It sure did, and compelled me to finally turn from sin permanently !
Thanks be to God !
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
God's Great Free Gift of Salvation for Everyone
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Thanks be to God !
Not pertinent to the discussion.
Please start another thread if you want to discuss a tangential issue.
God doesn't force people to turn from sin/darkness.
It has to be voluntary.
Not really pertinent to this discussion.
Start another thread, please.
I was discussing a point with another poster, and that was my remark in that context.
We crossed wires Gordon.
We weren't discussing the Kingdom and the Keys.
We were discussing what John 20:20-21 could mean IF not that man could still sin after salvation and be forgiven.
Someone was saying we could not sin anymore - I'm not sure if it was you.
Then we posted about the difference between loosing and binding and the forgiving of sins.
I said that loosing and binding.
I said that binding is something not permitted,
and loosing is something that is permitted.
I think that was my main point and wondered if you agree.
It was my answer to another poster.
I am in the middle of a conversation with him that does not include your kindly added addendums.
How many times must Jesus pour out His sanctifying blood before entire sanctification actually happens?
The answer should be...ONCE.
If sanctification is ongoing/gradual, why is justification not also gradual/ongoing?
Yes.
Plus the fact he was actually partaking in the death and burial of Christ which we do in water baptism. (Rom 6:3-7)
About ten minutes from the time I read 1 Peter 3:21 until I walked into the water, for me.
I don't think God would allow that to happen.
He provided water in the desert for the Ethiopian eunuch.
No comment, as I was an escapee from that "church".
Last edited:
Agreed.
I don't agree, as the entire descendant of Adam, my old self, was crucified with Christ.
None of it survives.
I am a new creature now, reborn of God's seed.
He is only alive in those who refuse to turn from sin permanently and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their past sins.
As for Paul's Rom. 7:24 lament?
It was answered in Rom 6:6-7..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin."
And Rom. 7:23's lament?
Answered in Rom. 8:2..."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."
His laments were of a past time before his conversion and rebirth from God's seed.
Last edited:
Justification is an immediate act of God.
He declares a person not guilty.
It's a judicial act.
Sanctification - being set aside for the work of God - will be going on throughout our lifetime.
This is why OSAS cannot be correct.
If we stop working for God, and return to working for the evil one in our day to day lives, then we will no longer be sanctified (working for God) and due to this our justification will also cease to be. One depends on the other.
One saved person could desire to stop being an alcoholic and wake up the next morning no longer desiring liquor.
Another saved person could have the same desire but it'll take weeks or months until he is able to stop.
God gives to each a measure of faith - the ability to do what God wants that person to do.
Romans 12:3
As to complete sanctification, that would be glorification and will not happen till after death.
Complete sanctification means you are PERFECT.
Like God is perfect.
This is impossible.
We're not God.
Very interesting.
Thanks!
10 minutes from salvation or 10 minutes from when you understood what baptism means?
You don't think anyone is going through their learning process and then they just get sick and die, or just die?
As to the CC...They have a lot of good teaching.
No more fire and brimstone like in the old days.
The forums don't have to be a battle ground you know, but good luck with your ambition of turning permanently from sin, although you did say in an earlier post that you never sin.
.
Last edited:
Robert Pate
Member
It appears that you believe in Christian perfectionism, Paul taught no such thing. We are sinners saved by grace (God's goodness) Spiritually, we are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. Physically, we are still here on this earth in our unredeemed Adamic bodies, Romans 8:23.
How does it happen?
It is written..."Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. (Rom 5:9)
And..."And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Cor 6:11)
Where is it that we are washed in the name of Jesus and His blood is applied to us?
Water baptism.
You should look at the other words defining "sanctification".
Atoned for, set aside, consecrated, made holy.
All these things happen at the application of the Lord's sanctifying blood.
Did you notice that both sanctification and justification occur in 1 Cor 6:11?
Neither is gradual or ongoing.
Agreed, but that also shows one can't be instant and the other a long, drawn out, gradual occurrence.
"One depends on the other".
God doesn't want anyone to be an alcoholic, so both will know alcohol can no longer dictate their life.
It will be too late by then.
Where do you see sanctification equated with glorification...or with death?
Jesus commanded we be as perfect as His Father in Matt 5:48.
Jesus doesn't command the impossible.
The converted are in God as Jesus was in God.
Wasn't Jesus sanctified while He walked on earth?
Of course He was.
It is clearly written on in Romans 6.
10 minutes from when I read/heard I could have a clean conscience towards God by water baptism. (1 Peter 3:21)
Salvation will have to wait until the day of judgement.
I will not usurp God's judgement on the matter.
No.
It would not fit the pattern of God's mercy.
No comment.
It isn't an ambition, as it has already been gracefully granted.
Jesus commanded it. (Matt 5:48)
Jesus said more on it. (John 8:32-34)
The apostles described how to do it. (Acts 2:38), and dozens more places.
Men serve their master.
You may be unaware of 1 Cor 15:31..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame."
Also...""Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:" (Col 1:28)
"Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let everyone that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 2:19)
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Tim 3:16-17)
"But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." (Heb 10:39)
I have any more scriptures concerning obedience to God.
Not those who have crucified the flesh with the vile affections and lusts. (Gal 5:34)
Their Adamic bodies no longer exist.
We are reborn of God's seed, and that cannot bear devilish fruit.
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (Mat 5:48 KJV)
Let me know when you are perfect like God in heaven. (Hint, we never shall be.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. (Joh 8:32-34 KJV)
The self-righteous Jews who you quote pretended to be very religious, but the truth of the matter was that these dishonest, irreverent, people who took to misquoting scripture were soon to be murderers—for even now they were plotting the death of the Son of God. Jesus told them they were not sons, but the servent of sin and in the verse you omitted, verse 35, Jesus said to them that like slaves they could be put out of the house at any time. They did not belong there. “And the servant abideth not in the house for ever.”
Fancy quoting evil wicked people to support your corrupt religion.
.
Last edited:
God doesn't want anyone to forget the preaching of the Kingdom of Heaven, it is what gives belief in Jesus Christ, because they are of the same righteousness of HIs, to lay HIs life down for all.
Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Luke 14:7 And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them.
8 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
9 And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.
10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Matthew 13:32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.
Luke 9:48 And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.
Matthew 19:30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.
Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
To awake to righteousness, to sin not, is not just not committing sin, it is as it says, righteousness.
You cant awake to something and still be asleep to it.
What is righteousness to you ?
If you read below, you see that Jesus Christ came to fulfil all righteousness.
Notice after this, that the devils only interest is to be the enemy of the same, all righteousness, by perverting those right ways of the Lord.
Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Acts 13:10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
You are omitting the important part again, by saying we are born again of God, and that we cant bear devils fruit.
The important part you are not including, is how that is fulfilled.
It is through the word of God, believing in the Gospel, and in an honest good heart, keeping the word. See that was not difficult, was it, just two verses can make such as difference, to one on its own.
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Luke 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Perfect was to send rain on the just and the unjust.
Perfect is to love our enemies, and do good to them. Then we would be the children of God.
Luke 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
1 Peter 2: 19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.
20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
The Son abides ( lives) for ever.
Jesus first said to the Jews He is from above. ( where the Son abides for ever.) and the Jews were from beneath. ( where nobody abides for ever.)
Jesus tells the Jews, they will die in those sins, if they continue to not believe that He, is He. ( is life, is God.)
The Jews did not land died in their sins.
But to the Apostles, Jesus shows them how He has to leave ( this world where all die) to go and prepare a place for them, to receive them to where He is. ( He does this by leaving then returning to them again, in them, in Spirit.)
John 8:22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Robert Pate
Member
You said, "Their Adamic bodies no longer exist" I really wish that you were right. You are right spiritually, but not physically. Yes, we have been crucified with Christ, but wait, I am still here in this physical body talking to you on the computer. This unredeemed physical body is prone to sin. This is why Paul said, "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do" Romans 7:19. Sounds to me like Paul is struggling with his sin problem. Doesn't sound to me like Paul's Adamic nature no longer exist.