that one must be right and the other wrong, there are no beliefs in either tradition that would leave people believing the opposite outside of salvation. Christians should not allow the differences between these viewpoints to become divisive in their unity with other true believers. That being said, it is still important for Christians to search for the truth and to discern for themselves, in the light of the Bible, which viewpoint is more Scriptural."

https://www.challies.com/articles/an-introduction-to-calvinism-arminianism/
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Thanks Free
I believe all calvinist teachings are extreme.
I go by The Institutes of John Calvin and somewhat by the Westminster Confession of Faith which is the same idea but watered down a bit to make it more acceptable.

God predetermines everything and we have no free will as such. The reason there's the need for God to predetermined everything is because man is born so depraved that he is unable to respond to God. This is the reformed belief.

I find it impossible to discuss in a manner as to produce any understanding of each others view.
So, eventually, I give up.

I am coming to the belief that they are truly teaching a different gospel. I'd like to start a thread but fear it might be problematic.
 
electedbyhim said:
They can only confess that if the Lord has given them the faith to believe.
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Please state the scripture for that as I do not take anyone's word for anything.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Grace means unmerited favor given to us even though we do not deserve it. Grace, in Christian theology, the spontaneous, unmerited gift of the divine favour in the salvation of sinners, and the divine influence operating in individuals for their regeneration and sanctification.

Christ Jesus is our faith in whom we first believed in who is God's plan of salvation before the foundation of the world.

1Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

This is basic salvation.
 
for_his_glory said:
Please state the scripture for that as I do not take anyone's word for anything.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Grace means unmerited favor given to us even though we do not deserve it. Grace, in Christian theology, the spontaneous, unmerited gift of the divine favour in the salvation of sinners, and the divine influence operating in individuals for their regeneration and sanctification.

Christ Jesus is our faith in whom we first believed in who is God's plan of salvation before the foundation of the world.

1Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

This is basic salvation.
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You quoted one of the verses yourself.

Ephesians 2:8

The faith and salvation you have is a gift from God. The faith He gives you, as a gift, enables you to believe His word, that He is God, the Trinity and so on.

Do you think unregenerate man has his own faith to believe any of that?

Grace and peace to you.
 
electedbyhim said:
You quoted one of the verses yourself.

Ephesians 2:8

The faith and salvation you have is a gift from God. The faith He gives you, as a gift, enables you to believe His word, that He is God, the Trinity and so on.

Do you think unregenerate man has his own faith to believe any of that?

Grace and peace to you.
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I agree with that, but In your post 849 you said "They can only confess that if the Lord has given them the faith to believe."

Just so I can understand you better what is that faith that goes along with God's free gift of His grace?
 
for_his_glory said:
I agree with that, but In your post 849 you said "They can only confess that if the Lord has given them the faith to believe."

Just so I can understand you better what is that faith that goes along with God's free gift of His grace?
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Faith in Jesus Christ, in grace and salvation. Ephesians 2:7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

Faith to believe that Jesus Christ is God come in human form, born of a virgin, died for the sins of His people, the resurrection. Faith in the teachings of the Bible that an unregenerate person cannot and will not understand. The things not seen.

I do not think I understand what you are asking.
 
electedbyhim said:
Faith in Jesus Christ, in grace and salvation. Ephesians 2:7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

Faith to believe that Jesus Christ is God come in human form, born of a virgin, died for the sins of His people, the resurrection. Faith in the teachings of the Bible that an unregenerate person cannot and will not understand. The things not seen.

I do not think I understand what you are asking.
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I can agree with that, but I guess my question wasn't exactly clear so my question is how does God give us faith.
 
for_his_glory said:
I can agree with that, but I guess my question wasn't exactly clear so my question is how does God give us faith.
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That would be a supernatural gift from Him I would think. A gift is something that is given to you, something that you do not possess already. I only know what the Bible says.

Jesus is the author and perfector of our faith Hebrews 12:2 says.

It has been granted to us to believe in Him. Philippians 1:29.

Acts 3:16 “And on the basis of faith in His name, it is the name of Jesus which has strengthened this man whom you see and know; and the faith which is through Him has given him this perfect health in the presence of you all.

I am not certain I answered your question and to be honest I never really thought about how He gives us that faith.

I always took it on faith.

Grace and peace to you.
 
wondering said:
Some reformers did believe in predestination, but not in double predestination, which John Calvin did. So it's really more correct to call those believers Reformed since Calvin did not begin his own religion.

It's become known as Calvinism because he was a major teacher of it and was followed by others and had power in his town of Zurich.

It really means the same.
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Calvinism is a departure of the faith that was delivered to us by the apostles.
 
Robert Pate said:
Calvinism is a departure of the faith that was delivered to us by the apostles.
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Agreed.
None of the early church theologians believed anything of what calvinism teaches.
The disturbing part is that it seems that even the reformed don't know what calvinism is.
The wording is just so that a newcomer to the idea would hardly notice the difference.
This is very dishonest.
 
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