Ryan
Member
- Oct 20, 2012
- 954
- 7
Happily and sorry. Feel free to clean up and delete with my blessings. Got sucked into another argument I shouldn't have got into. Sorry again.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
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Happy Sabbath
- Thread starter WalterandDebbie
- Start date
- Jun 21, 2009
- 10,783
- 414
It is General Talk and we do have some leeway. If I had to moderate myself many of my posts would be tossed.
May I compliment you guys on a willing Spirit? Makes it nice not just for me but for all of us. We together ask for the Lord to Psalm 133 us. I like using that as a verb! It's a "break the rules with freedom" kind-of-thing. (*wink*) ;)
As a Moderator I am allowed to cut select posts from one thread into another and even locate them in another area too. Not that I want to, but if you'd like, am happy to serve. I don't want to squash a good conversation. Just let me know, please. Or we can leave them here too and continue to talk it out some more. It's just the heavy debate style that doesn't quite suit, that's all.
May I compliment you guys on a willing Spirit? Makes it nice not just for me but for all of us. We together ask for the Lord to Psalm 133 us. I like using that as a verb! It's a "break the rules with freedom" kind-of-thing. (*wink*) ;)
As a Moderator I am allowed to cut select posts from one thread into another and even locate them in another area too. Not that I want to, but if you'd like, am happy to serve. I don't want to squash a good conversation. Just let me know, please. Or we can leave them here too and continue to talk it out some more. It's just the heavy debate style that doesn't quite suit, that's all.
Ryan
Member
- Oct 20, 2012
- 954
- 7
Murder, adultery, divorce, obligation to keep a vow, vengeful behaviour, all could not be in the Torah. Right? Jesus was a rabbi and there was a term called halachtic rulings. They were rulings on points of law within Torah. He begins with the expression, "You have heard it said." This He does to draw his audience's attention to a specific point, as well as to make a distinction between His opinion on a matter of Torah and any other(s) of His time. He is offering His authoritative interpretations on how to follow the commandments. He was not adding, or taking away anything.
You ask to show you the commandment for each point. Well, here goes:
Leviticus 19:18
You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the Lord.
Matthew 22:37-40
<SUP class=versenum>37 </SUP>And He said to him, “‘<SUP class=crossreference value='(A)'></SUP>You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ <SUP class=versenum>38 </SUP>This is the great and foremost commandment. <SUP class=versenum>39 </SUP>The second is like it, ‘<SUP class=crossreference value='(B)'></SUP>You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ <SUP class=versenum>40 </SUP><SUP class=crossreference value='(C)'></SUP>On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”
I think Leviticus 19:18 covers it all now doesn't it? Amen and Amen
God bless, I was getting a little hot there. Sorry
- Jun 21, 2009
- 10,783
- 414
There is a device and a technique that will almost guarantee that the thread and conversation remains in General. (Which would be what I'd like to see).
It's simple. Before replying just restate what was heard. Give it an honest try to rephrase what the 'opponent' has said and then, after agreement that the gist of the meaning is heard, reply to what was rightly heard.
That simple exercise keeps the tone in line with "General Talk" and puts a smile on this Moderator's face. No, not a rule, and even if it was done silently and not formally the tone would change. Now I'm really going off topic but I've heard that telemarketers are told to keep a mirror next to their phone and desk so that they can remind themselves to smile while speaking. That tone comes through and goes a long way in closing the distance between apparent oppositions.
Okay, enuf from me.
It's simple. Before replying just restate what was heard. Give it an honest try to rephrase what the 'opponent' has said and then, after agreement that the gist of the meaning is heard, reply to what was rightly heard.
That simple exercise keeps the tone in line with "General Talk" and puts a smile on this Moderator's face. No, not a rule, and even if it was done silently and not formally the tone would change. Now I'm really going off topic but I've heard that telemarketers are told to keep a mirror next to their phone and desk so that they can remind themselves to smile while speaking. That tone comes through and goes a long way in closing the distance between apparent oppositions.
Okay, enuf from me.
G
George Muller
Guest
Well is it not true? And of course all scripture is used to interpret other scripture. Are you guys not always throwing up quotes from Revelations? Are they not true and do they have no meaing because they were written after another? No in fact the later a scripture is written, gives it more value, not less.
- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,952
- 8,159
His law is what He taught in Matthew 5:19-48.
Unless you can show from Moses Law where it says -
Jesus taught Kingdom Law, His Law, which is a much higher Law and meant for those who have a nature like His.
Jesus said it this way -
The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. Luke 16:16
and again -
But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"
Jesus words carry the highest expression of Kingdom Law, for He is a Priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
Please show from Moses Law where a priest after the order of Melchizedek is to be obeyed over Moses or Aaron.
Isaiah's word's are from God, who determined that The Law was obsolete when these words were spoken out of the mouth of Jeremiah, -
"Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah--
as Isaiah states -
"I, the Lord, have called You in righteousness, And will hold Your hand; I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the Gentiles, Isaiah 42:6
... And the coastlands shall wait for His law." This was stated while the Law of Moses was still in effect.
His Law, as we can see from Matthew 5:19-46 is meant for those who have a nature like His, and are able to hear what the Spirit is saying, unlike those who were under the Law.
Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
For we are king ans priests, after the order of Melchizedek, who come to Him by a new and living way.
JLB
Unless you can show from Moses Law where it says -
- But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.
- But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
- But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.
- But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.
- But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.
- But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Jesus taught Kingdom Law, His Law, which is a much higher Law and meant for those who have a nature like His.
Jesus said it this way -
The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. Luke 16:16
and again -
But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"
Jesus words carry the highest expression of Kingdom Law, for He is a Priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
Please show from Moses Law where a priest after the order of Melchizedek is to be obeyed over Moses or Aaron.
Isaiah's word's are from God, who determined that The Law was obsolete when these words were spoken out of the mouth of Jeremiah, -
"Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah--
as Isaiah states -
"I, the Lord, have called You in righteousness, And will hold Your hand; I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the Gentiles, Isaiah 42:6
... And the coastlands shall wait for His law." This was stated while the Law of Moses was still in effect.
His Law, as we can see from Matthew 5:19-46 is meant for those who have a nature like His, and are able to hear what the Spirit is saying, unlike those who were under the Law.
Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
For we are king ans priests, after the order of Melchizedek, who come to Him by a new and living way.
JLB
Ryan
Member
- Oct 20, 2012
- 954
- 7
Brother JLB,
You know God's Word says seek and you shall find, ask and you shall receive. Well, I wasn't overly fond of spending well over a day to bring forth all the Torah teachings Jesus taught on the Mount. Probably more so the time I would spend wouldn't be appreciated or received with thanksgiving. So the Lord is good, when I opened up my phone today this appeared on a rundown of the Sermon from a Torah perspective. http://www.bibletruth.cc/SermonOnMount.htm and yet another one http://www.saltshakers.com/gospels/gosp4.htm#s57 The Lord always provides. So open up your mind and heart, and in the Words of King David Psalm 119:18 Open my eyes, that I may behold Wonderful things from Your Torah.
As this thread was about Happy Sabbath, one more remark to George, then I will let this die. T-minus one day before it's time to say Shabbat Shalom again.
Ryan
Member
- Oct 20, 2012
- 954
- 7
So many threads here about the end times, yet nobody wants to take the time to study the beginning.
Matthew 24:37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
Luke 17:26 And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, ‘My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure’;
So if we want to know what is going to happen at the end, should we not be studying what has happened at the beginning? God is giving us a ginormous hint here, but very few people discuss this.
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness
I take that at face value, and when this letter was penned, there was no such thing as what is called the Gospels and New Testament. Don't know whether he knew this would be later canonized, so the scriptures he was talking about here was referencing the OT, but of which includes the NT. Later scripture has to agree with earlier scripture. If it doesn't, that means there is an error in translation, interpretation, or the reader. My momma always taught me to start reading from the front of the book. Don't know about your momma.
As JLB tried to allude to earlier that the New covenant is a different Torah. Look at the root word for those passages concerning the Law in Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8
33 H1285 But this shall be the covenant H3772 that I will make [H8799] H1004 with the house H3478 of Israel H310 ; After H3117 those days H5002 , saith [H8803] H3068 the LORD H5414 , I will put [H8804] H8451 my law H7130 in their inward parts H3789 , and write [H8799] H3820 it in their hearts H430 ; and will be their God H5971 , and they shall be my people.
10 G3754 For G3778 this G1242 is the covenant G3739 that G1303 I will make [G5695] G3624 with the house G2474 of Israel G3326 after G1565 those G2250 days G3004 , saith [G5719] G2962 the Lord G1325 ; I will put [G5723] G3450 my G3551 laws G1519 into G846 their G1271 mind G2532 , and G1924 write [G5692] G846 them G1909 in G846 their G2588 hearts G2532 : and G2071 I will be [G5704] G1519 to G846 them G2316 a God G2532 , and G846 they G2071 shall be [G5704] G1519 to G3427 me G2992 a people:
It was always be the Torah that will be written on our hearts. I don't know how one can get around this? Anyways...blessings.
- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,952
- 8,159
His law is what He taught in Matthew 5:19-48.
Jesus taught Kingdom Law, His Law, which is a much higher Law and meant for those who have a nature like His.
As it is written -
Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law"--to whom we gave no such commandment-- Acts 15:24
JLB
Jesus taught Kingdom Law, His Law, which is a much higher Law and meant for those who have a nature like His.
As it is written -
Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law"--to whom we gave no such commandment-- Acts 15:24
JLB
- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,952
- 8,159
It's not damning Him, it's called turning away from Him to another way.
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
Do you the context in which Paul wrote these words? Look at Acts 15 for a clue.
JLB
jasoncran
Member
- May 17, 2009
- 38,271
- 185
I know the context. he isn't. did he say that you a gentile are under the law? no he says that jesus didn't change the torah for isreal. are you isreali? no, I am a Hebrew.
God forbid that god meets men at where they are at and uses things around them to reveal himself. god forbid we try to do those feasts to get the idea of what they did and why? so I do understand why ryan does it. he has told me somethings that I wont reveal. I understand it fully that is why is said I had that temptation as well but god restrained me. I could easily go into messianic Judaism. its not a sin. they don't force you to come, they don't command gentiles to do the shabat. however, if you go that is what they do. they don't make you do it.they just like to do the feasts as much as possible.
personally I do like channukah at times over Christmas. why? because gelt is optional. I don't have too.i don't need December 25th to be grateful that he was born. I can celebrate the cross daily. I also have no qualms with Passover.i see things in it that do point to the act of redemption at the cross.is being a Hebrew who loves isreal and desiring to live there and do the torah and tsadik a sin?
so you will have to forgive this Hebrew when he has lost his only connection to isreal via his grandparents and wants to understand them. that and the lord lead me to do this.im not going to become a kosher jew but I will do the shabat once. and when I do I will read the parshah, I will light the candle, pray and take the day off. that isn't a sin.
by tsadik I mean. prayer, a fasting, feeding the poor, going to the jails, and converting souls. hmm yeah real satanic .that is what the Hebrew chidren were to do. they were to reach the lost gentile in their day. they failed miserably so Christ came. he didn't rescind the command to the Hebrews but added it to the church and included the gentiles.
God forbid that god meets men at where they are at and uses things around them to reveal himself. god forbid we try to do those feasts to get the idea of what they did and why? so I do understand why ryan does it. he has told me somethings that I wont reveal. I understand it fully that is why is said I had that temptation as well but god restrained me. I could easily go into messianic Judaism. its not a sin. they don't force you to come, they don't command gentiles to do the shabat. however, if you go that is what they do. they don't make you do it.they just like to do the feasts as much as possible.
personally I do like channukah at times over Christmas. why? because gelt is optional. I don't have too.i don't need December 25th to be grateful that he was born. I can celebrate the cross daily. I also have no qualms with Passover.i see things in it that do point to the act of redemption at the cross.is being a Hebrew who loves isreal and desiring to live there and do the torah and tsadik a sin?
so you will have to forgive this Hebrew when he has lost his only connection to isreal via his grandparents and wants to understand them. that and the lord lead me to do this.im not going to become a kosher jew but I will do the shabat once. and when I do I will read the parshah, I will light the candle, pray and take the day off. that isn't a sin.
by tsadik I mean. prayer, a fasting, feeding the poor, going to the jails, and converting souls. hmm yeah real satanic .that is what the Hebrew chidren were to do. they were to reach the lost gentile in their day. they failed miserably so Christ came. he didn't rescind the command to the Hebrews but added it to the church and included the gentiles.
- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,952
- 8,159
- Jun 21, 2009
- 10,783
- 414
Greetings,
Computer programming gives an insight here. There, we see what is called 'Third Generation Programming Languages (3GL). 'Third Generation' just means that the language is based on 2nd Gen but with expanded functionality. For instance, one of the common benefits of 3GL is that it 'ports' easily onto various operating systems. The programmer would not therefore need to pay attention to the platform that he/she were writing the code for as the language itself takes care of that. Of course, the "advanced" or "enhanced" language provides all that the 2nd Generation Language does too.
In much the same manner the Law also known as the "Law of Freedom," encompasses what may be called "The Torah". The Law, also called Torah, is similar to 2nd Gen Language used for programming because it is written with a specific 'operating system' in mind, that of the original children of God through Abraham and those led by Moses.
What we read (both Jew and Gentile alike) in the New Testament is a re-written 'law' that according to the promise of the first is now designed to operate from within (internal) and not a system of rules what need to be enforced exterior of the workings of the Holy Spirit within the New Creation that we are.
So both the function and the use is expanded. That is not to say that the earlier version (given for specific purpose of bringing and transporting to The Christ) is not considered or to be made empty by the new but the power that was in the external force, that of death itself, has been taken away at the cross. Part and parcel with the new is the exchange of the ineffective for the expedient, the exchange of our shame for His righteousness.
:yes All those who come in the Name of the Lord are blessed and well received as brothers in Christ, our Lord. The 'new' no longer makes distinction. There is neither Jew nor Greek (Gentile?) in or between those who are joined into one family, one church, and baptized into the one baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Cordially,
Sparrow
Computer programming gives an insight here. There, we see what is called 'Third Generation Programming Languages (3GL). 'Third Generation' just means that the language is based on 2nd Gen but with expanded functionality. For instance, one of the common benefits of 3GL is that it 'ports' easily onto various operating systems. The programmer would not therefore need to pay attention to the platform that he/she were writing the code for as the language itself takes care of that. Of course, the "advanced" or "enhanced" language provides all that the 2nd Generation Language does too.
In much the same manner the Law also known as the "Law of Freedom," encompasses what may be called "The Torah". The Law, also called Torah, is similar to 2nd Gen Language used for programming because it is written with a specific 'operating system' in mind, that of the original children of God through Abraham and those led by Moses.
What we read (both Jew and Gentile alike) in the New Testament is a re-written 'law' that according to the promise of the first is now designed to operate from within (internal) and not a system of rules what need to be enforced exterior of the workings of the Holy Spirit within the New Creation that we are.
So both the function and the use is expanded. That is not to say that the earlier version (given for specific purpose of bringing and transporting to The Christ) is not considered or to be made empty by the new but the power that was in the external force, that of death itself, has been taken away at the cross. Part and parcel with the new is the exchange of the ineffective for the expedient, the exchange of our shame for His righteousness.
:yes All those who come in the Name of the Lord are blessed and well received as brothers in Christ, our Lord. The 'new' no longer makes distinction. There is neither Jew nor Greek (Gentile?) in or between those who are joined into one family, one church, and baptized into the one baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Cordially,
Sparrow
G
George Muller
Guest
Just kinda wondering if you have scripture to prove this point? Because I can produce a multitude of New Testament scripture that make it very clear the the law of Moses and the written code are what holds a believer in bondage to sin.
James did not call the law of moses, the "law of liberty" he was speaking of the law of the Spirit of life in Christ, that sets us FREE from the law of sin and death.
Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
G
George Muller
Guest
2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Yes lets start at the beginning, as Paul said, just as satan beguilded eve so would some try to preach another gospel other than Pauls gospel.
Ga 1:6 ¶ I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Ga 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
- Jun 21, 2009
- 10,783
- 414
You may have missed my most recent posts about this being General Talk and that we should restrain ourselves from debate to some degree or another. In case you did, it was in Post #99 and thereafter. So, what do you think? The general principle that I speak of there should or should not apply to me? And if to me, would it be acceptable to your view of the LAW or the SPIRIT for me to apply a stricter standard to myself while posting in General Talk and try to avoid debate more so than what I set as a standard for others?
Would it be wrong for me to use my liberty in this fashion?
G
George Muller
Guest
OOps sorry maybe we could discuss the issue later?
I think I should stay in the debate sections, not too good at talking about the Word and not looking to the source to prove that which is being discussed. I think I will drop out of this thread.