Is freewill biblical or something the modern world invented ?

[grumix8]

Then another friend named Jesustruth said :

Do we have freewill or is it biblical ?
We have freewill. God wants us to choose to love Him. and dave replied.

Originally Posted by Jesus'Truth Do we have freewill or is it biblical ? We have freewill. God wants us to choose to love Him.

Where do you get that Idea? We hate God and love our idols unless God gives us a supernatural change of heart. It's not in us to change. “And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” Deuteronomy 30:6 (KJV 1900)

 

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Brightframe replied them !

Originally Posted by Jesus'Truth Do we have freewill or is it biblical ? We have freewill. God wants us to choose to love Him.

Those God Loves shall love Him, 1 Jn 4:18-19
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
19 We love him, because he first loved us.

God first Loved His People He chose in Christ Jesus, and sooner or later, He gives them new spiritual life with a new heart to love Him Deut 30:6
And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

 

[electedbyHim]

Yes I am. Put it in God's hands and all your choices will be his.

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.[a]

A Christian cannot do that without the Holy Spirit guiding them. To put my trust in God I need His Spirit to lead me to do this.

Romans 8:5 For those who are according to the flesh, mind the things of the flesh; and those according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit;


You cannot do this on your own.

 

[electedbyHim]

Then another friend named Jesustruth said :

Do we have freewill or is it biblical ?
We have freewill. God wants us to choose to love Him. and dave replied.

Originally Posted by Jesus'Truth Do we have freewill or is it biblical ? We have freewill. God wants us to choose to love Him.

Where do you get that Idea? We hate God and love our idols unless God gives us a supernatural change of heart. It's not in us to change. “And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” Deuteronomy 30:6 (KJV 1900)

You said we have free will.

I quoted you and the bolded is not free will

 

[electedbyHim]

Ezekiel 36:26-27 “Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. “I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to do My judgments.

 

[grumix8]

You cannot be saved on your own efforts only in G-d's effort and how do you obtian them ?

Just like Jesus did. The bible says God came as the son and came without power and did so for A reason. And he came without power. Why did God came as Jesus with no power but one to pray to God. God came as man naked and could die like any other man ! He did not bring A host of angels with him. He show the whole world how he wanted man before the fall of man, praying. Jesus prayed and prayed he prayed in the morning , in the evning, and in the night.

And what he said is

Matthew 6:10
10 Your kingdom come, Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

Jesus is the second Adam he is what Adam was suppsoed to be and Jesus was not giant like adam, he had no superpowers like Superman or Samson, he had no army to prove what God wanted from man to talk to him and pray and do the 2 commands " Love thy father and they neighbor " That si all to be like Jesus simple.

Do that Electedbyhim He didn't came with A huge host of angels and ended the world he let them repent and have A choice to love him and be saved by him. You put things in God's hands and when A storm comes you don't let go of his hands and show you were faithful to him.

 

[Vaccine]

What exactly do you believe?

Does man have free will or not?

One either is controlled by sin or by Holy Spirit. If that is true , how do you have free will?

I don't understand how our will can be controlled by something when we can do otherwise.
We can choose to ignore the holy spirit. We can also choose to sin or not sin.
I view them as influences but it seems to me we ultimately determine our choices.

While I personally believe man has free will I understand the other point of view.
Like PaulChristensen pointed out there are proof texts for either position so I don't view my position as unassailable. But it's interesting discussion.

 

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Dave said this.

Martin Luther overthrew the notion of free will with this simple point.
Paul teaches, Rom. vii. and Gal. v., that there is in the saints, and in the godly, so powerful a warfare between the spirit and the flesh, that they cannot do what they would. From this warfare I argue thus:
If the nature of man be so evil, even in those who are born again of the Spirit, that it does not only not endeavour after good, but is even averse to, and militates against good, how should it endeavour after good in those who are not born again of the Spirit, and who are still in the "old man," and serve under Satan?
Luther, Martin. The Bondage of the Will (p. 162). Neeland Media LLC. Kindle Edition.

 

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Jesustruth

Originally Posted by 1689dave Where do you get that Idea?

God wants us to choose to love Him.

John 7:17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

James 4:4 You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

Isaiah 65:11-12 "But as for you who forsake the LORD and forget my holy mountain, who spread a table for Fortune and fill bowls of mixed wine for Destiny, I will destine you for the sword, and you will all bend down for the slaughter; for I called but you did not answer, I spoke but you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and chose what displeases me."

1 Peter 4:3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do--living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.

Joshua 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."

Deuteronomy 30:19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live


We have a choice.

 

[Vaccine]

A Christian cannot do that without the Holy Spirit guiding them. To put my trust in God I need His Spirit to lead me to do this.

Romans 8:5 For those who are according to the flesh, mind the things of the flesh; and those according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit;


You cannot do this on your own.

I agree we cannot do this on our own. God draws us to him (regardless of our will).

Yet, I believe once we are drawn to him, we are given a choice to accept Jesus or not.

 

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Jesustruth:

Originally Posted by 1689dave We hate God and love our idols unless God gives us a supernatural change of heart. It's not in us to change. “And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” Deuteronomy 30:6 (KJV 1900)

God circumcises our heart by our obeying His words and His words are that we repent of our sins.
Ezekiel 18:31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel?
Not all only hate God and love sin.
We are flesh and spirit.
Some people want more out of this life than pleasing their flesh with sin.

 

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Jesustruth

Originally Posted by Brightfame52 Those God Loves shall love Him, 1 Jn 4:18-19

God loves those who love Him.


John 15:10 If you obey my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commandments and remain in his love.

John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."

 

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Jesustruth:

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
Proverbs 8:17 I love those who love me,
1 Samuel 2:30 "Therefore the LORD, the God of Israel, declares: 'I promised that members of your family would minister before me forever.'But now the LORD declares: 'Far be it from me! Those who honor me I will honor, but those who despise me will be disdained.
Psalm 91:14 "Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.
Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
Psalm 145:20 The LORD watches over all who love him, but all the wicked he will destroy.
James 1:12 Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.

 

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Jesustruth said:

Originally Posted by 1689dave Martin Luther overthrew the notion of free will with this simple point. Paul teaches, Rom. vii. and Gal. v., that there is in the saints, and in the godly, so powerful a warfare between the spirit and the flesh, that they cannot do what they would. From this warfare I argue thus: If the nature of man be so evil, even in those who are born again of the Spirit, that it does not only not endeavour after good, but is even averse to, and militates against good, how should it endeavour after good in those who are not born again of the Spirit, and who are still in the "old man," and serve under Satan? Luther, Martin. The Bondage of the Will (p. 162). Neeland Media LLC. Kindle Edition.

When Paul taught about those who can't obey, he was speaking about someone under the law without faith, and he was talking about the person of the flesh who only wants to please the flesh with sin.

Not everyone only wants to do that.

 

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Brightframe replied :

Originally Posted by 1689dave Martin Luther overthrew the notion of free will with this simple point. Paul teaches, Rom. vii. and Gal. v., that there is in the saints, and in the godly, so powerful a warfare between the spirit and the flesh, that they cannot do what they would. From this warfare I argue thus: If the nature of man be so evil, even in those who are born again of the Spirit, that it does not only not endeavour after good, but is even averse to, and militates against good, how should it endeavour after good in those who are not born again of the Spirit, and who are still in the "old man," and serve under Satan? Luther, Martin. The Bondage of the Will (p. 162). Neeland Media LLC. Kindle Edition.

Yeah I agree with Luther. I read his book bondage of the will many years ago.

 

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Hannibal Flavius:

I dont think I believe in free will because there is no time as Einstein said, time is an illusion.
The past, present and future have already been, if you were on a planet 65 million light years from Earth, you could literally watch the asteroid hit earth, and you would see living dinosaurs before they died.
What will be exists already, besides that, everyone in the bible had to do and say exactly what they said and did BECAUSE IT WAS WRITTEN, THE FUTURE KNOWN BECAUSE IT EXISTS AND WAS WRITTEN TO HAPPEN AND NO EVENT COULD HAVE FAILED

 

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Jesustruth:

God made us with free will to do good or evil. When Adam sinned sin entered the world, and we became like God knowing good and evil.
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
God wants us to choose to love Him; He wants us to choose to do right.
There is eternal life with God one day without sin and sickness and death.
We have to choose what we want for ourselves now so that we can have that life with God through Jesus Christ.

 

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Dave:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus'Truth God made us with free will to do good or evil. When Adam sinned sin entered the world, and we became like God knowing good and evil. Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: God wants us to choose to love Him; He wants us to choose to do right. There is eternal life with God one day without sin and sickness and death. We have to choose what we want for ourselves now so that we can have that life with God through Jesus Christ.

 

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Jesustruth:

Here is Martin Luther's view of free will. Paul teaches, Rom. vii. and Gal. v., that there is in the saints, and in the godly, so powerful a warfare between the spirit and the flesh, that they cannot do what they would. From this warfare I argue thus:
If the nature of man be so evil, even in those who are born again of the Spirit, that it does not only not endeavour after good, but is even averse to, and militates against good, how should it endeavour after good in those who are not born again of the Spirit, and who are still in the "old man," and serve under Satan?
Luther, Martin. The Bondage of the Will (p. 162). Neeland Media LLC. Kindle Edition.

 

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Jesustruth:

Originally Posted by 1689dave Here is Martin Luther's view of free will. Paul teaches, Rom. vii. and Gal. v., that there is in the saints, and in the godly, so powerful a warfare between the spirit and the flesh, that they cannot do what they would. From this warfare I argue thus: If the nature of man be so evil, even in those who are born again of the Spirit, that it does not only not endeavour after good, but is even averse to, and militates against good, how should it endeavour after good in those who are not born again of the Spirit, and who are still in the "old man," and serve under Satan? Luther, Martin. The Bondage of the Will (p. 162). Neeland Media LLC. Kindle Edition.

Luther and Calvin and all sects from them teach wrong about the condition of humans.

We are spirit and flesh and not all only want to please their flesh with sin.

People are taught wrong about many scriptures.

For instance, Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?