Inherint contradictions teaching Faith Alone

[Hopeful 2]

True. Outward works of the law alone, are as dead to God as any works of transgression.

Isn't "works of transgression" sin ?

Though works of the law makes for better living in this world, than works of transgression, they alone do not justify the soul with God in the resurrection from the dead.

I agree...keeping the Law of Moses is fruitless without faith in the Redeemer

The judgment of our works is both within and without the body:

Mat 5:28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Luk 11:39And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.
The great majority of error in the churches between works alone and faith alone, is with faith alone. There are not near as many holiness Christians without faith, as there are faith Christians without holiness.

Looking clean doesn't make on clean.
I think it is only the unbelieving Jews who would push works of the Law, alone.

 

[WIP]

Very true, Good teaching


Mistakes? Are you speaking of sins and trespasses, or only tripping on cracks in the sidewalk?

What I don't understand is why some feel it necessary to add what appears to be some sort of disclaimer, from the good previously taught.

How can anyone made whole in Christ, be a broken person? We like all the world were broken in our sins and trespasses, but now we are made whole by repenting for Jesus' sake.






Once again, tripping on a rock is a mistake that needs no repentance. Fornication, thefts, vile cursings, and drunkeness are transgressions in need of repentance, not mistakes.

There's a difference between mistakes as we are prone to make them as it is our nature and intentionally defying the law. There is none that are capable of fulfilling the law to perfection. That was the point of Jesus' sermon on the mount. No matter how hard we try, we are incapable of being perfect. It is for this reason that Jesus, that perfect Lamb of God, had to die in our place. I honestly do not believe anyone except Jesus totally understands what perfection in the eyes of God truly is.

 

[Hopeful 2]

There's a difference between mistakes as we are prone to make them as it is our nature and intentionally defying the law. There is none that are capable of fulfilling the law to perfection.

Jesus, our example, did it.

That was the point of Jesus' sermon on the mount.

He concluded that sermon with the command to be perfect as God is perfect.
He doesn't command the impossible.

No matter how hard we try, we are incapable of being perfect.

I've got good news for you !

It is for this reason that Jesus, that perfect Lamb of God, had to die in our place. I honestly do not believe anyone except Jesus totally understands what perfection in the eyes of God truly is.

Try to figure rebirth from God's seed into your equation.
Since the resurrection of Christ, we can all be perfectly obedient !

 

[RBDERRICK]

Isn't "works of transgression" sin ?

Yes. Any work of man without the faith of Jesus, is judged sinful by God. Including neighborly and right works, which are filthy rags to God without Christ and His faith from a pure heart.

1Co 13:3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Being a good neighborly sinner with or without religion, isn't good enough to be justified by Christ.

Tit 3:5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Mat 5:20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Having righteousness greater than the outwardly righteous, is by having righteousness in a pure heart first.

Imputed righteousness is within the heart cleansed by repentance from our own works. Justification is by doing righteousness from a right heart of God.

Psa 51:10Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

I think it is only the unbelieving Jews who would push works of the Law, alone.

You weren't in the holiness pentecostal churches I was once into...It's what the Ephesian church was becoming, by leaving the first works of the Spirit and faith in the heart, for outward works alone.

 

[RBDERRICK]

There's a difference between mistakes as we are prone to make them as it is our nature and intentionally defying the law.

Besetting sin is repeated transgression of the law. When it comes to the spiritual death of sins and trespasses, it has nothing to do with frequency.

Once again, how can anyone now partaking of the divine nature of Christ, still have the sinful nature of the world?

I argue Scripture only from the mind of Christ, not from that of the religious nor the sinner.

What I suggest you do, like me, is not argue anything from our own mind, but only that which is written.

Ex: No Scripture anywhere calls any sin, trespass, and transgression against Christ, a 'mistake'. It's like dumbing down Scripture, to the point where repeated sinning isn't so sinful, but only a regular oopsie of sorts. Which usually explains why it keeps getting repeated...

There is none that are capable of fulfilling the law to perfection.

Once again, you're not arguing from the mind of Christ in Scripture, where He seeks our perfection on earth, to walk with Him as He walked.

No matter how hard we try, we are incapable of being perfect.

And again, where does Scripture say anything about trying to keep the commandments of the Lord?

If we stick to Bible words, when seeking to teach the Bible, then things would not only be correct, but also much clearer to our own hearts.

For starters: Stop calling unrepented sinning, that continues to naturally be done, mistakes. Call them what they are: Unrepented repeated sinning.

It doesn't mean we can't be forgiven, but the law and word of the Lord is written specifically to make any and all sinning, to be exceeding sinful. Only in this way can Christ generate godly sorrow in the heart unto repentance once for all.

I honestly do not believe anyone except Jesus totally understands what perfection in the eyes of God truly is.

Once again, think with the mind of Christ from Scripture:

Perfection of God in heaven, is not being able to even be tempted to sin. Perfection of Jesus and His saints on earth, is not falling to temptation, by overcoming the sinning.

Being perfected in heaven, is being eternally free from any and all lust and temptation to sin against Christ.

Be perfect in Christ on earth is simply keeping a pure heart of faith toward God, and walking blamelessly with Him:

1Ti 1:5Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

2Co 7:1Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

2 Peter 1Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

1 Thess{5:22} Abstain from all appearance of evil. {5:23} And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. {5:24} Faithful [is] he that calleth you, who also will do it.

We must stop preaching our own religion as we live and experience it, and only preach what is written, as well as all that is written about the soul and matters of this life. Only then can we at least see things clearly by which to judge ourselves, whether we be in the faith of Jesus or not.

And if proven not in the faith by works, then we can honestly go back to step one to be saved God's way by repenting God's way, and not our own:

Ezek 18:31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Acts 17:30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Acts 3:19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

And if we do stand before the Lord honestly to repent of all our own sins and trespasses, and have the faith of His Son purely in our hearts, then exactly how hard is it really at any given time, not to lust and commit repeated iniquity with the world?

Is it really impossible at any time to have a perfect heart toward Him, and not lusting and sinning against Him?

When we stop calling curcifying the Son afresh to ourselves, mistakes, and stop imagining the commandment of God is to be perfect as He on the throne, then perhaps with whole hearted repentance before the Lord, you too can see just how easy it is now and today to be and walk as He on earth.

Mat 11:28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Jas 3:17The wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

Afterall, it's only the way of the transgressor that is hard on earth.

Pro 13:15Good understanding giveth favour: but the way of transgressors is hard.

 

[Free]

No. It's what it means to be imputed righteousness, without having our own works apart from Christ.

It's not being justified by faith alone, but is only the beginning of being justified and righteous by the new life of doing godly and good works through Jesus Christ.

Once the faith is alone apart from any good works, then the faith is dead, and the imputed righteousness ends in the sin and trespass of not doing good.

This is exactly why I have continued to ask you for a definition of "justification," because you have a wrong definition. You seem to be equating justification with sanctification, but that is Roman Catholic definition of justification, not the biblical definition. Justification is a one time event, the point of salvation, where Christ's righteousness is imputed to us as a gift from God, by his grace, not through any works we can do.

Here is the definition, as given "in the answer to question 33 of the Westminster Shorter Catechism:

Justification is an act of God’s free grace, wherein he pardons all our sins, and accepts us as righteous in his sight, only for the righteousness of Christ imputed to us, and received by faith alone."

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/dressed-in-his-righteousness-alone

If you disagree with that, then please provide the definition of justification you're using.

Not only is any doctrine of having faith alone, a grammatical dead end in the Bible, but it's also an end to any righteousness and justification with God and His Christ.

Of course it is, but you are once again either not understanding or purposely misrepresenting what "faith alone" means and how it is used.

Your 'essentially' and 'practically' are far apart from my distinct certainty. They call it close, but no cigar. Close by an inch, but a mile away.

The problem is teaching for doctrine of Christ, what people say is essentially and practically something, but is in fact their own doctrine of faith alone.

You clearly didn't understand what I was saying. I was saying "essentially" and "practically" regarding what you said, not what the Bible says. I was simply trying to understand your position.

Just because something sounds right, doesn't make it right. In fact, that old serpent is a master of sounding really close to the truth, but always speaking a lie.

We can even be sincere about it, but sincerely wrong.

Of course.

The simple fact is that the Bible distinctly says, that any faith without works, is dead, being alone. Therefore, it is a simple grammatical dead end for anyone trying to teach having any faith alone, whether they call it saving faith or not.

It makes no sense whatsoever to try and teach any faith alone from the Bible, no matter what the context.

Again, you're either not understanding or purposely misrepresenting justification by faith alone. Not a single one of us is saying or has said that faith is to be alone. That is to take it completely out of context. In fact, it has been repeatedly stated that good works are evidence of justification, but they are never the means of justification. Anyone who teaches that works justify us is teaching another gospel.

There is imputed righteousness by faith without works, but not justification by faith alone.

When we are imputed the righteousness of Christ by faith alone, it means we are then declared righteous, which is what justification means. You cannot say that we are "imputed righteousness by faith without works," but that "justification [is not] by faith alone." Those are contradictory statements.

Once any person repents of doing his own works for Jesus' sake, then all such past works are forgiven, and they are imputed Jesus' righteousness instead of their own. Righteousness is imputed without having any works of our own.

Exactly, which means they are then justified by faith alone.

The error is trusting in having faith alone, apart from any works at all, because it is sin with God not to do good, the same as doing evil.

Again, not a single person here is making that argument because that has nothing at all to do with justification by faith alone.

Imputed righteousness is the only starting point to run the race of Christ, but it is also only the starting point, not the race being run. Only those doing His righteousness are His righteous runners. Only by doing His works of faith are we justified with Him.

No, we are justified by faith alone. I have given numerous passages which state that this is the case; none of which you addressed. The result is that we do good works out of obedience and as part of the process of being made holy and eventually glorified. It is a bit tricky because sanctification seems to be spoke of as both an initial state but also as an ongoing action.

Seeking to be justified by faith alone, apart from doing good, is only in the imagination of man. Because with Christ loving God and man is only by doing it, not just by imagining it, while doing no good at all.

The only way to be imputed righteousness of God, is by His faith without our own works. The only way to be justified by God is doing His works of faith.

Seeking to be imputed His righteousness by doing our own good works, is vain work. And seeking to justified without doing any good, is vain imagination.

So, some major problems with your understanding of justification and what is meant by justification by grace alone through faith alone. Again, this is precisely why I kept asking you for a definition, which you never gave.

"The righteousness that God requires for our justification is not a righteousness that we perform, even by sovereign grace, but it is the righteousness of Jesus Christ imputed to us by God. It’s called an alien righteousness.

Yes, I believe in sanctification. Yes, I believe that sanctification, that is, my performed righteousness, is a necessary evidence of the authenticity of my faith which unites me to Christ, who is my righteousness. Yes, I believe there should be holiness of life and you can go to hell for not being a holy person because the holiness that you lack shows you are not trusting God, and thus not united to Jesus, and thus not sharing in his righteousness, which is perfect.

God requires a perfect righteousness. We cannot perform it."

https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/the-doctrine-of-justification-by-faith

https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/faith-and-the-imputation-of-righteousness

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes. Any work of man without the faith of Jesus, is judged sinful by God. Including neighborly and right works, which are filthy rags to God without Christ and His faith from a pure heart.

Agreed.
That reminds me of Matt 7:23..."And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Good deeds without Christ are worthless to God.

Being a good neighborly sinner with or without religion, isn't good enough to be justified by Christ.

Agreed.

Having righteousness greater than the outwardly righteous, is by having righteousness in a pure heart first.

Yep.

Imputed righteousness is within the heart cleansed by repentance from our own works.

Actually, our hearts/our selves are cleansed by baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin. (Acts 2:38)
Repentance is the turning away from sin, darkness, and satan.

Justification is by doing righteousness from a right heart of God.

Yes, but justification comes with more baggage than that narrow simplification.
It is written..."Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: (Rom 5:1)
And..."Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." (Rom 5:9)
James 2:21 fits your perspective/facet of justification better..."Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?"
And..."Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24)

You weren't in the holiness pentecostal churches I was once into...It's what the Ephesian church was becoming, by leaving the first works of the Spirit and faith in the heart, for outward works alone.

The catholics were the same way.

 

[RBDERRICK]

This is exactly why I have continued to ask you for a definition of "justification," because you have a wrong definition.

Scripture's definition.

James{2:21} Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? {2:22} Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? {2:23} And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. {2:24} Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Nothing new.

You seem to be equating justification with sanctification,

Scripture does.

1Co 6:11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

We are either now all washed, sanctified, and justified in Christ, or we are not at all.

1 Thess{5:22} Abstain from all appearance of evil. {5:23} And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. {5:24} Faithful [is] he that calleth you, who also will do it.

2Co 5:17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Being born again, saved, washed, sanctified, justified, circumcised, and baptised at once by the quick and powerful Spirit of Christ: all old things cut off at once, and all things now new and of God in Christ Jesus.

Here is the definition, as given "in the answer to question 33 of the Westminster Shorter Catechism:

Justification is an act of God’s free grace, wherein he pardons all our sins, and accepts us as righteous in his sight, only for the righteousness of Christ imputed to us, and received by faith alone."

True, until the last word, which makes it all just dead words strung together by the unrepented, or lukewarm repented.

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/dressed-in-his-righteousness-alone

"Notice that justification is an act, not a work or process.4 It is not a hopeful destination. It is God’s gracious, once-for-all verdict — his declaration of a person to be righteous in Christ, and therefore fully accepted by God."

True. Being washed, sanctified, and justified in Christ is a single complete act of God's Spirit by repentance from all old dead works without Christ.

Rom 6:4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Gal 2:20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Deu 10:16Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Col 2:10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Any part of the old man and foreskin not crucified and circumcised for Christ, has no part in the washed, sanctified, justified, crucified, and circumcised body of Christ.

Jesus Christ accepts nothing less than full unconditional surrender from any and all of His enemies that slew Him on a tree.

Of course it is, but you are once again either not understanding or purposely misrepresenting what "faith alone" means and how it is used.

I understand that some agree in words only, that teaching any 'faith alone' is a biblical nonstarter. But they still insist their own special brand of faith alone is lively, not dead.

Again, you're either not understanding or purposely misrepresenting justification by faith alone.

There is only one way by Scripture to represent justification by faith alone:

James {2:24} Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Any believer can have their own justification by their own faith alone on earth, but not with Christ Jesus on earth nor in heaven.

Not a single one of us is saying or has said that faith is to be alone.

It is when it's dead on the wayside.

For faith to save and justify the hearer, the soul must be doing the word of faith.

Rom 2:13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

James{1:22} But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Hearing and agreeing does not justify anyone with Christ.

In fact, it has been repeatedly stated that good works are evidence of justification, but they are never the means of justification.

I.e. having 'faith alone' is a fall back justification, when not doing good.

Anyone who teaches that works justify us is teaching another gospel.

True, another gospel than justification by faith alone.

James{2:21} Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? {2:24} Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

When we are imputed the righteousness of Christ by faith alone, it means we are then declared righteous, which is what justification means.

In the gospel of repentance unto salvation, being made righteous is by doing righteousness.

1 John{2:29} If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1 John{3:7} Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous

Only believing in what's right, doesn't make anyone righteous in the Bible.

You cannot say that we are "imputed righteousness by faith without works," but that "justification [is not] by faith alone." Those are contradictory statements.

Rom 4:6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

{2:24} Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

The Bible preaches the gospel of imputed righteousness by faith without works, and justification by works, not by faith alone. The Bible does not contradict itself.

RBDERRICK said:
The error is trusting in having faith alone, apart from any works at all, because it is sin with God not to do good, the same as doing evil.

Again, not a single person here is making that argument because that has nothing at all to do with justification by faith alone.

Trusting in faith alone apart from works to justify, has nothing to do with being justified by faith alone?

There's no trusting in either?

 

[RBDERRICK]

as part of the process of being made holy and eventually glorified.

Growth in being godly and holy, is only by obedience to the Holy One.

Disobedience ends any growth in Christ Jesus, because it ends sonship of God.

1Jo 3:9Whosoever is born of God is not committing sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot be sinning, because he is born of God.

Any 'process' of only learning disobey less than before, is only growth in religion for the children of a lesser disobedience. (Reminds me of an old movie, "The Children of a Lesser God.")

It is a bit tricky because sanctification seems to be spoke of as both an initial state but also as an ongoing action.

It's the one time work of Christ in salvation, sanctification, and justification with God, that remains the same work of salvation and separation from disobedience to God: So long as faithful obedience remains.

1 Thess{5:22} Abstain from all appearance of evil. {5:23} And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. {5:24} Faithful [is] he that calleth you, who also will do it.

1Co 6:11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

"The righteousness that God requires for our justification is not a righteousness that we perform,

1 John{3:7} Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous

I only believe and preach the gospel of justification by works, not by faith alone. And the righteousness that is by doing it, not by just believing in it.

even by sovereign grace, but it is the righteousness of Jesus Christ imputed to us by God. It’s called an alien righteousness.

It's the righteousness of man to only sin less, that is alien to God.

Eph 2:12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Yes, I believe in sanctification.

It's the incomplete sanctification by half-hearted repentance, that is being argued against.

Yes, I believe that sanctification, that is, my performed righteousness, is a necessary evidence of the authenticity of my faith which unites me to Christ, who is my righteousness.

Then any faith alone without authentic works, is not authentic faith. James 2 preaches it.

There's only living faith with living works, or dead faith without works, being alone.

Yes, I believe there should be holiness of life and you can go to hell for not being a holy person

True. The unholy and ungdoly sinners against God, are not holy, godly, sanctified saints of God.

because the holiness that you lack shows you are not trusting God,

True. All unholiness and unrighteousness of man is without any faith toward God, nor trust in Jesus Christ.

and thus not united to Jesus, and thus not sharing in his righteousness, which is perfect.

True. 2Pe 1:9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

1Th 4:12That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.
James 2 preaches lacking holiness, righteousness, godliness, charity, is doing unholy, unrighteous, and ungodly sin:
Jas 4:17Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

God requires a perfect righteousness. We cannot perform it."

Heb 13:7Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

And so we see the end of preaching one's own faith alone:

Unbelief toward God to do His righteousness.

Rom 3:3For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Rom 10:10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

And more unholiness in life:

2Ti 2:16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

That's the faith that has no rule over me, and the religious conversion I decline.

 

[Free]

Scripture's definition.

James{2:21} Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? {2:22} Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? {2:23} And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. {2:24} Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Nothing new.

First, no, that’s the use of justification, not a definition. Second, I think you need to read closer. What does it say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”.

Gen 15:6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness. (ESV)

That was based on belief, on faith in God, not works.

Third, you’re fallaciously begging the question by using just one meaning of justification, which isn’t the meaning James is using, unless you want to make him and Paul contradict:

Rom 4:1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, (ESV)

Paul very strongly disagrees with your position and understanding of James.

Scripture does.

1Co 6:11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

We are either now all washed, sanctified, and justified in Christ, or we are not at all.

1 Thess{5:22} Abstain from all appearance of evil. {5:23} And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. {5:24} Faithful [is] he that calleth you, who also will do it.

2Co 5:17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Being born again, saved, washed, sanctified, justified, circumcised, and baptised at once by the quick and powerful Spirit of Christ: all old things cut off at once, and all things now new and of God in Christ Jesus.

And, yet, you can’t define justification. Can you define sanctification? Provide definitions for both and then see if you can claim they can be equated.

True, until the last word, which makes it all just dead words strung together by the unrepented, or lukewarm repented.

Is that why you contjnually ignore the many passages I’ve given which unequivocally show that we are justified by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone?

You can’t even provide a simple definition of justification and so continually misrepresent what “by grave alone through faith alone” in your ignorance. You seem only interested in your opinion and not the truth. One who is interested in the truth searches diligently and answers objections and addresses all points presented.

Pro 16:16 How much better to get wisdom than gold! To get understanding is to be chosen rather than silver. (ESV)

Pro 23:23 Buy truth, and do not sell it; buy wisdom, instruction, and understanding. (ESV)

Do what Pro 23:23 says.

"Notice that justification is an act, not a work or process.4 It is not a hopeful destination. It is God’s gracious, once-for-all verdict — his declaration of a person to be righteous in Christ, and therefore fully accepted by God."

True. Being washed, sanctified, and justified in Christ is a single complete act of God's Spirit by repentance from all old dead works without Christ.

How can you agree when you don’t even know what justification means?

Any part of the old man and foreskin not crucified and circumcised for Christ, has no part in the washed, sanctified, justified, crucified, and circumcised body of Christ.

Jesus Christ accepts nothing less than full unconditional surrender from any and all of His enemies that slew Him on a tree.

Of course, and that is our works do not justify us.

I understand that some agree in words only, that teaching any 'faith alone' is a biblical nonstarter. But they still insist their own special brand of faith alone is lively, not dead

Again, misrepresentation due to willful ignorance. By the way, willful ignorance is very unbecoming of those who claim to follow Christ. Some even believe it to be a sin. And, it certainly doesn’t happen with those who are actually interested in truth and pursue understanding.

There is only one way by Scripture to represent justification by faith alone:

James {2:24} Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Any believer can have their own justification by their own faith alone on earth, but not with Christ Jesus on earth nor in heaven.

Again, you can’t even define justification, so you can’t even claim to understand this verse.

It is when it's dead on the wayside.

Whatever that means.

For faith to save and justify the hearer, the soul must be doing the word of faith.

Rom 2:13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Promoting dead works of the law for justification now. That’s a step backwards. Generally that isn’t the direction a person wants to move in for biblical understanding.

James{1:22} But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Hearing and agreeing does not justify anyone with Christ.

Hearing and putting one’s faith in Christ’s atonement is what justifies.

I.e. having 'faith alone' is a fall back justification, when not doing good.

Again, you are showing you have no idea what is even being talked about.

True, another gospel than justification by faith alone.

I don’t understand what you’re saying here.

In the gospel of repentance unto salvation, being made righteous is by doing righteousness.

1 John{2:29} If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1 John{3:7} Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous

Only believing in what's right, doesn't make anyone righteous in the Bible.

What do you mean by “believing on what’s right”?

Rom 4:6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,



The Bible preaches the gospel of imputed righteousness by faith without works,

Which is to be justified; justification is apart from works.

and justification by works, not by faith alone. The Bible does not contradict itself.

No it doesn’t. That is why Paul says you are to be considered accursed—that you should be excommunicated—for the abhorrent teaching that justification is by works, which is exactly what he means by “another gospel” in Gal 1.

Trusting in faith alone apart from works to justify, has nothing to do with being justified by faith alone?

You stated: "The error is trusting in having faith alone, apart from any works at all."

That is what I was addressing, which is different than your question above.

There's no trusting in either?

I don't understand what you're asking.

 

[Free]

Growth in being godly and holy, is only by obedience to the Holy One.

Exactly. And to grow in holiness is the process of sanctification.

Disobedience ends any growth in Christ Jesus, because it ends sonship of God.

No, it does not. Unless you want to say that Peter's sonship ended.

1Jo 3:9Whosoever is born of God is not committing sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot be sinning, because he is born of God.

This verse doesn't support your previous claim. Context is very important, since no verse exists in isolation.

Any 'process' of only learning disobey less than before, is only growth in religion for the children of a lesser disobedience. (Reminds me of an old movie, "The Children of a Lesser God.")

I'm not sure what you are saying here.

It's the one time work of Christ in salvation, sanctification, and justification with God, that remains the same work of salvation and separation from disobedience to God: So long as faithful obedience remains.

I don't see how this addresses what I stated.

I only believe and preach the gospel of justification by works, not by faith alone.

I know you do, and Paul says you are to be considered as one who is accursed because that is what you preach.

It's the righteousness of man to only sin less, that is alien to God.

Eph 2:12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

I'm not sure what that verse has to do with anything, but you stated that we grow in godliness and holiness. That can only mean that we aren't perfectly godly or holy, which means we sin. But, if we are to grow in those things, that can only mean that we sin less and less. Your position is contradictory.

It's the incomplete sanctification by half-hearted repentance, that is being argued against.

But no one is saying anything about "half-hearted repentance."

Then any faith alone without authentic works, is not authentic faith. James 2 preaches it.

There's only living faith with living works, or dead faith without works, being alone.

Of course, no one has said otherwise.

Heb 13:7Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

And so we see the end of preaching one's own faith alone:

Unbelief toward God to do His righteousness.

Rom 3:3For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Rom 10:10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

And more unholiness in life:

2Ti 2:16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

That's the faith that has no rule over me, and the religious conversion I decline.

I don't know what you're saying with any of this or what you're addressing.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Scripture's definition.
James{2:21} Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? {2:22} Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? {2:23} And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. {2:24} Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Nothing new.

That is just the use of the word "justified".
Here is the definition from the Oxford dictionary..."the action of showing something to be right or reasonable."
In a theological sense..."the action of declaring or making righteous in the sight of God."

 

[RBDERRICK]

Actually, our hearts/our selves are cleansed by baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin. (Acts 2:38)

Water baptism is an ordinance for the church to accept fellowship of newly confessed believers.

Baptism of the Spirit is the same work of circumcision of the heart.

Col 2:10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Col 2:12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

The circumcision and baptism of Christ is the same operation of the Spirit: If the baptism of Christ is with natural water, then the circumcision of Christ is with natural flesh.

Scripture always provides a way to know exactly what God means in the doctrine of Christ.

Repentance is the turning away from sin, darkness, and satan.

True. Our old life apart from Christ.

Eph 2:12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Yes, but justification comes with more baggage than that narrow simplification.
It is written..."Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: (Rom 5:1)
And..."Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." (Rom 5:9)
James 2:21 fits your perspective/facet of justification better..."Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?"
And..."Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24)

Not sure what you mean. Justification of Christ is doing His good will.

You're showing the means of that justification by good works of Christ. Not any baggage coming with them, other than honor and glory to the Lord:

Rom 2:7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Rom 2:9But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

I wouldn't call such things baggage.

The catholics were the same way.

Yes, certain sects of them. There have always been sects of holiness rules without faith from a pure heart, first in the Jews religion, and now the Christians religion.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Water baptism is an ordinance for the church to accept fellowship of newly confessed believers.

What scripture do you use to prove that?
I disagree.

Baptism of the Spirit is the same work of circumcision of the heart.

No, water baptism accomplishes that.

Col 2:10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

How does the Holy Ghost bury a person ?

The circumcision and baptism of Christ is the same operation of the Spirit: If the baptism of Christ is with natural water, then the circumcision of Christ is with natural flesh.

Where is "baptism of Christ" in the bible ?

Scripture always provides a way to know exactly what God means in the doctrine of Christ.

What scripture do you use to illustrate a baptism of Christ ?

True. Our old life apart from Christ.

Repentance doesn't wash away anything.

Not sure what you mean. Justification of Christ is doing His good will.

You said..."Justification is by doing righteousness from a right heart of God.", hut there is more to it than that unscriptural point.
If you mean "justification of Christ", you need to say that clearly so others don't confuse it with our own being justified by the blood of Christ.
We can justify Christ by doing His will; something sinners cannot do.

You're showing the means of that justification by good works of Christ.

I'm not showing anything but scriptures defining justification.
You added a bunch to it when you yawed over to justification of Christ.

Yes, certain sects of them. There have always been sects of holiness rules without faith from a pure heart, first in the Jews religion, and now the Christians religion.

If they are apart from God, they are not Christian sects.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Hearing and putting one’s faith in Christ’s atonement is what justifies.

And it's believed that Christ's atonement is made by His death on the cross.

I believe I now understand how someone can preach having faith alone, that is not alone.

Having faith alone, is only having faith in the true record of Jesus Christ in the Bible, which includes His atonement?

Having faith alone in Jesus Christ, is believing only in His true record of the Bible, and not in any other written record of Buddha, Mohammed, etc...?

And that faith alone in His true written record is not alone, because His written record is true? And that faith alone is alive, because the written record of Jesus Christ is alive by His resurrection from the dead?

I.e. dead faith alone is faith in nothing? Or, in nothing true, but a lie? Having dead faith alone is either believing in nothing, or believing in something that is a lie?

Your faith alone in the true record of Jesus Christ and His atonement written in the Bible, justifies you with Christ?

Because you do believe the written record of Jesus Christ and His atonement is true, and do not believe in any other recorded christ nor atonenment, you are justified with Christ?

Finally, since you believe only the recorded truth of Jesus Christ and His atonement, is indeed true, then your faith alone in that true record is justified, because it is indeed true and Jesus Christ is alive from the dead?

You are justified with Christ by only believing in His true written record, which is your justification by having that faith alone? But your faith is not alone, because it is in the true living record of Scripture by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead?

Jhn 19:35And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

The record is written truly, that we might believe the record is true as written.

1Jo 5:10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Not believing in the true written record, makes God a liar, who gave the record to be written in the world.

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Believing only in the written record of Jesus Christ is true, and in none other, gives us eternal life by the Son of God Jesus Christ: Justification by that faith alone, is the righteousness of having only that faith in the true record of God, and not in any other.

With sin or without, with good or evil, with darkness or light, with wars or peace, having that faith alone in what is written about Jesus Christ and His atonement on the cross, justifes the soul with God, and gives us the eternal life of His true words...

Anything to correct about the doctrine of justification by having faith alone, in Christ's record alone? Which is in Christ alone?

 

[Free]

And it's believed that Christ's atonement is made by His death on the cross.

I believe I now understand how someone can preach having faith alone, that is not alone.

It isn't clear what you are saying here. No one, and certainly not me, is preaching "having faith alone." What do you mean by "having faith alone, that is not alone"?

It would help if you just stick with what people are saying, which is that justification is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. That is often abbreviated as justification by faith alone.

Having faith alone, is only having faith in the true record of Jesus Christ in the Bible, which includes His atonement?

Having faith alone in Jesus Christ, is believing only in His true record of the Bible, and not in any other written record of Buddha, Mohammed, etc...?

And that faith alone in His true written record is not alone, because His written record is true? And that faith alone is alive, because the written record of Jesus Christ is alive by His resurrection from the dead?

I.e. dead faith alone is faith in nothing? Or, in nothing true, but a lie? Having dead faith alone is either believing in nothing, or believing in something that is a lie?

Your faith alone in the true record of Jesus Christ and His atonement written in the Bible, justifies you with Christ?

Because you do believe the written record of Jesus Christ and His atonement is true, and do not believe in any other recorded christ nor atonenment, you are justified with Christ?

Finally, since you believe only the recorded truth of Jesus Christ and His atonement, is indeed true, then your faith alone in that true record is justified, because it is indeed true and Jesus Christ is alive from the dead?

You are justified with Christ by only believing in His true written record, which is your justification by having that faith alone? But your faith is not alone, because it is in the true living record of Scripture by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead?

Jhn 19:35And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

The record is written truly, that we might believe the record is true as written.

1Jo 5:10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Not believing in the true written record, makes God a liar, who gave the record to be written in the world.

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Believing only in the written record of Jesus Christ is true, and in none other, gives us eternal life by the Son of God Jesus Christ: Justification by that faith alone, is the righteousness of having only that faith in the true record of God, and not in any other.

With sin or without, with good or evil, with darkness or light, with wars or peace, having that faith alone in what is written about Jesus Christ and His atonement on the cross, justifes the soul with God, and gives us the eternal life of His true words...

Anything to correct about the doctrine of justification by having faith alone, in Christ's record alone? Which is in Christ alone?

We are justified by God; it is his doing and there is nothing we can do to be justified. It is based on Christ dying for us and taking our sins upon himself to make atonement and be the propitiation for our sins, and so his righteousness is imputed to us. A person is justified when they confess their trust in Christ; faith is the instrument, and the only instrument, of justification.

 

[RBDERRICK]

First, no, that’s the use of justification, not a definition. Second, I think you need to read closer. What does it say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”.

Gen 15:6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness. (ESV)

That was based on belief, on faith in God, not works.

I already argued difference between imputed righteousness by faith without works, and justification by works of faith.

Third, you’re fallaciously begging the question by using just one meaning of justification, which isn’t the meaning James is using,

I only use Bible definition of justification: by works of faith in Jesus Christ.

by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone?

Having faith alone and having faith in Christ alone, is not the same faith.

The former is dead without good works, and the latter is alive in good works.

Of course, and that is our works do not justify us.

True. Justification is not by our works without Christ, but only by doing His works through His faith

Promoting dead works of the law for justification now.

Promoting repentance from dead works, with or without the law.

Rom 2:12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

That’s a step backwards.

It's a first step many Christians need to take, in order to move forward walking with Jesus Christ, rather than walking after the flesh with their own faith alone.

What do you mean by “believing on what’s right”?

You've never heard of beleiving in something right and true? Or, you've never heard of believing in it, but not doing it?

Rom 2:13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

James{1:22} But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Which is to be justified; justification is apart from works.

Not Christ's. Or, not Jesus Christ's.

No it doesn’t. That is why Paul says you are to be considered accursed—that you should be excommunicated—for the abhorrent teaching that justification is by works, which is exactly what he means by “another gospel” in Gal 1.

Christ in Rom 4 does not curse Christ in James 2

 

[RBDERRICK]

No, it does not. Unless you want to say that Peter's sonship ended.

Not ended, unless without repentance. God does not have sinning children of the devil for sons.

1Jo 3:10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

In James 2, Having respect of persons in the faith is a sin against the brethren. Peter was not being a faithful son of God in his own dissimulation of the faith. He was still called to be a saint and apostle, and no doubt was continuing to teach and preach the gospel in Jesus' name. But until his personal respect of persons was repented of, he was not a faithful son of God loving all the brethren in Jesus Christ.

The Father judges all works righteously without respect of persons, especially those of His people, no matter what calling and office in the ministry of Christ:

1 Peter{1:14} As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: {1:15} But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; {1:16} Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. {1:17} And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear:

Saul was still anointed king over Israel, when the LORD rejected him. He also prophesied all night in the Lord, before continuing on unrepentedly to pursue David.

Preaching, teaching, ministering, and witnessing of the gospel of Jesus Christ, does not make anyone justified with Christ. Especially if they are also personally sinning in the faith.

Mat 7:22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

If Peter had not repented, then he would have continued not being a son of God unto the end, even if he had continued preaching as an apostle of Christ. He would no doubt have become a false apostle, along with others Judaizing the faith of Jesus Christ.

2 Cor 11:13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

1Jo 2:18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

False apostles and antichrists do not deny His name, but instead preach their own lies in His name. And many of them were once faithful ministers of Christ, that departed from the righteousness and true holiness of Christ, and went out from the fellowship of the saints in Christ Jesus. And some then begin to preach their sin as justified in Christ, and so after having been good ministers of Christ, they become enemies of the gospel of the cross.

Phl 3:17Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

If Peter had not repented of the ungodly sin of having respect of persons in the faith of the Lord, then he would have gone out from the gentile converts, to only fellowship with the Jews and judaized Christians.

But, we know he repented, for He continued in the Scriptures of God to write them. And we also know he repented at Paul's rebuke, by later commending Paul in the faith of the Lord Jesus.

2 Peter 3:16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Paul not only wrote mysteries by Christ hard to be understood, but he also preached sharp rebukes without repsect of persons, that could well be hard to accept and correct. He did so publicly with the apostle Peter, and rather than harden his heart to the late-coming apostle Paul, he repented before the Lord.

And thankfully he did so, not only for his own soul's sake, but also for ours in writing much more Scritpure to come.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Exactly. And to grow in holiness is the process of sanctification.

A growing continuance in being sanctified. Obedient sons grow in sanctification from sin, not unto sanctification of sinning less.

Just as Jesus did from a child unto His own death on a cross.

Likewise, His sanctified brethren grow in strength of obedience through all trials of faith.

Transgression by disobedience ends sanctification and halts any brotherhood in Christ Jesus, much less any growth.

1Jo 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Isa 55:7Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

1Pe 2:25For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

It does not mean we cannot repent and return to the Lord's mercy and reconciliation with God, but it does mean without repentance, we continue as all children of disobedience without Christ nor hope in the world.

Eph 2:12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

This verse doesn't support your previous claim.

The Scripture says no person committing sin against Christ, is a born son of God, which is without respect of persons.

Including any respect toward anyone's own personal faith they may have, while sinning against God and His Christ.

Context is very important, since no verse exists in isolation.

True.

1Jo 3:10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever not doing righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
3Jo 1:11Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that is doing good is of God: but he that is doing evil hath not seen God.
In Scripture, timing is all important: Our relationship with God, as well as with person on earth, is only as good or evil as it is now. Yesterday is gone, and tomorrow may not come.

Good and evil is now, as good and evil does now.

I know you do, and Paul says you are to be considered as one who is accursed because that is what you preach.

No problem. Neither what you say, nor what you say Christ says, matters to me.

Only what the Scriptures say Christ says, matters to me.

Act 17:11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

You can call me accursed for not agreeing with your gospel all you wish, or by cursing what I preach. I'll still be living the same way with my Lord.

If good, then I am justified with the sons of God. If evil, then I am condemned with all children of disobedience. My gospel is without respect of persons. I do not justify myself as a believer, whenever doing the same as the unbelievers.

I do not seek, accept, nor obey any unrighteous judge nor Christ, that judges his own believers innocent, while condemning unbelievers for doing the same things.

My righteous Lord Jesus Christ condemns us naming His name more than the world, if we are doing the same as the world.

Rom 2:23Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God. For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

, but you stated that we grow in godliness and holiness.

Only with obedience, not with any disobedience.

That can only mean that we aren't perfectly godly or holy

It only means we have not been tested in all things to prove our obedience.

2 Peter 1Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Jesus was tested most in His obedience to the Father on the cross. He not only submitted to wicked unjust hands, but did so without any hint of protest, self-defence, nor reviling of His false accusers. As the Lamb of God going meekly to the slaughter.

John{13:15} For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you

2 Peter{2:21} For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

His obedience without fail is our example to walk with Him. Any example of continued disobedience from time to time, is not that of Jesus Christ.

Nor is it the eample of His faithfully obedience followers:

1 Tim{4:11} These things command and teach. {4:12} Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

which means we sin.

Which means if we disobey by sin, we are not growing in obedience to Christ, but have returned to being a child of disobedience without Christ.

2Pe 2:20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Heb 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Those believers that cease to strive against any sinning, and accept they will continue to sin from time to time, can continually confess and repent to be restored to the Lord at such times. However, they are in danger of tempting the Lord and fall away without repentance once for all:

Heb 6:5If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

But, if we are to grow in those things, that can only mean that we sin less and less. Your position is contradictory.

You reframing my position of continued growth without disobedience, into your own process of less disobedience, is what contradicts one another.

I don't impute and read the doctrine of Christ I teach into that of others, in order to change their teaching into something else less credible.

Ex: I don't say your gospel of sinning less than before, is the gospel of sinning the same as before, so as to make it look more anathema.

But no one is saying anything about "half-hearted repentance."

God does so with them that repent not of all their sins and trespasses, but only gradually repent at their own pace to sin less and less. And never wholly repent to cease their sinning and trespassing on earth.

Ezek 18:31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Jerem 3:10And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

Those that preach salvation by faith alone unto gradual repentance, that never ceases all sins and trespasses, cannot have it both ways. They can call it the Lord's repentance, but it is not.

We must either preach God's commanded repentance from all sins and trespasses, to do them not, or preach some other kind of gradual repentance, only to do them less. We can't preach both at the same time.

I only preach the former in the gospel of repentance unto salvation, and always reject the latter in the gospel of salvation unto repentance. The former is salvation from sinning, and the latter is salvation from some sinning.

 

[RBDERRICK]

That is just the use of the word "justified".
Here is the definition from the Oxford dictionary..."the action of showing something to be right or reasonable."
In a theological sense..."the action of declaring or making righteous in the sight of God."

I go by how God uses His words, not by dictionary definitions of men. If I want to be justified among men, then I'll use their definitions. If I seek to be justified by Christ, I'll seek His justification in Scripture.

Which first of all never includes transgressing His word and will:

Gal 2:17But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Justification with Christ in the Bible is: being righteous as Christ, by doing works of Christ.

1 John{3:7} Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous

James{2:21} Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? {2:25} Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way?
Justification of God is also by speaking His words of truth from a pure heart:
Matth 12:37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Luk 6:45A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.