Inherint contradictions teaching Faith Alone

[Hopeful 2]

I go by how God uses His words, not by dictionary definitions of men. If I want to be justified among men, then I'll use their definitions. If I seek to be justified by Christ, I'll seek His justification in Scripture.

No prob.
You are defining the "use" of the word, but not the word itself.

 

[Free]

I already argued difference between imputed righteousness by faith without works, and justification by works of faith.

Except that, as I pointed out, justification means that one has had Christ's righteousness imputed to them, so it cannot be by works.

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
Rom 4:6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
...
Rom 4:9 Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness.
Rom 4:10 How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised.
...
Rom 4:13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.
Rom 4:15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.
Rom 4:16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
...
Rom 4:20 No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God,
Rom 4:21 fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised.
Rom 4:22 That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.”
Rom 4:23 But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone,
Rom 4:24 but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord,
Rom 4:25 who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
Rom 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (ESV)

That alone puts an end to your position, although I have given this and much more before.

I only use Bible definition of justification: by works of faith in Jesus Christ.

But, as I already pointed out, and so did another, that is an incorrect use of "justification," not the definition. Two of us have provided a definition and you have yet to do so.

Having faith alone and having faith in Christ alone, is not the same faith.

The former is dead without good works, and the latter is alive in good works.

Yet again, as I have repeatedly stated, not a single person is arguing for "having faith alone." That is a complete misrepresentation of what is meant by justification by faith alone, as I have pointed out.

True. Justification is not by our works without Christ, but only by doing His works through His faith

No, justification is by no works. Period.

Tit 3:4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Promoting repentance from dead works, with or without the law.

Rom 2:12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;



It's a first step many Christians need to take, in order to move forward walking with Jesus Christ, rather than walking after the flesh with their own faith alone.

You previously quoted: Rom 2:13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

That is not "Promoting repentance from dead works, with or without the law." That is promoting dead works of the law for justification.

You've never heard of beleiving in something right and true? Or, you've never heard of believing in it, but not doing it?

Rom 2:13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

James{1:22} But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

I didn't understand what you were asking.

Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God

Joh 20:31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Not Christ's. Or, not Jesus Christ's.

Not apart from Christ's work on the cross, that is the basis of justification, but apart from all righteous works.

Christ in Rom 4 does not curse Christ in James 2

Of course not; Paul and James agree. It is you who doesn't understand what either Paul or James are talking about because you don't know what justification means, you don't know that it can mean different things in different contexts, as with many words.

 

[RBDERRICK]

What scripture do you use to prove that?

Mat 28:19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

It's a church ordinance commanded by Jesus Christ.

1Pe 3:21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

It's a church ordinance performed for fellowship into the body of Christ. Not to take a bath, nor to wash away sins.

Heb 6:1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal

There are doctrine of Christ is of baptisms, not only one baptism. There is the baptism of the Spirit, and of water by men. There is the circumcision of the Spirit, and of the flesh with hands of men.

The baptism with water is now commanded, not circumcision of the flesh.

No, water baptism accomplishes that.

Then circumcison of the flesh accomplishes that of the Spirit.

How does the Holy Ghost bury a person ?

The same way the Holy Ghost circumcises a person...

Where is "baptism of Christ" in the bible ?

1Co 12:12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The baptism of Christ is to drink in His Spirit.

Jhn 6:53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

And His spiritual blood.

What scripture do you use to illustrate a baptism of Christ ?

I go back to the start:

Col 2:10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Col 2:12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

If baptism in Christ must be with natural water, the so must circicision of Christ be with natural flesh.

I see you don't want to argue one without the others, and dismiss continuity and unity of Scripture. That's good. All the other arguments and questions are just sideshow poking and prodding.

Repentance doesn't wash away anything.

No, our repentance from dead works ceases from doing them. Washing them away without condemnation of death, is only by the Spirit of Christ with baptism, circumcision, and blood.

You said..."Justification is by doing righteousness from a right heart of God.", hut there is more to it than that unscriptural point.

Justification is not doing righteousness of God with a right heart? Or doing righteousness from a right heart of God, is not Scriptural?

If you mean "justification of Christ",

I'm not preaching justification of Buddha, Mohammed, nor any other man.

you need to say that clearly so others don't confuse it with our own being justified by the blood of Christ.

Scripture says we are washed from old sins and trespasses by the blood of the Lamb. We are also sprinkled with His blood by obedience to Christ.

We are justified by good works sprinkled with His blood.

You added a bunch to it when you yawed over to justification of Christ.

I don't play word games, nor nitpick between of, with, in, by, etrc...

If they are apart from God, they are not Christian sects.

Sects of Christian religion on earth. Not of the body of Christ on earth.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Justification is an act of God’s free grace, wherein he pardons all our sins, and accepts us as righteous in his sight, only for the righteousness of Christ imputed to us, and received by faith alone."

Imputed righteousness by God is the act of His grace to them that repent of their sinning for Jesus' sake.

Justification is the acts of the saints done by His grace.

There is no imputed righteousness to anyone not repented of their sinning.

And there is no justification for anyone sinning against Christ.

 

[RBDERRICK]

It isn't clear what you are saying here. No one, and certainly not me, is preaching "having faith alone." What do you mean by "having faith alone, that is not alone"?It would help if you just stick with what people are saying, which is that justification is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. That is often abbreviated as justification by faith alone.

Ok. This is new to me. Justification by faith alone is not having faith alone. Explain the difference between having faith alone, and being justified by faith alone.

And/or, is there any difference between justification by faith alone, and justification by having faith alone?

 

[RBDERRICK]

We are justified by God; it is his doing and there is nothing we can do to be justified.

But only believe?

It is based on Christ dying for us and taking our sins upon himself to make atonement and be the propitiation for our sins, and so his righteousness is imputed to us.

Which record of Jesus Christ is only found in Scripture.

So, justification is not by only believing, but only by believing the record of Jesus Christ in Scripture, is true?

1Jo 5:10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

By believing the record of Jesus Christ in Scripture is true, we are imputed righteousness, justified, and given eternal life?

And faith alone in Christ alone, is to only believe in Jesus Christ's record of Scripture, and not in any other christ recorded on earth, such as Buddha, Mohammed, or other Jewish messiahs?

Mark 13:22For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

A person is justified when they confess their trust in Christ;

Confessing trust in the Scriptural record as true, is confessing trust in the true Christ?

faith is the instrument, and the only instrument, of justification.

That faith alone in the only true record on earth, of the true Christ of God, is the only instument that justifies the soul with Christ?

The instument of our salvation and justification with God by Jesus Christ, is faith in the true record of His works on the cross?

The record of Jesus Christ in Scripture is true, whether anyone believes it or not, but only them that believe His record is true, is justified with God? Who gives record of His dear Son in the Scripture of truth...

Jhn 19:35And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

The work accomplished by Jesus Christ on the cross, was to have His work recorded in Scripture of truth forever, that if any might believe that true record, they would be justified with God and have eternal life with Christ forever?

Is this what you would preach, or is something missing, or needs be added, to be justified by faith alone in Christ alone?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Mat 28:19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
It's a church ordinance commanded by Jesus Christ.

Water baptism, now in the name of Jesus Christ, was commanded by Jesus.
But I see no "to accept fellowship of newly confessed believers".
Baptism is for the remission of past sins.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Yet again, as I have repeatedly stated, not a single person is arguing for "having faith alone." That is a complete misrepresentation of what is meant by justification by faith alone, as I have pointed out.

Yes, I saw your rejection of justification by faith alone, as having faith alone. And so, I'd like you to respond to my questions for you to clarify in post 146, just how we are justified by faith alone, without having faith alone.

Once again, I belip;eve you mean having faith alone is not justified, because it can be faith in anything alone.

The justifying faith alone is only in the Scriptural record of Jesus Christ, and not any other faith in another christ recorded one earth, such as Buddha, Mohammed, or another Jewish messiah.

Not apart from Christ's work on the cross, that is the basis of justification, but apart from all righteous works.

Once again, is justification by faith alone, only having faith in the true record of Christ's work on the cross, which is only found in Scripture alone?

If anyone believes the Scriptural record of Jesus Christ, and His work on the cross, is true, then that believer is imputed the righteousness of Christ, and now justified with God?

Jhn 19:35And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

The written record of Jesus and His work on the cross is of course true, but only them that believe it is true, are now justified with God?

I whole heartedly believe all things written of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, both in the old and new testament Scriptures, are all true.

If my confession is true from the heart, then am I now imputed His righteousness and justified with God by Jesus Christ?

 

[RBDERRICK]

Except that, as I pointed out, justification means that one has had Christ's righteousness imputed to them,

Imputed righteousness from Christ is by not doing our past works without Christ. Justification with Christ is being righteous as He is righteous,

1 John{3:7} Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous,
Which is by works of His righteousness we now do through His faith.

{2:24} Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

so it cannot be by works.

James{2:21} Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
{2:24} Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
{2:25} Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way?

But, as I already pointed out, and so did another, that is an incorrect use of "justification," not the definition.

Now I understand your demand for a definition and not just a means to fulfill it.

Bible justification with Christ is being righteous as He is righteous,

1 John{3:7} Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous,
Which is by doing His works of righteousness, through His faith.

{2:24} Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Thanks for the patience. Now I can answer such questions more readily. In order to more clearly show the difference between Bible imputed righteousness by faith with works, and Bible justification to be righteous by works doing righteousness.

No, justification is by no works. Period.

Tit 3:4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Scriptural discipline is by strict faithfulness to the words written.

Not by any works of our own righteousness without Christ.

Eph 2:12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Now we are made nigh doing works of God's righteousness with Christ.

You previously quoted: Rom 2:13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

That is not "Promoting repentance from dead works, with or without the law." That is promoting dead works of the law for justification.

Christ in Romans 2 is not promoting dead works of the law for justification, but doing the law to be justified with Christ. Christ in James 1 repeats the promotion by doing the word to be justified with Christ. The law and word of Christ are one and the same.

And my teaching on dead works is repentance from them, not doing them.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Not apart from Christ's work on the cross, that is the basis of justification, but apart from all righteous works.

It looks like what I am asking is what you demanded of me.

What is the definition of the faith alone that justifies.

I finally understand your demand for definition of the justification of works I preach, and gladly answered: Bible Justification by God, is being righteous as the Lord is righteous. You can agree or disagree with it, but it is a definition I use, without including the means of justification.

And so, what exactly is that justifying faith alone trusting in? What exactly is it that we are only to believe, to be justified with God?

I have offered faith alone in the record of Jesus Christ in the Scriptures. In that true record alone must we believe and trust in to be justified by God. And it's faith alone in that record, not in any other record than Scripture about Jesus Christ, nor in any record about any christ or messiah of another name.

Is that the definition of justifying faith alone? Is that what faith alone is in and trusts in alone, to be imputed righteousness and justified with God the Father?

 

[RBDERRICK]

No prob.
You are defining the "use" of the word, but not the word itself.

I finally understand the question. Justification defined by the Bible is: Being righteous as the Lord is righteous.

1 John{3:7} Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous

tThe means is by doing His righteousness. By doing His righteous works through faith in Him.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Water baptism, now in the name of Jesus Christ, was commanded by Jesus.

True. Jesus said in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Peter said in the name of Jesus Christ. Acts records in the name of the Lord.

But I see no "to accept fellowship of newly confessed believers".

That's the answer of a good conscience toward God, and them assembled for the baptism of water.

Act 8:36
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

We also see here that the matter of water baptism, includes the matter of permission by the ones baptizing the new convert: it's a matter of acceptance into the local church of believers.

If anyone wants to deny water baptism has anything to do with a public declaration of faith and fellowship with the fellow saints, isn't worth arguing about. It's self-explanatory by the very public nature of the act, and welcoming the new babe into the churches of God.

Baptism is for the remission of past sins.

True. The baptism of Christ, is the same operation of the Spirit in the soul, of the washing of water of the word, washing of the blood of the Lamb, and circumcision of the foreskin of the heart.

Since you're only either ignoring the teaching, or waiting for a response to it, and not trying to argue against it, then it's no matter to me.

I'm only interested in others supplementing what I teach, or soundly correcting it by Scripture. The purpose is a more perfect understanding of doctrine and prophecy of Scripture, not winning 'points' in some vain contest.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Water baptism, now in the name of Jesus Christ, was commanded by Jesus.
But I see no "to accept fellowship of newly confessed believers".
Baptism is for the remission of past sins.

Mar 16:16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

This can include water baptism, as well as the Spirit's baptism upon repentance by faith unto salvation.

Any commandment of the Lord wilfully not kept, ends any justification with Christ. James 2 shows that the faith is become dead without Christ, by refusing to do the good will of Christ and keep His commandments.

Anyone refusing water baptism commanded by the Lord, has a heart problem with the Lord Jesus, not just some kind of issue with outwardly religious deeds and conformity, or 'shyness', or even fear of water. (Water snakes are a different story...)

Luk 7:30But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

The faith of the Pharisees with the God of Israel was nullified, by not recieving the water baptism of His last great OT prophet, that came to prepare the way for the Lord Himself to His people.

However, as Jesus says, them that believe not are damned, not them that are not yet baptized with water. (Very few such baptisms are made so soon by faith, as did Phillip with the Ethiopian Eunuch)

 

[Hopeful 2]

I finally understand the question. Justification defined by the Bible is: Being righteous as the Lord is righteous.

1 John{3:7} Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous

tThe means is by doing His righteousness. By doing His righteous works through faith in Him.

So justification is righteousness ?

To me, justification means...shown to be without fault, or, made faultless.
Justifiable homicide is the result of a 'by the rules/legal' shooting.
A faultless killing.

I have been justified by God, and the blood of Christ.
My obedience has justified my beliefs.
We can justify God, and His words, by illustrating that He and His words can make us faultless.

 

[Hopeful 2]

True. Jesus said in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Peter said in the name of Jesus Christ. Acts records in the name of the Lord.

All those names are the same thing.

That's the answer of a good conscience toward God, and them assembled for the baptism of water.

That's quite a stretch, from water baptism's intended purpose.
I see no scriptures that indicate "acceptance of the fellowship of believers".

We also see here that the matter of water baptism, includes the matter of permission by the ones baptizing the new convert: it's a matter of acceptance into the local church of believers.

That is really reaching.

If anyone wants to deny water baptism has anything to do with a public declaration of faith and fellowship with the fellow saints, isn't worth arguing about. It's self-explanatory by the very public nature of the act, and welcoming the new babe into the churches of God.

Water baptism in the name of the Lord is for the remission of past sins.
It also facilitates the destruction/burial of the old man, and his being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
Rebirth.
By providing alternate reasons for baptism, we dilute its true purpose.

True. The baptism of Christ, is the same operation of the Spirit in the soul, of the washing of water of the word, washing of the blood of the Lamb, and circumcision of the foreskin of the heart.

As the phrase 'baptism of Christ' isn't in the KJV of the bible, I find it difficult to apply to anything at all.

Since you're only either ignoring the teaching, or waiting for a response to it, and not trying to argue against it, then it's no matter to me.

I'ld simply prefer you stuck to biblical explanations.

I'm only interested in others supplementing what I teach, or soundly correcting it by Scripture. The purpose is a more perfect understanding of doctrine and prophecy of Scripture, not winning 'points' in some vain contest.

That works for me.
Sometimes it looks like you go all over the place and loose the point of your response.
Brevity can sometimes say more than any very long post.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Mar 16:16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
This can include water baptism, as well as the Spirit's baptism upon repentance by faith unto salvation.
Any commandment of the Lord wilfully not kept, ends any justification with Christ. James 2 shows that the faith is become dead without Christ, by refusing to do the good will of Christ and keep His commandments.
Anyone refusing water baptism commanded by the Lord, has a heart problem with the Lord Jesus, not just some kind of issue with outwardly religious deeds and conformity, or 'shyness', or even fear of water. (Water snakes are a different story...)
Luk 7:30But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.
The faith of the Pharisees with the God of Israel was nullified, by not recieving the water baptism of His last great OT prophet, that came to prepare the way for the Lord Himself to His people.

However, as Jesus says, them that believe not are damned, not them that are not yet baptized with water. (Very few such baptisms are made so soon by faith, as did Phillip with the Ethiopian Eunuch)

I feel it is a major mistake to divorce 'water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins' from 'belief'.
Real believers get baptized.

 

[RBDERRICK]

So justification is righteousness ?

No.

1 John{3:7} Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous

Justification is being righteous, as the Lord is righteous.

The means of being justified and righteous with the Lord, is by doing His righteousness.

Imputed righteousness is being not guilty and uncondemned. Being righteous is by doing it.

The judge can impute righteousness and declare the trespasser not guilty. But the freeman must now do righteousness to be justified by the judge's mercy.

Without repentance, no one is imputed righteousness by the risen Judge and Lord Jesus Christ. Without doing righteousness, no one is justified by His mercy.

The good Judge is not wrong to grant mercy to the repentant, but righteous Judge never justifies trespass and transgression of His law.

Job 10:14If I sin, then thou markest me, and thou wilt not acquit me from mine iniquity.

Nah 1:3The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, but will not at all acquit the wicked:

To me, justification means...shown to be without fault, or, made faultless.

It's not to me nor any person to define God's justification. He does in His own words. It's to us to believe and live accordingly.

The problem for people on earth began and continues today, by making up their own definitions of God's word.

That especially includes making up their own definition of faith to be justified by.

Justification of Jesus Christ means doing His faith that keeps His commandments.

Rev 14:12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Gal 2:16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Self-justification means doing one's own faith alone that does both evil and good, whether by law or without.

Gen(3:5} For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Simply put, no person on earth is justified with Christ while doing unrighteousness, no matter what they believe, or what doctrine of words they produce to justify themselves as righteous.

Whether by their own faith alone without works, or by the law alone without the faith of Jesus.

I have been justified by God, and the blood of Christ.

God doesn't justify anyone without doing His righteousness.

Only them washed from past sins and doing His righteousness, are justified by God in Jesus Christ.

 

[RBDERRICK]

My obedience has justified my beliefs.

Obedience to what? Our own faith? Is the Jewish faith justified by obeying the Torah? The Muslim faith justified by obeying the Koran?

If our obedience justifies our faith, then we are justifying ourselves by doing our own faith. And so, what if our faith is not the faith of God?

Even many of the sinners trusting in justification by faith alone, also go on to preach judging their faith by works of 'progress' in their religion. They call it their fruit showing their faith is 'salvific'. I call it their religious fruit show.

It's obedience to God's word and law, that God justifies. And justified obedience to God can only be by the faith of His Son Jesus Christ.

Obedience to God's word, proves we have the faith of Jesus, which justifies the obedient.

Only the faith of Jesus justifies the soul, not any other faith of man's own. The gift by grace is the faith of Jesus that always does God's good will, rather than our own faith that does good and evil, or even more good and less evil than before.

His gift of justifying faith toward God, is only given freely to them that repent for His name's sake.

The gospel command is to repent. The gospel good news is mercy.

Cor {7:10} For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Acts 3:19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Heb {6:1} Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

We repent of dead works for conversion to the faith of Jesus, that saves us from sinning.

We can justify God, and His words, by illustrating that He and His words can make us faultless.

We can glorify God, not justify Him. He desires our worship and lives pleasing to Him, not our justification.

 

[Free]

Imputed righteousness by God is the act of His grace to them that repent of their sinning for Jesus' sake.

Of course.

Justification is the acts of the saints done by His grace.

No, justification is the result of having Christ's righteousness imputed. It is never by works, as the numerous passages I provided attest to.

There is no imputed righteousness to anyone not repented of their sinning.

Of course.

And there is no justification for anyone sinning against Christ.

There is no justification without repentance and having Christ's righteousness imputed.

Ok. This is new to me. Justification by faith alone is not having faith alone. Explain the difference between having faith alone, and being justified by faith alone.

And/or, is there any difference between justification by faith alone, and justification by having faith alone?

I don't know what you're asking. I really, really think you need to understand the proper definition of justification; that is where much of your confusion is.

 

[RBDERRICK]

All those names are the same thing.

That's quite a stretch, from water baptism's intended purpose.

The intended purpose is given as indicated by Scripture.

I see no scriptures that indicate "acceptance of the fellowship of believers".

There is no Scripture expressly saying it. Neither is there Scripture expressly saying Jesus Christ is God the Son.

The argument for what Scripture indicates is already given. Not acknowledging it doesn't make it go away.

That is really reaching.

Not for sensible readers, that only want to know what Scripture says about commanded water baptism of Jesus Christ

Water baptism in the name of the Lord is for the remission of past sins.

1Pe 3:21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
This Scripture specifically rejects that false Christian idea spreading through some eaarly churches, as well as today.

Baptism in water isn't for a bath of the body nor soul. If the act of water baptism with hands washes the soul, the the act outer circumcison with hands sanctifies the soul.

By providing alternate reasons for baptism, we dilute its true purpose.

By providing alternative reasons for water baptism, we disannul the true purpose of the Spirit's baptism.

The same as circumcsion with hands.

As the phrase 'baptism of Christ' isn't in the KJV of the bible,

"Jesus Christ is God the Son" isn't either.

I find it difficult to apply to anything at all.

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

And so, Baptism of the Spirit is not the baptism of Christ?

I really didn't think you would go there, just to not be instructed in any iota.