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Is freewill biblical or something the modern world invented ?

grumix8 said:
No, I talk something more complete we are still in the tip of the iceberg in freewill because we have to understand it thru the light in the old times of hebrew people know in hebrrew means more what we are saying.
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I hear you. As for me, I cannot accept the idea of "free will" based upon what the Bible teaches regarding the Gospel. In fact, one could say that the Gospel revolves around the fact that people are held captive by the Devil to do his evil will and that they cannot help themselves or prevent themselves from sinning. Hence, we need a Redeemer to lift us, the Elect, out of the hands of the Devil and place us into the controlling Hands of the Father, Son, and Spirit.

Romans 8:8-9 NLT - "That's why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God. 9 But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.)"

Either way, all people are controlled and will follow the ways of their Spiritual Father. There's just no way around the fact that this is exactly what the Bible is about. The Purpose of Christ is to set people free from the controlling ways of the Devil. Therefore, the Work of Christ is directed toward this Spiritual problem and is the Redeemer for it. And the Effect of Christ is that people [will] change to reflect the Glory of God more and more.
 
2nd Timothy Group said:
I hear you. As for me, I cannot accept the idea of "free will" based upon what the Bible teaches regarding the Gospel. In fact, one could say that the Gospel revolves around the fact that people are held captive by the Devil to do his evil will and that they cannot help themselves or prevent themselves from sinning. Hence, we need a Redeemer to lift us, the Elect, out of the hands of the Devil and place us into the controlling Hands of the Father, Son, and Spirit.

Romans 8:8-9 NLT - "That's why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God. 9 But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.)"

Either way, all people are controlled and will follow the ways of their Spiritual Father. There's just no way around the fact that this is exactly what the Bible is about. The Purpose of Christ is to set people free from the controlling ways of the Devil. Therefore, the Work of Christ is directed toward this Spiritual problem and is the Redeemer for it. And the Effect of Christ is that people [will] change to reflect the Glory of God more and more.
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What about before Jesus was born?
How did those persons get saved?
Are all atheists terrible persons?

Jesus said we will be judged by our deeds...
John 5:28-29
28Don’t be so surprised! Indeed, the time is coming when all the dead in their graves will hear the voice of God’s Son, 29and they will rise again. Those who have done good will rise to experience eternal life, and those who have continued in evil will rise to experience judgment. I can do nothing on my own. I judge as God tells me. Therefore, my judgment is just, because I carry out the will of the one who sent me, not my own will.

And look, Jesus Himself, states that His judgment will be just.
According to what John Calvin taught, God's judgment will not be just because He will not be giving to each person what that person deserves.
 
wondering said:
It may be beautiful,
but it's impossible.

All free will decisions are based on something...either morality, physical considerations, emotional, etc.

That poster is no longer active.
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I'm not sure why, but I decided to look at the content that I have "ignored." Obviously, I have placed you on "Ignore." If we can agree to write to each other with peace and love in our hearts, I would be willing to take you off "Ignore."

Deal?
 
2nd Timothy Group said:
I'm not sure why, but I decided to look at the content that I have "ignored." Obviously, I have placed you on "Ignore." If we can agree to write to each other with peace and love in our hearts, I would be willing to take you off "Ignore."

Deal?
Click to expand...
I don't know why you put me on ignore.
I always write with respect and love my brothers in Christ even if I really dislike their theology.
Am I not allowed to dislike reformed theology?
You won't convince me of your belief system and I won't convince you of mine,
but speaking about our differences could be helpful in understanding each other's views.
 
2nd Timothy Group said:
I'm not sure why, but I decided to look at the content that I have "ignored." Obviously, I have placed you on "Ignore." If we can agree to write to each other with peace and love in our hearts, I would be willing to take you off "Ignore."

Deal?
Click to expand...
God predestined you to look?
LOL
 
wondering said:
God predestined you to look?
LOL
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Okie doke. You have been taken off of that status. As for why I did what I did, I don't recall as I don't keep a record of wrongs . . . seriously. Anyway, we'll give this another try. But . . . but . . . I assure you that I am not interested in any negative talk. Let's leave that for the enemies of Christ, which we are not.
 
2nd Timothy Group said:
Okie doke. You have been taken off of that status. As for why I did what I did, I don't recall as I don't keep a record of wrongs . . . seriously. Anyway, we'll give this another try. But . . . but . . . I assure you that I am not interested in any negative talk. Let's leave that for the enemies of Christ, which we are not.
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What do you mean by negative talk?
Is my not agreeing with the reformed faith considered negative talk?
 
grumix8 said:
No, I talk something more complete we are still in the tip of the iceberg in freewill because we have to understand it thru the light in the old times of hebrew people know in hebrrew means more what we are saying.
Click to expand...

Freewill is a very old Jewish idea, or it's a very old argument between the Pharisees, Sadducees and Essenes.

The Sadducees believe in absolute freewill with no predestination. While the Essenes believe in absolute predestination, with freewill being a delusion. This lean towards today's Calvinism. Or rather Calvinists just re-picked up what left by the Essenes. The Pharisees lie in between. They believe that freewill can co-exist with God's predestination (i.e., in a way that we may not fully understand). That's why predestination is not predetermination as the Essenes might think.

The true nature of freewill is that "you are given the ability to oppose and reject God". The angels have a lesser degree of freewill as they basically made to be servants of God. According to the book of Revelation, one third of them will at the end choose to oppose God, that is, by means of breaking God's Law. Humans on the other hand are given a larger extent of freewill. As a result, there are less than one third of them will be saved in the end. More than 2/3 will oppose God. That's why humans are saved through the narrow gate.

However, there's an other factor jammed in besides the effect of freewill. The much more capable and intelligent angels can have an influence on humans, especially the 1/3 fallen angels led by Satan. As a result and under the full effort of these fallen angels and the devil, the number of humans can be saved drops to zero. Just as it is said, no one can be righteous, not even one!

After the situation being fully witnessed, earth together with everything on it shall be destroyed as the very purpose of their existence as God's harvest field is defeated when not even a single human is savable. Here comes Noah's story on how God destroys the earth with a flood.

But wait...with Jesus Christ all these are changed. Jesus' self-sacrifice makes it possible that humans are not judged by Law as the angels are. Humans instead are judged by a series of covenants applicable to them. The original number thus retains, that is instead of zero human being saved there will be less than 1/3 humans saved through the said narrow gate.

This is the calculation behind the scene. Satan is defeated and becomes a helper/footstool for God to save His Elect (i.e., His sheep) just as foretold.

Romans 8:29-30 (NIV):
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
 
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Hawkins said:
Freewill is a very old Jewish idea, or it's a very old argument between the Pharisees, Sadducees and Essenes.

The Sadducees believe in absolute freewill with no predestination. While the Essenes believe in absolute predestination, with freewill being a delusion. This lean towards today's Calvinism. Or rather Calvinists just re-picked up what left by the Essenes. The Pharisees lie in between. They believe that freewill can co-exist with God's predestination (i.e., in a way that we may not fully understand). That's why predestination is not predetermination as the Essenes might think.

The true nature of freewill is that "you are given the ability to oppose and reject God". The angels have a lesser degree of freewill as they basically made to be servants of God. According to the book of Revelation, one third of them will at the end choose to oppose God, that is, by means of breaking God's Law. Humans on the other hand are given a larger extent of freewill. As a result, there are less than one third of them will be saved in the end. More than 2/3 will oppose God. That's why humans are saved through the narrow gate.

However, there's an other factor jammed in besides the effect of freewill. The much more capable and intelligent angels can have an influence on humans, especially the 1/3 fallen angels led by Satan. As a result and under the full effort of these fallen angels and the devil, the number of humans can be saved drops to zero. Just as it is said, no one can be righteous, not even one!

After the situation being fully witnessed, earth together with everything on it shall be destroyed as the very purpose of their existence as God's harvest field is defeated when not even a single human is savable. Here comes Noah's story on how God destroys the earth with a flood.

But wait...with Jesus Christ all these are changed. Jesus' self-sacrifice makes it possible that humans are not judged by Law as the angels are. Humans instead are judged by a series of covenants applicable to them. The original number thus retains, that is instead of zero human being saved there will be less than 1/3 humans saved through the said narrow gate.

This is the calculation behind the scene.
Click to expand...
What do you think of the idea that Jesus may have been an Essene?
 
wondering said:
What do you mean by negative talk?
Is my not agreeing with the reformed faith considered negative talk?
Click to expand...

Ok, so right off from the start, you want to stay in "negative" talk. Why can't we just start over and be harmonious?

Philippians 3:13 NLT - 13 No, dear brothers and sisters, I have not achieved it, but I focus on this one thing: Forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead,
 
2nd Timothy Group said:
Ok, so right off from the start, you want to stay in "negative" talk. Why can't we just start over and be harmonious?

Philippians 3:13 NLT - 13 No, dear brothers and sisters, I have not achieved it, but I focus on this one thing: Forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead,
Click to expand...
The OP is about free will.
How do we look forward to what lies ahead?
 
2nd Timothy Group said:
I probably don't understand your question, but I have total confidence in what awaits me because I have received the Circumcision of Christ. Without it, Eternal Life is not possible.
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I believe all Christians have received the circumcision of Christ, no?

Jeremiah 4:4
4Circumcise yourselves to the Lord; remove the foreskin of your hearts, O men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem; lest my wrath go forth like fire, and burn with none to quench it, because of the evil of your deeds.”

Romans 2:29a
29No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by the Spirit.

Phillipians 3:3
For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh—
 
wondering said:
I believe all Christians have received the circumcision of Christ, no?
Click to expand...

Yes, in fact, it is Spiritual Circumcision that the Lord "Looks" for so as to know whom to "Pass over."

And here is why people hate the Gospel that I offer so much, and it is this: The Circumcision of Christ causes a person to change, for they are released from the Captivity of the Devil (to do his will - 2 Tim 2:26). Add Repentance, the gift of the Holy Spirit, and being made Right with God by believing in Christ and the Power that raised Him from the grave . . . a person [will] change just as the sun will rise the following day.

Here's the problem . . . how many people have actually changed? How many people possess and express a genuine Roman's 12:2 Transformation?

Romans 12:2 NLT - "Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect."

Romans 12:2 is a Transformation of thinking because a person will have received the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ. For, it is this specific Circumcision that brings a person from Spiritual death to Spiritual Life.

Colossians 2:13-14 NLT - "You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross."

Adding to this, Galatians 5:24 NLT - "Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there."

So, if the Sinful Nature has not only been cut away, but also nailed to the cross with Christ to be crucified, it will be impossible for a person to [not] Transform as though caterpillar to butterfly.

My point is, is that not all who claim to be True Christians have the evidence of a changed life to prove it. What it means to be a True Jew is exactly what it means to be a True Christian . . . the heart must be changed, and that this change is produced by the Holy Spirit and not the holy self-spirit. Human choice does not procure this change, but the Holy Spirit.

Romans 2:29 NLT - "No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people."

But even more! God says that He does the Circumcising!

Deuteronomy 30:6 KJV - "And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."

This is what determines if a person is a True Christian. Have they received the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ or not? This, dear friends, is the Heart of the Gospel, and we are NOT sharing it with anyone. Why?
 
2nd Timothy Group said:
I probably don't understand your question, but I have total confidence in what awaits me because I have received the Circumcision of Christ. Without it, Eternal Life is not possible.
Click to expand...
Did you receive the Circumcision of Christ of your own free will, or was this done without your consent?

wondering said:
I believe all Christians have received the circumcision of Christ, no?

Jeremiah 4:4
4Circumcise yourselves to the Lord; remove the foreskin of your hearts, O men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem; lest my wrath go forth like fire, and burn with none to quench it, because of the evil of your deeds.”

Romans 2:29a
29No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by the Spirit.

Phillipians 3:3
For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh—
Click to expand...
I believe so. I also like this verse:

Deut 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Strange that God would command us to circumcise the foreskins (our sinful natures) from our hearts, if we had no say in the matter (if we didn't have free will).
 
Moses_young said:
Did you receive the Circumcision of Christ of your own free will, or was this done without your consent?


I believe so. I also like this verse:

Deut 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Strange that God would command us to circumcise the foreskins (our sinful natures) from our hearts, if we had no say in the matter (if we didn't have free will).
Click to expand...
Amen to that!
If we did not have free will,
ALL of scripture would be pretty useless.
 
Moses_young said:
Did you receive the Circumcision of Christ of your own free will, or was this done without your consent?
Click to expand...
Hello Moses Young . . . it's good to see you here. :)

That is an amazing question. And the answer is, I did not choose that miraculous event in the Arizona Desert. I did not choose Spiritual Circumcision. Instead, it was a Spiritual gift/Blessing. I was driving down the road, feeling fear over what might happen to a friend whom I drove from Puyallup, Washington to Anthem, Arizona to "save" my friend who was being threatened with murder by the young man who had overtaken my friend's home, and life. The human fear and concern that I had for my friend turned into the Terror of the Lord (so I later found out). The Spiritual Terror of the Lord makes human panic attacks seem like kindergarten for emotions.

After a few minutes of being convinced that I was about to die (aneurysm, heart attack, etc), I realized that I needed to call out to God to somehow help me. Incredibly, the Lord defeated the Devil shortly after I began (literally) crying out to Him. The Terror of the Lord subsided as the Powerful Peace and Love of God completely crushed the evil Spirit world. Victory was won that day.

My life began to Transform after that day, but more, I realized that I had to read and do my best to fully understand what happened to me, and it was "then" that I learned about Spiritual Circumcision (and the Terror of the Lord). I suppose one question might be, "How would I know what to pray or ask for if I wasn't aware of Spiritual Circumcision and the Terror of the Lord? It was impossible that I would ask the Lord to give me this most Holy Blessing, the Promise of Abraham if I weren't taught what these "things" were?

I am so thankful. I am so grateful. There isn't a day that goes by that I do not think about that incredible day, October 22nd, 2016.

John 15:18-19 NKJV - "If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. "If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you."

Incredibly, after this experience, both sides of my "christian" family fully rejected me, as in, no communication, no contact. I am extremely lucky; so fortunate! I cannot imagine having life that more follows the Biblical life that Jesus promised to His followers.

Matthew 5:11 NET - "Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you and say all kinds of evil things about you falsely on account of me."

1 Corinthians 4:12 NET - "We do hard work, toiling with our own hands. When we are verbally abused, we respond with a blessing, when persecuted, we endure."

Incredibly, the Lord caused me to endure. I was so miserable and lonely in this life; I was ready to end my life without fear, but with great anticipation of knowing that the Lord does not cast His Pearls upon pigs, meaning that because of what happened to me in the Arizona desert, my Eternal future was well understood.

So, because of all that has happened to me, I have been pushed to depend upon the Lord . . . and no one else. If there is no one in this world to share their love, why would I ever turn my back on our Powerful, Almighty God?

Okay, that's enough. I could keep writing, and writing, and writing.

Take care my friend, and again, I am happy to see you here. :)

David
 
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