Inherint contradictions teaching Faith Alone

[RBDERRICK]

Please explain precisely what you mean by this. Are you actually saying that "God's imputed righteousness is without any works of our own" or are you saying that that is what I am saying?

That is what Rom 4 is saying: God's imputed righteousness is without any works of our own. Works of our own are the problem of man not believing and obeying God. They are our the works of man's own will without God's Spirit and His faith.

They are called dead works, works of darkness, unrighteous works, and works of our own righteousness, that are filthy rags to God. These are the works we must all repent of doing without Christ, that we may do His good works as commanded from the beginning.

Those are the works of our own will that by repentance we become without, when through the faith of Jesus Christ, we are now imputed His righteousness.

If our new righteousness and faith from God remains without any works at all, then our faith becomes dead, being alone without doing any good at all.

God does not dwell in any soul doing no good, by having their faith alone to themselves:

1Jo 3:17But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

Imputed righteoiusness by faith that keeps alone, is a car with new gas put in, that does not drive. The unused gas becomes old and dead.

So it is with being a hearer of the word only, and the seed of faith sown by the wayside.

Some other examples of having faith alone, are the talent buried in the earth, and the lamp hid under a bushel, and the salt losing it's savor.

 

[RBDERRICK]

I hear you. All of the believers work is supposed to be in honor of God and only He and the individual know if it's genuine.

I see your point, since we all must stand before God to give an account of our deeds.

However, we know murderers, theives, and cut throats don't have any faith toward God at all:

1Jo 3:15Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

 

[Free]

That is what Rom 4 is saying: God's imputed righteousness is without any works of our own.

That is essentially what it means to be justified by grace through faith alone. So, I really don’t understand why you argue against that when you practically admit that it is the case.

 

[Hopeful 2]

That is what Rom 4 is saying: God's imputed righteousness is without any works of our own. Works of our own are the problem of man not believing and obeying God. They are our the works of man's own will without God's Spirit and His faith.

They are called dead works, works of darkness, unrighteous works, and works of our own righteousness, that are filthy rags to God. These are the works we must all repent of doing without Christ, that we may do His good works as commanded from the beginning.

You forgot the works of the Law: which was Paul's point all along.

Those are the works of our own will that by repentance we become without, when through the faith of Jesus Christ, we are now imputed His righteousness.

If our new righteousness and faith from God remains without any works at all, then our faith becomes dead, being alone without doing any good at all.

God does not dwell in any soul doing no good, by having their faith alone to themselves:

1Jo 3:17But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

Imputed righteoiusness by faith that keeps alone, is a car with new gas put in, that does not drive. The unused gas becomes old and dead.

So it is with being a hearer of the word only, and the seed of faith sown by the wayside.

Some other examples of having faith alone, are the talent buried in the earth, and the lamp hid under a bushel, and the salt losing it's savor.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I see your point, since we all must stand before God to give an account of our deeds.

However, we know murderers, theives, and cut throats don't have any faith toward God at all:

1Jo 3:15Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

I believe when we stand before God, the resurrection/tranformation will speak for itself,

Be not deceived; God isnot mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Gal.6:7 KJV

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

We are justified by faith alone, apart from works good or bad. That is what the Bible clearly teaches.

We're justified by Christ's atonement for our sins on the cross, where he took our sins upon himself, he received the wrath of God which we deserve. He became the serpent, the symbol of sin, hung on the cross. That is what justification means and what the bible clearly teaches - substitutionary atonement. Sin doesn't disappear into the thin air, it must be accounted for, that's an inherent design of this world, it's God's law of the cosmos.

 

[Josef]

I see your point, since we all must stand before God to give an account of our deeds.

However, we know murderers, theives, and cut throats don't have any faith toward God at all:

1Jo 3:15Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Hey All,

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Every man has a measure of faith.
Our faith comes from God. (Ephesians 2 8-10)
Faith, it is said, comes by hearing. (Romans 10:17)
But to hear it, we need ears to hear, don't we? (Matthew 11:15 and other places.)
How do we obtain these listening ears?

Romans 2:13-15 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Notice, its not the Law, it is the "work of the Law"
that is written in their hearts.

What is the work of the Law?
In a nutshell, the Law is, love God, love others, and love yourself.
That fulfills the Law.

Doing the "work of the Law" is the same as doing the works of faith. Their respective outcomes are the same, agape (or pure) love.

Romans 3:22-24 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

We are made righteous by faith "of Jesus." The faith "of Jesus" combined with our faith ("unto all them that believe") makes us righteous.
We are justified"freely " (freely means without cost, i.e. we do not pay for, or earn it) by his grace, (God's grace) through the redemption (redemption - buying back; re-obtaining) that is in Christ Jesus.

Our righteousness is of God; through the faith we have been given by God of Jesus.
The faith of Jesus combined with the faith God gave us allows us to experience God's grace;
His unmerited favor.
Thus we can do nothing to earn it.
And no believing is not doing something.
Because you already knew what you are now understanding.
God wrote it in your heart before you believed.

Isn't that waaaaaay cool?

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[deepfaithpraise]

Never understood how the concept of "by faith alone" could gain any traction. It literally says "Faith without works is dead" right there in the bible. I've heard the counterargument of "If you have that faith, God will work on your heart and good works will follow", but as someone who grew up in a church, let me tell you, nothing could be farther from the truth.

 

[Free]

We're justified by Christ's atonement for our sins on the cross, where he took our sins upon himself, he received the wrath of God which we deserve. He became the serpent, the symbol of sin, hung on the cross. That is what justification means and what the bible clearly teaches - substitutionary atonement. Sin doesn't disappear into the thin air, it must be accounted for, that's an inherent design of this world, it's God's law of the cosmos.

Okay, but that doesn’t have anything to do with the discussion. That isn’t what we’re talking about.

 

[WIP]

Never understood how the concept of "by faith alone" could gain any traction. It literally says "Faith without works is dead" right there in the bible. I've heard the counterargument of "If you have that faith, God will work on your heart and good works will follow", but as someone who grew up in a church, let me tell you, nothing could be farther from the truth.

Yes, faith without works is a dead faith. In other words, if we truly have faith in God, it will be recognized by our works. James is not saying that we can earn our way into heaven by our works. He says that if we do not have works, we do not have a living faith for if we have a living faith in God, it will show in the way we think, speak, act, and live.

If I claim to be a generous person, what good is it if I am not generous? That's just lip service and it would be a dead or false claim. The more we know, believe, and trust God, i.e. have faith, the more we reflect a life worthy of that faith and the more we become like Jesus. Now faith comes from God but we also need to be willing to seek it out in prayer.

Lip service counts for nothing. Too many today see Christianity like an exclusive social club. We go to church one day a week for an hour or so and the rest of the week we live secular lives. Over 60% of the US population claim the title "Christian." That's down from 80% in 2008. Take a look around. Do we as a nation reflect Jesus in our society? No, we do not live our lives worthy of that title. A Christian is a follower of Christ and that means he/she follows His ways....always. Jesus should be recognized by our works and love for others.

Will we make mistakes? Absolutely! Because, we are a broken people and that is why Jesus had to come, die, and rise again for us. I thank God for Jesus! When we recognize our mistakes we must acknowledge them, ask for forgiveness, and repent. If we can't or refuse to do that, then our faith is seriously lacking.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:8-10 NKJV

Jesus said....
“If you love me, keep my commandments."
John 14:15 NKJV

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
John 13:34-35 NKJV

“You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven."
Matthew 5:14-16 NKJV

“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’"
Matthew 25:31-40 NKJV

In other words, let our faith light shine so others can see our faith!

 

[RBDERRICK]

Hey All,

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Every man has a measure of faith.
Our faith comes from God. (Ephesians 2 8-10)
Faith, it is said, comes by hearing. (Romans 10:17)
But to hear it, we need ears to hear, don't we? (Matthew 11:15 and other places.)
How do we obtain these listening ears?

Romans 2:13-15 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Notice, its not the Law, it is the "work of the Law"
that is written in their hearts.

What is the work of the Law?
In a nutshell, the Law is, love God, love others, and love yourself.
That fulfills the Law.

Doing the "work of the Law" is the same as doing the works of faith. Their respective outcomes are the same, agape (or pure) love.

Romans 3:22-24 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

We are made righteous by faith "of Jesus." The faith "of Jesus" combined with our faith ("unto all them that believe") makes us righteous.
We are justified"freely " (freely means without cost, i.e. we do not pay for, or earn it) by his grace, (God's grace) through the redemption (redemption - buying back; re-obtaining) that is in Christ Jesus.

Our righteousness is of God; through the faith we have been given by God of Jesus.
The faith of Jesus combined with the faith God gave us allows us to experience God's grace;
His unmerited favor.
Thus we can do nothing to earn it.
And no believing is not doing something.
Because you already knew what you are now understanding.
God wrote it in your heart before you believed.

Isn't that waaaaaay cool?

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

Are you saying the law of Christ can be fulfilled by faith alone, including while transgress His law in an evil work, even including murder?

In any case, 1 John 3 is not just drawing the line with murder, to prove someone has no love nor faith toward God nor man. Scripture is only saying if anyone believes, and even preaches, that any murderer can be loving God and man, then there's no point whatsoever in arguing with their 'faith' and doctrine to do so.

1Jo 3:15Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

And the Scripture is speaking of present hate and murder, not past works that can be repented of for Jesus' sake.

 

[Free]

Never understood how the concept of "by faith alone" could gain any traction.

Because the Bible teaches we are justified by grace alone through faith alone. According to John:

Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. (ESV)

According to Jesus:

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (ESV)

Joh 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. (ESV)

Joh 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” (ESV)

Joh 20:31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (ESV)

According to Paul:

Rom 3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—
Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Rom 3:29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,
Rom 3:30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. (ESV)

Rom 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
…
Rom 5:15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.
Rom 5:16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.
Rom 5:17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. (ESV)

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (ESV)

Rom 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim);
Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. (ESV)

Gal 2:16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. (ESV)

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.
Gal 3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
Gal 3:4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
Gal 3:5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—
Gal 3:6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
Gal 3:7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.”
Gal 3:9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
Gal 3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.”
Gal 3:11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”
Gal 3:12 But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.”
Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—
Gal 3:14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
…
Gal 3:21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.
Gal 3:22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
Gal 3:23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.
Gal 3:24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,
Gal 3:26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. (ESV)

Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. (ESV)

Tit 3:4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Tit 3:6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
Tit 3:7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Tit 3:8 The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people. (ESV)

It literally says "Faith without works is dead" right there in the bible.

In one spot, with a very specific context. James's point is that someone who claims to have saving faith but no works, doesn't have saving faith. Good works are the evidence of saving faith, of having been justified. No one is justified by good works.

I've heard the counterargument of "If you have that faith, God will work on your heart and good works will follow", but as someone who grew up in a church, let me tell you, nothing could be farther from the truth.

Then such people weren’t saved. Good works are evidence of a saving faith, of having been justified, but they do not save us.

 

[RBDERRICK]

"James's point is that someone who claims to have saving faith but no works, doesn't have saving faith. Good works are the evidence of saving faith."

I agree. There is no saving faith, that has no works. Good works prove the faith is saving the soul.

While there's no saving faith without good works, in James 2 there is faith without good works: It's either dead faith being alone, or it's sinful faith with evil works.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Works are the natural by-product of faith.

True, whether good or evil.

Equating faith & works as well placing them in the wrong chronological order is where people veer into the ditch on the subject.

True again. Works without faith toward God, are our own works we do without Christ.

Them having the faith of Jesus will do His works.

Jesus's emphasis was always on faith first , the implication being that faith will take care of the works .

True again. Faith cleanses the inside first, that both inside and outside may be clean.

Mat 23:26Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Works alone only clean up the life, but not the heart.

Faith alone cleanses neither inside nor out.

Jesus ascribes salvation to the centurion , yet there is no mention from Jesus of the Centurion's works .

His work was sending his servant for Jesus. And doing so humbly.

The faith that Jesus commended, was believing His word alone would do the work of healing.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Hey All,
Even the works we do are not ours.

James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

God's gives us the measure of faith we need to believe.
The works that come after salvation are His.
God works through us. And through His work, by allowing us to participate in it, our faith is perfected.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

True. When we repent of sins and trespasses, we are repenting of our own works done without Christ. When we repent of our own works to receive Christ, we enter into His rest from our own works.

The problem is with doing unrighteous works. That's when our faith is dead toward God, and not alive in Christ.

James 2 gives two examples of corrupting the faith of the Lord, to have our own faith alone, that is dead toward God and does not save nor justify the soul: By committing acts of sin such as having respect of persons, and by not doing good, which is the sin of ommission.

 

[Consecrated Life]

His work was sending his servant for Jesus. And doing so humbly.

Yes, but can imagine what kind of "works" a man of his faith must have accomplished after his servant was healed ?
We are not told, but in my mind a man like him who delt with multitudes of people everyday asd this centurion must have, had to have gone on to testify to hundreds if not thousands of people as to the Love of God in Christ Jesus .
I think his real "work" had not even begun yet in the short account we are told .

 

[RBDERRICK]

That is essentially what it means to be justified by grace through faith alone.

No. It's what it means to be imputed righteousness, without having our own works apart from Christ.

It's not being justified by faith alone, but is only the beginning of being justified and righteous by the new life of doing godly and good works through Jesus Christ.

Once the faith is alone apart from any good works, then the faith is dead, and the imputed righteousness ends in the sin and trespass of not doing good.

Not only is any doctrine of having faith alone, a grammatical dead end in the Bible, but it's also an end to any righteousness and justification with God and His Christ.

So, I really don’t understand why you argue against that when you practically admit that it is the case.

Your 'essentially' and 'practically' are far apart from my distinct certainty. They call it close, but no cigar. Close by an inch, but a mile away.

The problem is teaching for doctrine of Christ, what people say is essentially and practically something, but is in fact their own doctrine of faith alone.

Just because something sounds right, doesn't make it right. In fact, that old serpent is a master of sounding really close to the truth, but always speaking a lie.

We can even be sincere about it, but sincerely wrong.

The simple fact is that the Bible distinctly says, that any faith without works, is dead, being alone. Therefore, it is a simple grammatical dead end for anyone trying to teach having any faith alone, whether they call it saving faith or not.

It makes no sense whatsoever to try and teach any faith alone from the Bible, no matter what the context.

There is imputed righteousness by faith without works, but not justification by faith alone.

The teaching therefore must search all the Scriptures to see how both are true.

Once any person repents of doing his own works for Jesus' sake, then all such past works are forgiven, and they are imputed Jesus' righteousness instead of their own. Righteousness is imputed without having any works of our own.

The error is trusting in having faith alone, apart from any works at all, because it is sin with God not to do good, the same as doing evil.

Imputed righteousness is the only starting point to run the race of Christ, but it is also only the starting point, not the race being run. Only those doing His righteousness are His righteous runners. Only by doing His works of faith are we justified with Him.

Seeking to be justified by faith alone, apart from doing good, is only in the imagination of man. Because with Christ loving God and man is only by doing it, not just by imagining it, while doing no good at all.

The only way to be imputed righteousness of God, is by His faith without our own works. The only way to be justified by God is doing His works of faith.

Seeking to be imputed His righteousness by doing our own good works, is vain work. And seeking to justified without doing any good, is vain imagination.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Yes, but can imagine what kind of "works" a man of his faith must have accomplished after his servant was healed ?
We are not told, but in my mind a man like him who delt with multitudes of people everyday asd this centurion must have, had to have gone on to testify to hundreds if not thousands of people as to the Love of God in Christ Jesus .
I think his real "work" had not even begun yet in the short account we are told .

We of course agree, that Scripture does not always need to spell out the practice of doing good by the faith of Jesus.

My only point is that there is no such thing as doing nothing, while exercising faith in Him. Even the hidden works of the heart to resist lust of the world, is our work of faith by His Spirit.

2Co 10:4(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Jas 4:6But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

 

[RBDERRICK]

You forgot the works of the Law: which was Paul's point all along.

True. Outward works of the law alone, are as dead to God as any works of transgression.

Though works of the law makes for better living in this world, than works of transgression, they alone do not justify the soul with God in the resurrection from the dead.

The judgment of our works is both within and without the body:

Mat 5:28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Luk 11:39And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.

The great majority of error in the churches between works alone and faith alone, is with faith alone. There are not near as many holiness Christians without faith, as there are faith Christians without holiness.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Yes, faith without works is a dead faith. In other words, if we truly have faith in God, it will be recognized by our works. James is not saying that we can earn our way into heaven by our works. He says that if we do not have works, we do not have a living faith for if we have a living faith in God, it will show in the way we think, speak, act, and live.

If I claim to be a generous person, what good is it if I am not generous? That's just lip service and it would be a dead or false claim. The more we know, believe, and trust God, i.e. have faith, the more we reflect a life worthy of that faith and the more we become like Jesus. Now faith comes from God but we also need to be willing to seek it out in prayer.

Lip service counts for nothing. Too many today see Christianity like an exclusive social club. We go to church one day a week for an hour or so and the rest of the week we live secular lives. Over 60% of the US population claim the title "Christian." That's down from 80% in 2008. Take a look around. Do we as a nation reflect Jesus in our society? No, we do not live our lives worthy of that title. A Christian is a follower of Christ and that means he/she follows His ways....always. Jesus should be recognized by our works and love for others.

Very true, Good teaching

Will we make mistakes? Absolutely! Because, we are a broken people and that is why Jesus had to come, die, and rise again for us.

Mistakes? Are you speaking of sins and trespasses, or only tripping on cracks in the sidewalk?

What I don't understand is why some feel it necessary to add what appears to be some sort of disclaimer, from the good previously taught.

How can anyone made whole in Christ, be a broken person? We like all the world were broken in our sins and trespasses, but now we are made whole by repenting for Jesus' sake.

I thank God for Jesus! When we recognize our mistakes we must acknowledge them, ask for forgiveness, and repent. If we can't or refuse to do that, then our faith is seriously lacking.

Once again, tripping on a rock is a mistake that needs no repentance. Fornication, thefts, vile cursings, and drunkeness are transgressions in need of repentance, not mistakes.