God's Great Free Gift of Salvation for Everyone

[Cooper]

Find a NT example.
The folks of the OT didn't have the ability to crucify the flesh with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
They had to walk in the flesh, whereas we can now walk in the Spirit.
Thanks be to God !

Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant and cut off his right ear. (The servant's name was Malchus.) (Joh 18:10 ESV)

Not everything is recorded, neither do I think the writers of the New Testament would parade their own short comings.
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[Robert Pate]

Speaking of redemption. Christ gave Himself for us, to redeem us FROM ALL INIQUITY.

Purifying to Himself a people, zealous of good works. ( not iniquity, which they are redeemed from.)

As we know we were not redeemed with corruptible things, but with the precious blood of Christ without spot. ( by believing that God raised Him up from the dead.)

Seeing we purified our souls in obeying the truth ( not lies of hurting others and being self seeking either) through sincere love of the brothers ( as Christ to lay HIs life down for us.) with a pure heart, to be found of Him blameless and without spot....




Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

All good and true, but you are still going to have to deal with your old unredeemed Adamic body that you were born with. "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would" Galatians 5:17.

 

[Hopeful]

Starting on baptism will change the thread too much.
Do you see a difference between justification and sanctification?

Yes, but both occur at the same time, by the blood of Christ being applied to us.
I was hoping you would comment on the thief's disposition, repentant but not water baptized...and promised paradise.

 

[Hopeful]

Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant and cut off his right ear. (The servant's name was Malchus.) (Joh 18:10 ESV)

Still OT, as Jesus had yet to shed the blood of a new covenant.
And, Peter had not yet received the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Not everything is recorded, neither do I think the writers of the New Testament would parade their own short comings.

I think everything pertinent to NT life is recorded.
Plenty of "short comings" were reported in the gospels.
You just mentioned Peter's failure to keep the faith.

 

[Hopeful]

All good and true, but you are still going to have to deal with your old unredeemed Adamic body that you were born with. "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would" Galatians 5:17.

Does your body cause you to commit sin?
If it does, Jesus offered a cure...cut off the troublesome limbs !
Or, in the NT we kill the entire old man of sin at "immersion" into Christ's death. (Rom 6:3-7)
Paul writes...And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
It is true !

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Robert Pate, I am curious. You consider yourself free from all law right? What do you think you are free to do that those who consider, say the ten commandments, as obligatory cannot do? Let’s get down to brass tacks.

 

[Cooper]

It sure is.

But you are in Christ?
It is written that there is no sin in Christ, (1John 1:5), so if you have sin in you, you are not in Christ.

Agreed.
We all choose whom we will serve.

Shouldn't you be asking who you serve?
You should be just like your master.
It is written..."He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:6)
Jesus said whoever commits sin is the servant of sin. (John 8:34)
The truth can make you free. (John 8:32)

The believer is "Born again of the Spirit" not of the flesh.
Substantiate your claim that if you sin you are not in Christ.

1Jn 1:5-10 KJV
(5-6) This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

(7-8) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

(9-10) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
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[Cooper]

.
I wonder if the last line of the last verse will hit home.
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[gordon777]

I think the thief on the cross is proof of that.

The thief on the cross was taken down from the cross, and his legs broken, but not for Christ, who was dead already.


The point if you don't get it is, the thief had paradise in him that day, ( the Kingdom of God) to believe and do good form the heart through Christ.



Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

John 19:32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.

John 19:33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:

 

[gordon777]

I truly feel that the gift of the Holy Ghost is in return for a true turn from sin, not for the baptism.
As repentance from sin and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins are both done at or near the same time, it doesn't really matter.
Another thing happening at baptism is the cleansing of the "temple" before the residency of the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Spirit is the turning from sin. By the power of God they are turned from darkness ( sin of unbelief) to light( righteousness and belief in Christ) to receive forgiveness of sins...



Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

 

[gordon777]

It is His blood that sanctifies and justifies us.
That blood is applied when we are "immersed" into Christ (and into His death and burial)...at water baptism.

Firstly we have to drink the blood of Christ. We do that by having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience ( of unbelief) and that also is our bodies washed with pure water.

Hearing and believing in the blood of Christ ( sprinkled for us) which speaks better than Able. ( HIs blood of life eternal, the blood of the new covenant.)

Obedience ( as Christ humbled Himself to the death of the cross) sanctification of the spirit and sprinkling of blood.



John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

 

[gordon777]

Find a NT example.
The folks of the OT didn't have the ability to crucify the flesh with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
They had to walk in the flesh, whereas we can now walk in the Spirit.
Thanks be to God !

A funny teacher of Christ, to ignore the verses he quotes ?

Why not talk about what you are quoting ?

Lusts, idolatry ( idolatry is COVETOUSNESS. Colossians 3:5.)

Wrath ( being a non hearer, being instead quick to speak James 1:19-20. )

Strife, heresies ( debates and perverse disputes of men. 1 Timothy 6:5.)

All who do that WILL NOT INHERI THE KINGDOM OF GOD.


Also, the fruit of the Spirit is love. ( not lover of your own self. 2 Timothy 3:2.) charity/love, seeks not her own. ( 1 Corinthians 13:5.

Longsuffering, laying our life down, not seeking to keep it. ( Matthew 10:39.) goodness and meekness ( humility, lowliness.)

Because to be in Christ is to crucify all of that. ( sin is self love, and loving your self and loving your life, unlike Christ who did not show this.)...




Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

John 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

 

[gordon777]

The believer is "Born again of the Spirit" not of the flesh.
Substantiate your claim that if you sin you are not in Christ.

1Jn 1:5-10 KJV
(5-6) This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

(7-8) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

(9-10) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
.

That is the message declared, to be in the light, no longer in darkness.

Why would be put darkness for light.

Our sins are because nobody lays their life down, as Christ, our sins are not loving our neighbour as ourselves.



Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!


Mark 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

 

[gordon777]

Is binding different than forgiving sins?

John 20:20-23
20As he spoke, he showed them the wounds in his hands and his side. They were filled with joy when they saw the Lord!
21Again he said, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I am sending you.”
22Then he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
23If you forgive anyone’s sins, they are forgiven. If you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Jesus had the power to forgive sins.
In John 20 He is passing this authority on to the Apostles...
"As the Father has sent Me, so I am sending you",
verse 23 is clear that Jesus is speaking of forgiving sins.

I believe Matthew 16:19 is speaking of something totally different.
"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

To bind means to forbid (by a church authority, like the Pharisees).
To loose means to permit.

Matthew 16, is the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. ( the key is the Holy Ghost.)

Jesus shows He has the keys of hell and death. ( through destroying him who had the power of death, the devil, by taking part in death, then He has the keys of death, to deliver us from death by the key of life, the Holy Ghost.)

The Apostles preach the Kingdom of Heaven, which is Christ dying to forgive our sins.




Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

 

[gordon777]

All good and true, but you are still going to have to deal with your old unredeemed Adamic body that you were born with. "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would" Galatians 5:17.

Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Colossians 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

 

[gordon777]

Does your body cause you to commit sin?
If it does, Jesus offered a cure...cut off the troublesome limbs !

You miss always the critical part.

We cut off also these, wrath, blasphemy, lies, because we put on the new man, renewed in knowledge after the image of Christ.

Mercies, kindness, humbleness, longsuffering, and charity above all ( charity seeks not her own.)

Hopeful, did you know that charity is not the same as being a lover of our own selves, and that coveting is not the same as Christ did..




Colossians 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:



Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

2 Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

 

[Cooper]

That is the message declared, to be in the light, no longer in darkness.

Why would be put darkness for light.

Our sins are because nobody lays their life down, as Christ, our sins are not loving our neighbour as ourselves.



Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!


Mark 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

.
Your response has no bearing on 1 John 1:5-10.
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[GodsGrace]

Yes, but both occur at the same time, by the blood of Christ being applied to us.
I was hoping you would comment on the thief's disposition, repentant but not water baptized...and promised paradise.

I agree that both Justification and Sanctification occur at the same time.
Although, I do believe that sanctification is an on-going process that lasts our entire life.

As to the disposition of the thief on the cross...
I think I'm more flexible on this than you are - not sure.
He was definitely saved even though he was not baptized.
I did bring this up.
A person could decide to become Christian.
Before being baptized, the person would normally go some kind of learning period before
he could be baptized. At the very least, he should understand what baptism is.

IF a person should happen to pass away ITMT, of course God's mercy would cause that person to still be saved, even though he has not been.

The CC teaches (and I like this) that there is the Baptism of Desire.
The desire that a person has to be baptized, can count for actual baptism.
Some of their teachings are very clear and good.

 

[Robert Pate]

Does your body cause you to commit sin?
If it does, Jesus offered a cure...cut off the troublesome limbs !
Or, in the NT we kill the entire old man of sin at "immersion" into Christ's death. (Rom 6:3-7)
Paul writes...And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
It is true !

Spiritually, we have been crucified with Christ. The old Adam was put to death, Romans 6:6.

Physically, we are "The chief of sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15.

The old Adam is alive and well, subdued, but not inhilated. I know this is true because I wrestle with him every day. Paul also fought with him, Romans 7:8-11.

 

[Hopeful]

The believer is "Born again of the Spirit" not of the flesh.

"Of the Spirit" doesn't mean your entirety wasn't reborn.
2 Cor 5:17..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
"All things are become new".

Substantiate your claim that if you sin you are not in Christ.

Gladly...
May we use "God" and "Jesus" interchangeably?
It is written..."This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." (1 John 1:5) Pro 4:19 says "the way of the wicked is darkness", so their way is sinful...right?
Darkness is sin.
There is no sin in God, or in His Son who would not have been raised from the dead had He ever committed a sin.
Right?
Jesus said..."Which of you convinceth me of sin?" in John 8:46.
Paul wrote..."For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." (2 Cor 5:21)
Do we agree that Jesus never committed a sin?
OK, let's proceed to our being in the perfectly sinless Jesus...
It is written..."And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." (John 17:22-23)
He is us and we in Him.
Right?
How?
It is written..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin."
We are baptized into the perfectly sinless Jesus Christ, and "freed from sin".
We are one !
Just as Jesus commanded in Matt 5:48..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
Our water baptism happens after repentance from sin. (Acts 2:38)
Repenting of sins makes us, by definition, non-sinners.
If we have turned from sin, how can we possibly still commit sin?
We turned from it !
So we have perfectly washed ex-sinners in Christ !
Will the unrepentant be in here?
NO
Will they who refuse baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins be in here?
NO
Will murderers, liars, thieves, or adulterers be in here?
NO
The only ones in here, in Christ, are those who have obediently adhered to Peter's Acts 2:38 exhortation..."Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
The Holy Ghost will not reside in a corrupt temple.

1Jn 1:5-10 KJV
(5-6) This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

(7-8) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

(9-10) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Did you notice the pattern?
John alternated verses addressing those who walk in darkness (sin) with verses addressing those who walk in light (God).
Verses 5, 7, and 9, address those walking in God, while verse 6, 8, and 10, address those walking in sin.
Sinners, those walking in darkness, cannot say they have no sin.
But those in verse 7, who have confessed their sins (v9), and had all their sins washed away by the blood of Christ can say they have no sins.
If they couldn't, it would be because the blood of Christ couldn't actually wash it away.
It can, and did for me and for everyone else now walking in the light...which is God, in whom is no darkness !

We are in Christ...if we walk in the light...in which is no sin.