Is preaching once saved always saved helpful..

[thessalonian]

Most Roman Catholics earn their salvation through works, therefore they can't understand salvation as a free gift permanently given to them by a loving God.

Nope. Not Catholic teaching at all. Works are useless if one is not saved. A man can theoretically build a skyscraper to heaven and fill it with all the poor but if he is not in a state of grace he will in fact go to hell. So salvation is not earned in Catholicism. It is a free gift. We are saved. Now works do come in to play in salvation with regard to perseverence. When we seek to do good it is like physical excercise to the body. Virtue counteracts vice. If we are doing good we are not doing evil. Now if one does not get physical excercise his body becomes weak and eventually dies. The same is true for spiritual excercise, namely charity. The spiritual body will become weak and die. It will not persevere in faith. So the works do not save, except in that they keep the spiritual body strong. Of course one needs a good diet as well. Spiritual food called the Eucharist.

It is interesting that I came from a Roman Catholic type understanding prior to being saved, as I was raised in a trinity lutheran church (similar views and consubstantiation); and I too had difficulty with salvation being given without earning it; as well as salvation being permanent without man keeping it on his own.

I


Your integrity is highly in question here as you present a staw man that has been pointed out to you and still hold to your views on Catholicism. Your such and expert on the Catechism, you should be able to point out in the Catechism where it says we keep salvation on our own apart from the grace of God. It just isn't in there. Of course I fully expect you to selectively quote.

Not one Roman Catholic or Pro-loseyoursalvation proponent has answered the meaning of this verse:

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Ephesians 4:30

No, you have seen it answered you are just hard to the answers. We are sealed with the spirit. As mentioned seals can be broken. God does not force us to stay in his grace. You have not answered how a man who was never in a tree can be said to have fallen from that tree. :

Nor have they answered which sin or sins will cause one to lose their salvation.

Why mortal sins of course.

[4] For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
[5] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,
[6] if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.

Apostacy is one of them.

 

[Solo]

Nor have they answered which sin or sins will cause one to lose their salvation.

Why mortal sins of course.

What are the mortal sins, and where can I find them in the scriptures?

 

[thessalonian]

Nor have they answered which sin or sins will cause one to lose their salvation.

Why mortal sins of course.

What are the mortal sins, and where can I find them in the scriptures?

Your asking me about scripture? :angel:

Why do I get the feeling that it is not in the sincere interest of learing something. I'll not bother.

By the way, do you think stealing a cooking and robbing a bank at gunpoint, killing five people are equivalent sins?

 

[John the Baptist]

Mortal sin is another name for the sin against the Holy Ghost. This is perhaps what Catholic's teach?? satan always has some truth mixed with error. Not that the Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is not true doctrine, because it is, but the fact is, is that Catholicism have indeed sinned this sin! They are the Revelation 17:1-5 Mother of whom???

Be sure to understand that there are some real saints in the evil membership, those who are sincere in error. Christ has a message of Truth for these ones in Revelation 18:4. He call's them my people. and warns them to LEAVE!

Now: It is the 'fold that satan has', as in Revelation 3:9. (example)
The question is, how did they become this way? What did they do to sin the sin against the Holy Ghost? James 1:15 tells what sin is. (along with 1 John 3:4) This is any sin that is known & when it is finished (fully MATURED) it bringeth forth death. (this is the death of Obadiah 16) False doctrine when known & is still practiced, in time becomes finished. Try 1 John 5:16-17 for more on this.

When sin is known, when the Holy Spirit convicts us of it (see Romans 8:14) and we will not 'follow His leading', we in time will quench & Grieve Him to the point where He cannot ever again reach us. Think of one stealing for the first time, if he does it over & over again, in time it is easly done, as with all and any sin! And finally we come to think that we can just not wory about it anymore! All sin is forgiveable by Christ alone, but in time when one will not confess & forsake, it becomes in the end, a finished sin! (see Genesis. 6:3's last part of the verse)

If you look at the mother 'whore' THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH the Word of God states, you can see that there is hardly any way that they can be reached. (if they believe their doctrines. infallible pope over the Word of God) But the FOLD ITSELF IS FINISHED! Psalms 19:13 is another good explanation of what presumptuous sins lead to. THE GREAT TRANSGRESSION is what. See Matthew 12:31-32.

---John

 

[Solo]

Nor have they answered which sin or sins will cause one to lose their salvation.

Why mortal sins of course.

What are the mortal sins, and where can I find them in the scriptures?

Your asking me about scripture? :angel:

Why do I get the feeling that it is not in the sincere interest of learing something. I'll not bother.

By the way, do you think stealing a cooking and robbing a bank at gunpoint, killing five people are equivalent sins?

Stealing a cookie or murdering five people is the same as breaking all commandments, and the man who teaches men to break the least of the commandments will be called least in the kingdom of heaven (if he is saved) according to Jesus.

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
James 2:10-11

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:17-20

 

[Solo]

Mortal sin is another name for the sin against the Holy Ghost. This is perhaps what Catholic's teach?? satan always has some truth mixed with error. Not that the Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is not true doctrine, because it is, but the fact is, is that Catholicism have indeed sinned this sin! They are the Revelation 17:1-5 Mother of whom???

Be sure to understand that there are some real saints in the evil membership, those who are sincere in error. Christ has a message of Truth for these ones in Revelation 18:4. He call's them my people. and warns them to LEAVE!

Now: It is the 'fold that satan has', as in Revelation 3:9. (example)
The question is, how did they become this way? What did they do to sin the sin against the Holy Ghost? James 1:15 tells what sin is. (along with 1 John 3:4) This is any sin that is known & when it is finished (fully MATURED) it bringeth forth death. (this is the death of Obadiah 16) False doctrine when known & is still practiced, in time becomes finished. Try 1 John 5:16-17 for more on this.

When sin is known, when the Holy Spirit convicts us of it (see Romans 8:14) and we will not 'follow His leading', we in time will quench & Grieve Him to the point where He cannot ever again reach us. Think of one stealing for the first time, if he does it over & over again, in time it is easly done, as with all and any sin! And finally we come to think that we can just not wory about it anymore! All sin is forgiveable by Christ alone, but in time when one will not confess & forsake, it becomes in the end, a finished sin! (see Genesis. 6:3's last part of the verse)

If you look at the mother 'whore' THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH the Word of God states, you can see that there is hardly any way that they can be reached. (if they believe their doctrines. infallible pope over the Word of God) But the FOLD ITSELF IS FINISHED! Psalms 19:13 is another good explanation of what presumptuous sins lead to. THE GREAT TRANSGRESSION is what. See Matthew 12:31-32.

---John

So then, Jesus didn't die for every sin of the born of the Spirit believer. He only died for the sins that the believer confesses, therefore the free gift is only a gift as long as the receiver does exactly as he is told. Hopefully, all born of the Spirit believers keep a log book of their sins so that they can have them all confessed and forgiven so that Jesus doesn't have to be crucified a second, third, fourth, etc. etc time since his first death was not good enough to pay for all sins of the believers.

And the Holy Spirit must not be too powerful if a man can break the seal of the Holy Spirit.........and "sealed until the day of redemption" doesn't mean much.

NOT!!!

Perhaps next time God will know better, and at the moment a person repents, believes, and follows Jesus, he will be given his new creature body which is immortal and uncorruptable. I wish he would have been a little smarter. :o

 

[John the Baptist]

Stealing a cookie or murdering five people is the same as breaking all commandments, and the man who teaches men to break the least of the commandments will be called least in the kingdom of heaven (if he is saved) according to Jesus.

***
John here: Your assumption part is correct as I see it. James 2:8-12

The question part is not, as I see it. The saints will judge the world.
1 Corinthians 6:2-3. This will be the Execution stage of these ones already judged lost. When Christ comes, He brings His reward with Him. Eternal life or eternal death.

The only question asked of the professed ones at Christ second coming is found in Ecclesiastes 12:13-14. If they have flunked their Whole Duty? they will come up in the second resurection to die again, and will suffer according to their Executional punishment. :

While the saint's judge the ones you quote about, we see that they are equal to the least of the lost, they will only be in heaven by the RECORD BOOKS. See Luke 12:47-48 for their punishment & Revelation 20:12 to see that they are D-E-A-D. And being judged by record books!
***

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
James 2:10-11

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:17-20
_________________
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God...

 

[Solo]

You have a keen habit of twisting scripture to fit your perception.

Do you have any unconfessed sins? Have you told any lies that you haven't confessed? Have you submitted fully to the commandments of God? Have you become angry and sinned? Has any perverse communication come out of your mouth? Have you been guilty of foolish jesting? Are you free from sin each and every day?

Now that you have seen that breaking one commandment causes one to break all, does the least sin in a born of the Spirit believer's life, unconfessed, send them to hell? If not, which sin sends one to hell? Does it take two sins? or Three?

Did Jesus just die for the sins that you confess to him, or did he die for all of your sins, past, present, and future?

Does God's grace just cover the sins that you confess, or does God's grace cover all of your sins?

 

[thessalonian]

Stealing a cookie or murdering five people is the same as breaking all commandments, and the man who teaches men to break the least of the commandments will be called least in the kingdom of heaven (if he is saved) according to Jesus.

So it is not going to get a Christian damned for stealing a cookie and neither is it if he goes on a murder and rape spree. The BTK killer is just fine? He was the president of a Lutheran Church you know. Oh I suppose you might say that murder and rape indicate that one wasn't saved in the first place. Well then I guess if one steals a cookie he wasn't saved in the first place. They aren't equal are they JTB. Admit it. You would question someones salvation if they murdered someone but if you saw them snitch a cookie or two I bet you would not say, "oh you better get saved". Be honest.

 

[Solo]

Stealing a cookie or murdering five people is the same as breaking all commandments, and the man who teaches men to break the least of the commandments will be called least in the kingdom of heaven (if he is saved) according to Jesus.

So it is not going to get a Christian damned for stealing a cookie and neither is it if he goes on a murder and rape spree. The BTK killer is just fine? He was the president of a Lutheran Church you know. Oh I suppose you might say that murder and rape indicate that one wasn't saved in the first place. Well then I guess if one steals a cookie he wasn't saved in the first place. They aren't equal are they JTB. Admit it. You would question someones salvation if they murdered someone but if you saw them snitch a cookie or two I bet you would not say, "oh you better get saved". Be honest.

All the BTK Killer has to do is attend mass and say a couple of hail marys and he'll be just fine, right?

 

[thessalonian]

All the BTK Killer has to do is attend mass and say a couple of hail marys and he'll be just fine, right?

I see your avoiding the questoin and it's implications with sacasm and jabs. Actually if he went to Mass and partook of the Eucharist, he would be more damned. See 1 Cor 11:27. Confession is good for the soul however.

Answer the question. Would you question the salvatoin of someone who stold a cookie? Do you question the salvation of the BTK killer? Be honest. The sins are not equal are they.

 

[Solo]

All the BTK Killer has to do is attend mass and say a couple of hail marys and he'll be just fine, right?

I see your avoiding the questoin and it's implications with sacasm and jabs. Actually if he went to Mass and partook of the Eucharist, he would be more damned. See 1 Cor 11:27. Confession is good for the soul however.

Answer the question. Would you question the salvatoin of someone who stold a cookie? Do you question the salvation of the BTK killer? Be honest. The sins are not equal are they.

You reap what you sow dear friend.

I believe that all sins are covered by the blood of Jesus Christ, whether it be stealing, murder, adultery, etc.
If a man is born of the Spirit and is redeemed from his sins, then he will stand in the kingdom of Heaven with his redeemer. Do I believe that the BTK killer is saved? No. How do I know? You can tell by his fruits. Did Peter sin after his salvation? Did Paul sin after his salvation? How many believers have not sinned since their salvation? What sin will cause one to lose his salvation? Stealing, Murder, Adultery, Coveting your neighbors property? Here are seven acts that are an abomination to the Lord:

A proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.


Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. Matthew 12:31

Are all sins equal? Would Jesus have died on the cross to redeem mankind if the sin was stealing? Would Jesus have died on the cross to redeem mankind if the sin was murder?

The payment is equal whether the sin is or not.

 

[John the Baptist]

Most Roman Catholics earn their salvation through works, therefore they can't understand salvation as a free gift permanently given to them by a loving God.

It is interesting that I came from a Roman Catholic type understanding prior to being saved, as I was raised in a trinity lutheran church (similar views and consubstantiation); and I too had difficulty with salvation being given without earning it; as well as salvation being permanent without man keeping it on his own. I have met some saved Lutherans and Roman Catholics who understand salvation as being given by God as a free gift to all believers as the sacrifice was a once for all event. All sins were paid for at the cross of Jesus Christ. It took me about three years after I was saved to understand the salvation of God to His children (Not all are his children).

Not one Roman Catholic or Pro-loseyoursalvation proponent has answered the meaning of this verse:

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, /whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Ephesians 4:30

Nor have they answered which sin or sins will cause one to lose their salvation.

******
John here: Is this not your post??? (I have altered it for discussion)
You jump all over the place like a catholic jesuit! 2 Corinthians 4:2
What on earth has 'my' life got to do with the [ETERNAL GOSPEL that was QUOTED] by you??

Divide the simple True verse into two. The first part is ETERNAL COVENANT LAW! Grieve NOT! (QUENCH) How does one Grieve the one who Inspired the Word of God?? 1 John 3:4 is SIN, ANY SIN! Romans 8:14 is a Born Again BELIEVER! [LED] is the WORDS, WORD!!

NOW: "IF" you FOLLOW ON, you are 'sealed unto the day of redemption". That is the EVERLASTING GOSPEL!! (It covers all Bible! Matthew 4:4 & 2 Timothy 3:16 +) Being led is your free choice, & is CONDITIONAL COVENANT!

You come on like gang/buster's, yet you are found in Matthew 25 as 'foolish'. You don't even know what you posted up! Eph. 4:30! :roll:

If it was Paul who penned the Word? He too was 'pricked' by the Holy Spirit. Notice that Stephens attire was laid at the foot of Saul, when Steven was stoned to death. Saul must have been at Stephen's mockery of a trial? Read what Saul heard Stephen, who was filled with the Holy Ghost, say?? "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye." Acts 7:51-54 (in part) But you do get the point, huh?? NO???

Well then, it was this same Saul that was later on Born Again into PAUL, that penned... "Which is the EARNEST of our inheritance until the REDEMPTION of the purchased possession.." (again ETERNAL CONDITIONAL!) It does not take a rocket scientist to understand what the USA understands as EARNEST money paid down on a business deal. In time there is a CLOSING, "IF" there is no [ETERNAL COVENANT] default. Hebrews 13:20. But 'IF' there is, then the Earnest money is forfeited.

And there are a 'gang' of Inspiration to convince a child of God of this. See Hebrews 6:1-6 And YES, these ones were MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST!! AND HAD TASTED OF THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME! & 2 Peter 2:19-22 & Revelation 22:18-19 & on & on!!!

Now: One can accept the Word of God, or one can grieve & quench it's Inspirational provider, huh? Either me or you?? Yet, there comes a time when He will say, NO MORE! : Genesis 6:3 & Matthew 25:10's ex/Virgins!!

And I said a child of God?? Yes, see 1 John 4:6.

 

[thessalonian]

All the BTK Killer has to do is attend mass and say a couple of hail marys and he'll be just fine, right?

I see your avoiding the questoin and it's implications with sacasm and jabs. Actually if he went to Mass and partook of the Eucharist, he would be more damned. See 1 Cor 11:27. Confession is good for the soul however.

Answer the question. Would you question the salvatoin of someone who stold a cookie? Do you question the salvation of the BTK killer? Be honest. The sins are not equal are they.

You reap what you sow dear friend.

I believe that all sins are covered by the blood of Jesus Christ, whether it be stealing, murder, adultery, etc.
If a man is born of the Spirit and is redeemed from his sins, then he will stand in the kingdom of Heaven with his redeemer. Do I believe that the BTK killer is saved? No. How do I know? You can tell by his fruits. Did Peter sin after his salvation? Did Paul sin after his salvation? How many believers have not sinned since their salvation? What sin will cause one to lose his salvation? Stealing, Murder, Adultery, Coveting your neighbors property? Here are seven acts that are an abomination to the Lord:

A proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.


Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. Matthew 12:31

Are all sins equal? Would Jesus have died on the cross to redeem mankind if the sin was stealing? Would Jesus have died on the cross to redeem mankind if the sin was murder?

The payment is equal whether the sin is or not.

All sin needed to be redeemed but even though you won't admit it because it is Catholic doctrine, your post proves that there are some sins worse than others. It does not prove they are equal to say that Christ redeemed them all. Thank you. Is a cut on the lip equal to a knife wound to the stomach just because they both need to be healed? One is obviously more life threatening than the other. Is a cold as bad as pnemonia, though both need to be cured? Is not the latter more life threatening? Interesting that Christ commonly compared sin to bodily ailments.

Blessings

 

[Solo]

Most Roman Catholics earn their salvation through works, therefore they can't understand salvation as a free gift permanently given to them by a loving God.

It is interesting that I came from a Roman Catholic type understanding prior to being saved, as I was raised in a trinity lutheran church (similar views and consubstantiation); and I too had difficulty with salvation being given without earning it; as well as salvation being permanent without man keeping it on his own. I have met some saved Lutherans and Roman Catholics who understand salvation as being given by God as a free gift to all believers as the sacrifice was a once for all event. All sins were paid for at the cross of Jesus Christ. It took me about three years after I was saved to understand the salvation of God to His children (Not all are his children).

Not one Roman Catholic or Pro-loseyoursalvation proponent has answered the meaning of this verse:

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, /whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Ephesians 4:30

Nor have they answered which sin or sins will cause one to lose their salvation.

******
John here: Is this not your post??? (I have altered it for discussion)
You jump all over the place like a catholic jesuit! 2 Corinthians 4:2
What on earth has 'my' life got to do with the [ETERNAL GOSPEL that was QUOTED] by you??

Divide the simple True verse into two. The first part is ETERNAL COVENANT LAW! Grieve NOT! (QUENCH) How does one Grieve the one who Inspired the Word of God?? 1 John 3:4 is SIN, ANY SIN! Romans 8:14 is a Born Again BELIEVER! [LED] is the WORDS, WORD!!

NOW: "IF" you FOLLOW ON, you are 'sealed unto the day of redemption". That is the EVERLASTING GOSPEL!! (It covers all Bible! Matthew 4:4 & 2 Timothy 3:16 +) Being led is your free choice, & is CONDITIONAL COVENANT!

You come on like gang/buster's, yet you are found in Matthew 25 as 'foolish'. You don't even know what you posted up! Eph. 4:30! :roll:

If it was Paul who penned the Word? He too was 'pricked' by the Holy Spirit. Notice that Stephens attire was laid at the foot of Saul, when Steven was stoned to death. Saul must have been at Stephen's mockery of a trial? Read what Saul heard Stephen, who was filled with the Holy Ghost, say?? "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye." Acts 7:51-54 (in part) But you do get the point, huh?? NO???

Well then, it was this same Saul that was later on Born Again into PAUL, that penned... "Which is the EARNEST of our inheritance until the REDEMPTION of the purchased possession.." (again ETERNAL CONDITIONAL!) It does not take a rocket scientist to understand what the USA understands as EARNEST money paid down on a business deal. In time there is a CLOSING, "IF" there is no [ETERNAL COVENANT] default. Hebrews 13:20. But 'IF' there is, then the Earnest money is forfeited.

And there are a 'gang' of Inspiration to convince a child of God of this. See Hebrews 6:1-6 And YES, these ones were MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST!! AND HAD TASTED OF THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME! & 2 Peter 2:19-22 & Revelation 22:18-19 & on & on!!!

Now: One can accept the Word of God, or one can grieve & quench it's Inspirational provider, huh? Either me or you?? Yet, there comes a time when He will say, NO MORE! : Genesis 6:3 & Matthew 25:10's ex/Virgins!!

And I said a child of God?? Yes, see 1 John 4:6.

And do you continue to sin? Is there unconfessed sin in your life? If you sin, are you still going to enter into the Kingdom of God? Which sins will keep you from entering the Kingdom of God; stealing, adultery, murdering, disobedience to the Word?

When a believer quenches the Holy Spirit, does the Holy Spirit leave the believer?
Please back with scriptures, and if you don't mind cut and paste them with reference into your answer.
Thanks

 

[Solo]

All the BTK Killer has to do is attend mass and say a couple of hail marys and he'll be just fine, right?

I see your avoiding the questoin and it's implications with sacasm and jabs. Actually if he went to Mass and partook of the Eucharist, he would be more damned. See 1 Cor 11:27. Confession is good for the soul however.

Answer the question. Would you question the salvatoin of someone who stold a cookie? Do you question the salvation of the BTK killer? Be honest. The sins are not equal are they.

You reap what you sow dear friend.

I believe that all sins are covered by the blood of Jesus Christ, whether it be stealing, murder, adultery, etc.
If a man is born of the Spirit and is redeemed from his sins, then he will stand in the kingdom of Heaven with his redeemer. Do I believe that the BTK killer is saved? No. How do I know? You can tell by his fruits. Did Peter sin after his salvation? Did Paul sin after his salvation? How many believers have not sinned since their salvation? What sin will cause one to lose his salvation? Stealing, Murder, Adultery, Coveting your neighbors property? Here are seven acts that are an abomination to the Lord:

A proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.


Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. Matthew 12:31

Are all sins equal? Would Jesus have died on the cross to redeem mankind if the sin was stealing? Would Jesus have died on the cross to redeem mankind if the sin was murder?

The payment is equal whether the sin is or not.

All sin needed to be redeemed but even though you won't admit it because it is Catholic doctrine, your post proves that there are some sins worse than others. It does not prove they are equal to say that Christ redeemed them all. Thank you. Is a cut on the lip equal to a knife wound to the stomach just because they both need to be healed? One is obviously more life threatening than the other. Is a cold as bad as pnemonia, though both need to be cured? Is not the latter more life threatening? Interesting that Christ commonly compared sin to bodily ailments.

Blessings

I do not accept Catholic doctrine from folks who can not back it up with scripture. My post shows that sin is sin and must be paid for, either by Jesus Christ or by each individual. The wages of sin is death. All sinners will die, but since Jesus gave himself a ransom for sin and resurrected, all believers will be resurrected on the day of his return. Those that are unbelievers will be judged into an eternal judgment by the Word of God.

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
James 2:10

I read from your post that you agree with me, in that, Jesus would have died on the cross to redeem mankind if the sin was stealing a cookie or murder?

That would bring us to the context of this thread. What sin is it that will take the salvation away from a believer? And What does the scripture teach about a believer being sealed unto the day of redemption by the Holy Spirit?

 

[John the Baptist]

Most Roman Catholics earn their salvation through works, therefore they can't understand salvation as a free gift permanently given to them by a loving God.

It is interesting that I came from a Roman Catholic type understanding prior to being saved, as I was raised in a trinity lutheran church (similar views and consubstantiation); and I too had difficulty with salvation being given without earning it; as well as salvation being permanent without man keeping it on his own. I have met some saved Lutherans and Roman Catholics who understand salvation as being given by God as a free gift to all believers as the sacrifice was a once for all event. All sins were paid for at the cross of Jesus Christ. It took me about three years after I was saved to understand the salvation of God to His children (Not all are his children).

Not one Roman Catholic or Pro-loseyoursalvation proponent has answered the meaning of this verse:

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, /whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Ephesians 4:30

Nor have they answered which sin or sins will cause one to lose their salvation.

******
John here: Is this not your post??? (I have altered it for discussion)
You jump all over the place like a catholic jesuit! 2 Corinthians 4:2
What on earth has 'my' life got to do with the [ETERNAL GOSPEL that was QUOTED] by you??

Divide the simple True verse into two. The first part is ETERNAL COVENANT LAW! Grieve NOT! (QUENCH) How does one Grieve the one who Inspired the Word of God?? 1 John 3:4 is SIN, ANY SIN! Romans 8:14 is a Born Again BELIEVER! [LED] is the WORDS, WORD!!

NOW: "IF" you FOLLOW ON, you are 'sealed unto the day of redemption". That is the EVERLASTING GOSPEL!! (It covers all Bible! Matthew 4:4 & 2 Timothy 3:16 +) Being led is your free choice, & is CONDITIONAL COVENANT!

You come on like gang/buster's, yet you are found in Matthew 25 as 'foolish'. You don't even know what you posted up! Eph. 4:30! :roll:

If it was Paul who penned the Word? He too was 'pricked' by the Holy Spirit. Notice that Stephens attire was laid at the foot of Saul, when Steven was stoned to death. Saul must have been at Stephen's mockery of a trial? Read what Saul heard Stephen, who was filled with the Holy Ghost, say?? "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye." Acts 7:51-54 (in part) But you do get the point, huh?? NO???

Well then, it was this same Saul that was later on Born Again into PAUL, that penned... "Which is the EARNEST of our inheritance until the REDEMPTION of the purchased possession.." (again ETERNAL CONDITIONAL!) It does not take a rocket scientist to understand what the USA understands as EARNEST money paid down on a business deal. In time there is a CLOSING, "IF" there is no [ETERNAL COVENANT] default. Hebrews 13:20. But 'IF' there is, then the Earnest money is forfeited.

And there are a 'gang' of Inspiration to convince a child of God of this. See Hebrews 6:1-6 And YES, these ones were MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST!! AND HAD TASTED OF THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME! & 2 Peter 2:19-22 & Revelation 22:18-19 & on & on!!!

Now: One can accept the Word of God, or one can grieve & quench it's Inspirational provider, huh? Either me or you?? Yet, there comes a time when He will say, NO MORE! : Genesis 6:3 & Matthew 25:10's ex/Virgins!!

And I said a child of God?? Yes, see 1 John 4:6.

And do you continue to sin? Is there unconfessed sin in your life? If you sin, are you still going to enter into the Kingdom of God? Which sins will keep you from entering the Kingdom of God; stealing, adultery, murdering, disobedience to the Word?

When a believer quenches the Holy Spirit, does the Holy Spirit leave the believer?
Please back with scriptures, and if you don't mind cut and paste them with reference into your answer.
Thanks

*******
John here: It is just my observation, but if you read the above at all? you do a lousy job. You would make a good catholic as I see it, Whatever??

 

[Solo]

Just answer the questions John.

And do you continue to sin? Is there unconfessed sin in your life? If you sin, are you still going to enter into the Kingdom of God? Which sins will keep you from entering the Kingdom of God; stealing, adultery, murdering, disobedience to the Word?

When a believer quenches the Holy Spirit, does the Holy Spirit leave the believer?
Please back with scriptures, and if you don't mind cut and paste them with reference into your answer.
Thanks

 

[John the Baptist]

John here:
Sin is sin! There is a start & a FINISHED END! (see James 1:15) There is a SIN NOT UNTO DEATH, its starting point! & there is a sin UNTO DEATH. It's MATURE END! (see 1 John 5:16-17) And any one sin in its start will do the 'd'evils trick of the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, if pursued to its FINISH. Try Cain in Gen. 4:7!

And yes, this sin is in ones FULL SIGHT AND KNOWN KNOWLEDGE. And that implies that yes, the Christian ones with the most light can become the quickest in finished guilt! See Luke 12:47-48. (these verses are from an old mans memory, so... give me some space to correct if need be, ok?

Otherwise how could God's ex/covering cherub fall from grace? (Lucifer)
Or did God make a mistake in Hebrews. 13:20's verse of EVERLASTING COVENANT (10 Commandment Law) Or the EVERLASTING GOSPEL of Revelation 14:6's first part? (Christ's Righteousness & Plan of Salvation) And who is it that is to be judged saved or lost first? See 1 Peter 4:17.

 

[John the Baptist]

The Holy Spirit was active in creation as seen in Genesis 1:1. Yet, even in the old testament Christ (as God) was with His chosen ones. He was in the cloud by day & a pillar of fire night. Paul tells us that he would not want us to be ignorant! See 1 Corinthians 10:1-3! And in Nehemiah 9:6-15 we see there something that needs reading & study! We see that it was this Christ that came down on Mt. Sinai and gave the ten commandments & madest know the holy Sabbath, (+, and notice!) and commandanded them precepts, statutes, and laws, [BY THE HAND OF MOSES:"] And read Acts 7:38!

All of this was done by Christ here on earth in the Old Testament!
Now: When Christ sent the Holy Spirit back to earth after His resurrection, His primary duty was to uphold Christ! Jesus stated that He would not testify of Himself.

Now for the 'MATURE' unpardonable sin?? Noah preached for an 120 years! See Genesis 6:3. The Ark's door of probation did what? The DOOR WAS SHUT! They were given ample time. And in Gen. 4:7 we see Christ the Word (that was on earth) speak at least by voice to Cain. Cain was told that all that he needed to do was.. 'DO WELL' and that he would be accepted. This was his MATURE face to face encounter against Obedience to Christ. And who became Cain's desire from then on? Probation closed for Cain!

One could go on & on, including Matt. 25's Virgin Fold seen with a probational [CLOSED DOOR]! But, perhaps King Saul is an 'eye' opener for some? He started out very humble. Then as he matured, he made wrong decisions and matured in the opposite direction. But notice 1 Sam. 10:6
"And the Spirit of the Lord [will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, AND THOU SHALT BE TURNED INTO ANOTHER MAN." And in verse 9 it says that God gave him [ANOTHER HEART]! See 2 Cor. 3:3 & Heb. 10:15-16.

Converted for sure! Yet, we hear all kinds of 'saved forever'! Or once saved always saved! Or, ONLY believe! But, so far with not even considering the earlier passages, Saul looked to be in that class of ones, huh?

First, again remember the message from Christ to Cain. He rejected the Word of Christ in 'maturity'. But the important issue is who it was that NOW took over his rule? (whose DESIRE had he now-satan) Ok, back to King Saul. We saw that he became a changed man, BORN AGAIN! And this can ONLY happen by Obedience! See Acts 5:32-Matt. 28:20.

In 1 Sam. 16:14 we see the COMPLETE TRUTH! Everlasting Gospel & Everlasting Covenant are C-O-N-D-I-T-I-O-N-A-L!! (See Rev. 14:6 & Heb. 13:20 for EVERLASTING)
The 'inspired Word says' "But the Spirit of the Lord [DEPARTED] from Saul, *AND AN [EVIL SPIRIT] ... troubled him"

One needs to read all of Sauls life history to see why Saul was rejected. Chapter 28 is a real eye/opener for the sincere Christian. Read from verse 3 on. Samuel, the prophet of the Lord was dead & Saul was in deep trouble! But God would have NOTHING to do with Saul, so who did he [now] go to for advice? His probation was over & he had chosen a 'new' leader! (See Rev. 3:9 for new leaders)

Hope this helps?
---John