Is preaching once saved always saved helpful..

[John the Baptist]

satan a once saved created being is immortal?? Scripture please? ---John

What was satan saved from if he was once saved? Scripture Please!

******
John here: You are telling me that Christ answered my question by doing as you have done??? OK, whatever.

And Lucifer was created perfect before he committed the sin against the Holy Ghost. Ezekiel 28:15 But, that to is left for whatever ones desire is?? Saved from what you ask???? 2 Corinthians 4:1-2.

And clearing up your post for you being Born Again?? What proof was that? The ones of Hebrews 11:13 were said to be dead in the faith! (they had died faithful!!) And the Revelation 20:12 ones surely are judged by the books! And what is the tree of life for as seen in Revelation 22:14 if all of Christ's creation do not have [conditional] immortality!!

Then you are telling me that God had Lucifer around in eternity?? Come on, do you know what immortal means?? NO CREATED OR ANY OTHER BEGINNING!!

And your sins are blotted out??? When? It seems that the time 'of refreshing' had already came the first time in Acts, huh? See Acts 3:19

 

[von]

Gee, I think the person made a mistake, as we all know that the angels can't be saved.

 

[Solo]

Lewis- for once i would have to somewhat agree with the Catholics. You can not be saved and continue to live in sin.Here are werses for you. Luke 9:62...Gal 1:6...Gal. 4:9...Heb.10:38...2 Pet.2:20...Rev. 2:4...Rev. 3:21...Rev.:19. No, we are not perfect and we are not without sin but we can not live a life of sinfullness and still make Heaven our home. There are lots of stories in the Bible that are examples of this. I think one was previously stated in this thread. The Bible says without holiness no man shall see God and He wasn't talking to sinners since sinners are not holy.

At what point in the Christian walk does one not sin any longer, and what sins does a believer commit that is not forgiven. Can a person be born again, and then be unborn again, and then be born again, and then be unborn again, etc. ?

On whose holiness does one get to heaven, one's own holiness (which is filthy rags) or Jesus' holiness. Does not the Bible teach that Jesus righteousness is imputed to those of faith?

It is important that a believer persevere in his walk of sanctification, but it is Jesus' work on the cross that has paid the debt of sins of those that believe and are born again.

 

[John the Baptist]

John here: See if this re/posting helps?

Jesus said, "Therefore I tell you, people will be forgiven for every sin and blasphemy, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." (Matthew 12: 31-32 NRSV)

Can anyone give me examples of this unforgiveable sin? :-? Thanks!

**********
Hi, John here:
(Israel of old for one! See Matt. 23:38 & Rev. 3:16-17 for another being 'spewed out'! Sickening. Both are complete denominations)

First: All sin is not the sin unto death! See 1 John 5:16-17. But, 'Christian' mankind must first have a starting point with the 'earnest' of the Holy Spirit given. And before the 'fall' (heaven included) ALL were perfect with NO sin. These were to be tested! (tree in the 'midst' of the garden) Even this fall, was not the sin unto death.

The first example is found in Gen. 4:6-7 for the sin unto death. (on earth) It was the Word (Christ) speaking to Cain. There was no record of Cain not being faithful up to this point? But here we see a 'mature' professed Christian person talking to the Master face to face. (or at least the fullness of Word to word) Remember that he was saved by the offering of the Lamb sacrifice 'in Faith' up until this time.

Notice the above in this setting of James 1:15? Any & all sin is sin, yet, it is not the 'FINISHED' [END] at the START! When one makes a MATURE DECISION to violate the Word of God, this is moving towards the (going towards the full cup) sin unto death. We are 'LED' of the Holy Spirit when converted, (Born Again) yet, the FREEDOM of choice is always ours to use! If we steal?? then, we sin. This is still not the sin unto death! Yet, if we steal again & again, we are grieving the one who is trying to lead us! See Rom. 8:14.

Now: One that is a MATURE Christian does not apply this to just any sin ALONE! The worst of offenders of the Master's Word are [professed] Ministers! (see Luke 12:47-48) Not only do they pass the boundaries of their probation, but they will be judged by far the worse in hells punishment! This is called the sin of OMISSION. (THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING, or at least most do) Their full cup comes at the passing of the boundaries of the Holy Spirit's trying to 'lead' them to get them to do a 'correcting' of KNOWN FALSE DOCTRINE & OPENLY DONE AND UN/REPENTED SIN IN THEIR DENOMINATIONS! Such as Sunday sacredness.

Read Gen. 6:3 And you will see that the Holy Spirits work is to [STRIVE WITH MAN!] (both the saved, once saved, & the never saved) Yet, it is God that says that.. "MY SPIRIT WILL NOT ALWAYS STRIVE WITH MAN". When MATURE REBELLION comes, it is not possible for God to reach us! See Hebrews. 6:6. If you read ONLY the [POSITIVES] first, you will see that these ones were at one time MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST!

Peter in 'Inspiration' speaks the Words VERY CLEAR! See 2 Peter 2:19-22.
Verse 19 starts out with these ones 'identification'! They PROMISE THEM LIBERTY. That is what 'Once Saved Always Saved' bottom line is! Then Peter tells us that it is not truth! The 'Word' of course is seen in verse 20, that of being OVERCOME. Again right back to James 1:15, 1 John 5:16-17 & Cain's MATURE dis/obedience.

The simple test for us is.. "IF YE LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS". (All of them) In John 15 Christ told us an ETERNAL TRUTH, (other worlds as well!) He says.. "WITHOUT ME YE CAN DO NOTHING". But, if we do not keep His commandments, how can we be, but WITHOUT HIM???

Hope this helps? Psalms 19:13 is another good 'insight' for understanding what presumptuous OPEN sin endangers! We might never know how close David & Saul (Paul) came to this ending? And another?? Last one :fadein:!
King Saul was given the Holy Spirit of God. And latter on the Holy Spirit was removed from King Saul. Saul had made an excellent start! Yet his FINISH was MATURE with the 'sin unto death'. :

---John

 

[von]

Solo- People do not walk in sin daily once they start doing the will of the Father. If we keep the two greatest commandments, I do not believe that we will willful sin. Somewhere along the way there has to be repentance, a turning away from. You are right, it is Jesus work on the cross that saves us, however you can't receive forgiveness for something that you do not repent of.
Look, why would a person want to live in continual sin when Jesus gave His life for him. That would be a mockery. If you choose to turn your back on God then that is the choice you make. Some people must be more willing than others to take that chance, as for me, I'll continue to grow stronger and closer to the LOrd and know that as long as I am striving to be like Jesus, then yes, I am eternally secure.
I know that you can turn your back on God because I have done it myself and no one can tell me I wasn't truly saved. That would really be judging someone.

 

[John the Baptist]

First we are God's creation! All of us! We have a 'brain' that responds to the Holy Spirit one way or the other!! All of God's CREATION have this FREE CHOICE! We are told that the Lords Holy Spirit will not [ALWAYS *STRIVE WITH MAN]! (FACT) See Gen. 6:3. None of Gods creation is doing his [own] thing. See Eph. 6:12, or the mature END result as seen in Gen. 4:7's [free choice]. Christ asks Cain a question, do you care enough about your question to read what Christ told him??

Now: "[*SEE], I HAVE SET BEFORE THEE THIS DAY *LIFE AND GOOD, AND *DEATH AND EVIL: IN THAT I COMMAND THEE THIS DAY TO LOVE THE LORD THY GOD, TO WALK IN HIS WAYS, AND TO TO KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS ...

BUT, (conditional free choice like the 'tree' of testing for a [perfect] Adam & Eve before they fell) if thin heart TURN AWAY, so that THOU WILT NOT HEAR, BUT SHALL BE [DRAWN AWAY], and worship other gods, and serve them; (see James 1:15!)

I DENOUNCE UNTO YOU THIS DAY, THAT YE SHALL SURELY PERISH, ...
(again notice!)
I CALL HEAVEN AND EARTH TO [RECORD THIS DAY] AGAINST YOU, THAT *[I HAVE SET BEFORE YOU *LIFE AND DEATH], BLESSING AND CURSING: [THEREFORE *CHOOSE LIFE THAT BOTH THOU AND THY SEED *MAY LIVE]. ... That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest OBEY HIS VOICE, and that thou mayest [CLEAVE UNTO HIM: FOR HE IS LIFE,] and the length of days..." (Deut. 30:15 on in part & with my emphasis)

"But when the [righteous] turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, [shall he live?]

All his righteousness [SHALL NOT BE MENTIONED: IN HIS TRESPASS THAT HE HATH TRESPASSED, AND IN HIS SIN THAT HE HATH SINNED, *IN THEM SHALL HE DIE].

...IS NOT MY WAY EQUAL? (???? ) When a RIGHTEOUS MAN TURNETH AWAY FROM HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND COMMITTETH INIQUITY, AND DIETH IN THEM; [*FOR HIS INIQUITY THAT HE HATH DONE *SHALL HE DIE].

AGAIN, WHEN THE WICKED MAN TURNETH AWAY FROM HIS WICKEDNESS THAT HE HATH COMMITTED, AND DOETH THAT WHICH IS LAWFUL AND RIGHT, [*HE SHALL SAVE HIS SOUL ALIVE.] BECAUSE HE CONSIDERETH, (WHY??? CONSIDERETH IS A FREE CHOICE, COME LET US R_E_A_S_O_N TOGETHER SAYETH THE LORD!) AND TURNETH AWAY FROM ALL HIS TRANSGRESSIONS THAT HE HATH COMMITTED, [*HE SHALL SURELY LIVE, HE SHALL NOT DIE]. ...

*[FOR I HAVE [NO PLEASURE IN THE DEATH OF HIM THAT DIETH, SAYETH THE LORD GOD: *WHEREFORE TURN YOURSELVES, AND LIVE YE.]" (See Eze. 18:24-32 in part)

OK: We see also that this is talking about the SECOND DEATH! See Eze. 18:4 & Eze. 18:verse 20!! "The [SOUL] that sinneth, IT SHALL DIE]."

---John
_________________
Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9 for our provisions on earth, thank you Master!

 

[Solo]

[quote="John the Baptist":b0205]

[quote="John the Baptist":b0205]satan a once saved created being is immortal?? Scripture please? ---John

What was satan saved from if he was once saved? Scripture Please!

The post of yours is a non/saved jesuit tactic! Avoid the question with another question!

The question you avoided? it was the one that you posted that stated that satan has immortality! It was asked of you where in God's Word does one find such a statement???

I was just wondering about your being Born Again in the first place is all???? Revelation 22:18-19 & Ecclesiastes 3:14 Or can one not say that he goofed? (and of course the King James is much more clearly stated, huh?) ---John

Answer the question John, what was satan saved from? You are declaring him a once saved created being. Do you suppose that created angels die or are they immortal?

I am saved by the blood of Jesus Christ and his work on the cross. It is only because of believing in him that I was born of the Spirit of God, or as Jesus stated it, born again. Now that that is settled and you can quiet your soul about it, answer my question as to why satan is a once saved created being. I am beginning to doubt your ability to understand plain english without attacking a person with some ad hominem because you refuse to debate in a loving way.

PS Jesus asked questions of unbelievers and children of the devil whenever he was asked questions that he perceived as being an attack. I did the same thing. If Jesus was an unsaved Jesuit pulling a tactic by asking a question, then I am too.
[/quote:b0205]
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John here: You are telling me that Christ answered my question by doing as you have done??? OK, whatever.
[/quote:b0205]

John, you really need to start paying better attention, and read a little more carefully. I posted a question in answer to your question because I discerned another attack coming from you, so I did as Jesus did to the Pharisees when they asked Him a question. Jesus answered the Pharisee's question with a question. The Pharisees did just as you did. They would not answer Jesus' question.

And Lucifer was created perfect before he committed the sin against the Holy Ghost. Ezekiel 28:15 But, that to is left for whatever ones desire is?? Saved from what you ask???? 2 Corinthians 4:1-2.

And satan was created immortal as are all angels, and iniquity was found in him whereupon he will be destroyed after God casts him out of the mountain of heaven. Satan was never saved from anything. He was created immortal and the most beautiful angel, therefore, he did not have to be saved from anything. As soon as iniquity was found in him, God declared that he would be destroyed. Ezekiel 28:14-16.

Therefore I ask you again, What was satan saved from. He was perfect at creation so he did not need saved. After iniquity was found in him, God declared that he would be cast out of heaven and destroyed. Once again no salvation.

Satan did not need saved prior to his iniquity as he was created perfect, and God did not save him from being cast out of heaven and being destroyed.

And clearing up your post for you being Born Again?? What proof was that?

The proof of my salvation is the word of God, and the witness of the Holy Spirit that dwells within me. What is the proof of your salvation?

The ones of Hebrews 11:13 were said to be dead in the faith! (they had died faithful!!) And the Revelation 20:12 ones surely are judged by the books! And what is the tree of life for as seen in Revelation 22:14 if all of Christ's creation do not have [conditional] immortality!!

John, you seem confused about what salvation is, and how one is saved, and how long one is saved for. Perhaps you should ask God to reveal to you by the Holy Spirit how it is that you are saved, if you are, and also how you keep your salvation. If you continue to sin against God by breaking the commandment that Jesus teaches about the obligation of love that believers are to have toward their brothers in Christ. If you continue to sin against this commandment given you by Jesus Christ, how are you going to get into heaven with a righteous white robe?

Then you are telling me that God had Lucifer around in eternity?? Come on, do you know what immortal means?? NO CREATED OR ANY OTHER BEGINNING!!

I did not tell you that Lucifer was around in eternity. I spoke of satan as being created and immortal. Perhaps you are confused by what immortal means. CAN GOD NOT CREATE THAT WHICH IS IMMORTAL WITH A BEGINNING? ALL ANGELS WERE CREATED AND HAVE A BEGINNING, AND THEY ARE IMMORTAL. ADAM AND EVE WERE CREATED PERFECT WITH A BEGINNING AND THEY TOO WERE IMMORTAL UNTIL SIN.
Paul writes that when Jesus returns, believers will change in a twinkling of an eye, the mortal will put on immortality, and the corruptible will put on incorruption.

You my friend are mortal and corrupt until the day of the first resurrection just as all believers.

And your sins are blotted out??? When? It seems that the time 'of refreshing' had already came the first time in Acts, huh? See Acts 3:19

JESUS PAID THE PRICE FOR THE WAGES OF SIN WHICH IS DEATH ON THE CROSS. HE PAID THAT PRICE FOR MY SIN INDEBTEDNESS AT THAT TIME. MY SINS WERE BLOTTED OUT AT THE MOMENT THAT I REPENTED OF BEING A CHILD OF SATAN AND BELIEVED IN JESUS AS MY LORD AND SAVIOR REDEEMING ME FROM SIN. Acts 3:19 speaks of the refreshing that takes place when the blood of Christ is applied to an individual at the point of repentance and belief in Jesus.

 

[John the Baptist]

Gary_Bee wrote:
The Unpardonable Sin
__________________
This subject was the one that got me banned over at the other forum. Perhaps the 'sincere in heart' have come over on this 123 site to continue on to know & understand Truth? Several are ones that are new, to me at least? (this even, is from a much earlier posting here!)

Regardless: The Holy Spirit is being shed about to those honest in heart ones, while others are taking their own fate into their own hands. John
******************


The Bible gives us the perfect example of the unpardonable sin.

Pharisees Commit the Unpardonable Sin (Matthew 12:31,32)

Quote:
12:31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 12:32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. (NKJV)


12:31 the blasphemy against the Spirit. The sin Jesus was confronting was the Pharisees’ deliberate rejection of that which they knew to be of God (cf. John 11:48; Acts 4:16). They could not deny the realty of what the Holy Spirit had done through Him, so they attributed to Satan a work that they knew was of God (v. 24; Mark 3:22).

12:32 it will be forgiven him. Someone never exposed to Christ’s divine power and presence might reject Him in ignorance and be forgivenâ€â€assuming the unbelief gives way to genuine repentance. Even a Pharisee such as Saul of Tarsus could be forgiven for speaking “against the Son of Man†or persecuting His followersâ€â€because his unbelief stemmed from ignorance (1 Tim. 1:13). But those who know His claims are true and reject Him anyway sin “against the Holy Spiritâ€Ââ€â€because it is the Holy Spirit who testifies of Christ and makes His truth known to us (John 15:26; 16:14, 15). No forgiveness was possible for these Pharisees who witnessed His miracles firsthand, knew the truth of His claims, and still blasphemed the Holy Spiritâ€â€because they had already rejected the fullest possible revelation.

Source: John F. MacArthur, Jr., The MacArthur Study Bible.


********
John here, OK: John F. was close to Truth. A 'Born Again' Christian is given the 'Earnest' of the Holy Spirit. That is the REQUIRED starting point. (Acts 5:32) This person is to be 'LED' not forced by the Holy Spirit. (Romans 8:14)
We come as far as we have been taught as seen in Matthew 28:20. (shame on the false preachers neglect!) Anyhow: The Masters Word does not give up on us. He SENDS us more Truth. (Hosea 4:6) He CONVICTS us of it! We are S-L-O-W in doing it! It is 'ON PAST' our Matt. 28:20 teaching of the OMISSION of our first acceptance.

We know that we are wrong now! SIN. (James 1:15) We still are IN CHRIST & can be forgiven. Yet, we keep rejecting the Holy Spirits leading, we Quench & Grieve Him by doing this. We tell ourselves, I AM MADE A PARTAKER OF THE HOLY GHOST! I HAVE TASTED OF THE WORD OF GOD! I HAVE TASTED OF THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME! (Hebrews. 6:1-6 positives only!)
I say to myself, what MORE DO I NEED? I am saved!?? Then some even hear or believe (?) 'once saved always saved' which will be the cause of reams & ream's of people in the lake of fire!

This process is what David in Psalms 19:13 was praying about! Asking the Lord in prayer to keep him BACK [*ALSO] FROM *PRESUMPTUOUS] SIN'S! Sinning on purpose, [knowingly] and OPEN TO ONE 'KICKING AGAINST THE PRICKS OF THE HOLY SPIRITS CONVICTION!!' as Saul (Paul) was doing in Acts 9:5.

There were a host of finally saved MATURE saints like David who after being converted (Born Again) who perhaps came very close shipwreck. (Psalms came after David's mess) Who knows how close Paul came to this point? King Saul started off great, and ended up having the Holy Spirit removed from him, that which the Word states that God HAD GIVEN him! And on & on it goes. Peter? 'AFTER THOU ART CONVERTED, go strengthen the brethren Finally after near shipwreck, he went out & WEPT BITTERLY! [FINALLY BORN AGAIN!]

And these ALL still sinned, but it was not a continuous PRESUMPTUOUS James 1:15's ENDING. Nor the sin UNTO DEATH! 1 John 5:16-17. But a dieing in the MATURE FAITH! Hebrews 11:13

1 John 5:16-17 tells us that ALL unrighteousness is sin. And there is a sin unto death. There is a cut off time where we no longer will respond to the Lord's STRIVING! (see Gen. 6:3) Regardless if we are or were once saved or lost. The problem is with us. We are un/reachable! We JUST WILL NOT DO THAT LORD! Case in point in closing: Christ' bottom line against sinning the sin against the Holy Ghost is... "IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS" *THE 7TH. DAY SABBATH INCLUDED!

And what did Christ' Word say again in Hosea 4:6??? "I WILL ALSO REJECT THEE" I for one, BELIEVE HIS COMPLETE EVERLASTING GOSPEL!
Rev. 14:6

---John
_________________
Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9 for our provisions on earth, thank you Master!

 

[Orthodoxy]

I have bee a christian for 9 years, I have always questioned the once saved always saved thing. If you look back at the 2000 years of the church history, do we really thing that the body of christ preached this like it does in the 20th and 21 century, the reformation didn't start till 1515. It just seems like everything that the roman catholic church believed was denounced by the protestant reformation out of spite. Even early church fathers didn't agree with what is being preached in this era... personally I'm still searching for what the bible says, there are a lot of verses that speak for both ways, but this era of christainity won't touch verses that don't go with the comfortable once saved always saved doctrine. :smt102

check out what early great church fathers said
Irenaeus, Tertullian, Cyprian,
Polycarp, Justin Martyr, Origen
http://www.bible.ca/indexHistory.htm

DavidDavid,

Dear friend, If you are not Orthodox Christian you should be and I suggest you investigate the authentic and historical faith of the Holy Orthodox Church if you have not already.

This verse shows the Church what Jesus believes about the "once saved alway save" theology:

Jesus says in Matthew 10:22, Mark 13:13, And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Jesus says in Matthew 24:13, But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Jesus says in Mark 16:16, He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Now it appears to the Orthodox Christian that Jesus, Paul and the others believed salvation was a "race to be run" or a "fight to be fought". Can we agree?

So what happens in a race? Well first one must know the race is being conducted. Once one hears of the race then one must enter the race. How does Jesus and the Apostles claim one enters the race? It is right there in Mark 16:16, Baptism.

So one hears of the race (the gospel preached), finds where the race is being conducted "the Church", then by faith seeks to enter the race, how? By "Baptism" or signing up in "the Church. How can one tell if one is in the race? Well, normally he has a number or "a name written on a stone" in the christian scheme of the race. When I entered "the race" my name was changed to "Kyril", russian for Saint Cyril of Jerusalem defender against the Arian heresy. So one has a name change like simon to peter and other OT name changes example Genesis 32:28.

Is one saved upon enterance into the race? No. He enters to begin running the race. At anytime he may break his leg or just drop out. It is ok to rest in the race, crawl in the race, sit down in the race, sprint in the race, take a nap in the race, even to quit the race then get back into the race but no one can "win the race" until he "finishes the race". Is that not what salvation is "finishing the race" "fighting the good fight"? What race is ever won at the start line? How many are lost there?

So the Christian race is hearing the word (being saved), acting on the word by faith (being saved), being "born again" entering the race by baptism(being saved in Christ), running the race with repentance (being saved in Christ), then and only then if one "endures to the end" the "same shall be saved". If one is "in Christ" at the end of "the Race" then one is "saved". Jesus Christ will never leave us but we sure can leave "the Race" just as no man can escape the love of God. We will always remain in the love of God but many will not by thier own will enter the race or they quit. For this much is certain "Winners never quit and quitters never win".

Once one endures to the end he is "saved" always and forever and no man can pluck Him from His hand.

I think we all can agree the "end of the race" on the earth is death of the body, right?

With all due respect and love in Christ,

Orthodoxy

 

[von]

Wow, Orthodoxy, very well put.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

So people dont' believe that God gives us the ability to endure the race?

 

[John the Baptist]

So people dont' believe that God gives us the ability to endure the race?

First must come 'total surrender' What will ye have me to do Lord??? Acts 9:5-6. Then comes the 'provisions' needed for the race! Philippians 4:13 & 2 Corinthians 12:9
---John

_________________
Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9 for our provisions on earth, thank you Master!

 

[Orthodoxy]

So people dont' believe that God gives us the ability to endure the race?

What is a race if we know the outcome?

Would anyone participate in the Olympics if they knew all the other contestants were going to quit and they would win without even a start?

I think I said "then by faith seeks to enter the race". If a man enters a race then his faith will get him to the finish line come H E double toothpicks or high water.

Thank you for your response.

In all love and patients,

Orthodoxy

 

[Orthodoxy]

Wow, Orthodoxy, very well put.

Thank you, von.

May the Lord bless and guide you.

Orthodoxy

 

[Merry Menagerie]

So faith is a gift from God and faith is going to endure us to the end. So therefore it's God who endures us Yes we know the outcome for if we didn't then Jesus should never have said...

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Also through my faith in the finished work on Jesus Christ I know that it's Christ who has already run the race and won it for me. So I abide in Him for His endurance and preservation to be manifest in me

 

[Orthodoxy]

So faith is a gift from God and faith is going to endure us to the end. So therefore it's God who endures us Yes we know the outcome for if we didn't then Jesus should never have said...

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Jesus said that? umm. OK. That is a good verse that backs up my point, thanks. It is this knowledge that will help us endure but is no guarentee we will make it to the end.

[quote:8b5d1]Also through my faith in the finished work on Jesus Christ I know that it's Christ who has already run the race and won it for me. So I abide in Him for His endurance and preservation to be manifest in me

[/quote:8b5d1]

I see. So one can sit the race out. Interesting, however why would Paul say "work of your own salvation in fear and tembling" if sitting out the race was an option?

In love,

Orthodoxy

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Jesus said that? umm. OK. That is a good verse that backs up my point, thanks. It is this knowledge that will help us endure but is no guarentee we will make it to the end.

Then you didn't read the scripture properly - take another look.

I see. So one can sit the race out. Interesting, however why would Paul say "work of your own salvation in fear and tembling" if sitting out the race was an option?

So that we keep our faith in Jesus Christ! Which I do. No I don't run the race - Christ runs it and it's no longer I that liveth but Christ than liveth in me.

 

[Solo]

It is faith in Jesus Christ that I trust his redemptive work as his word states. Jesus is able to save; man is unable to save himself. If salvation were dependant upon man's ability to remain in a saved state, no man would gain access to eternal life,. Thanks to Lord Jesus for giving us new life as a new creature; born of the Spirit of God, born from above, born-again, we are able to abide in Christ Jesus as we walk in the Spirit. We continue to have the flesh, the old man which is mortal and corrupt, battles the Spirit; but since the new birth, we are new creatures in Christ Jesus, sealed unto the day of redemption. Praise God almighty for his saving grace.


17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:17-18[/b]

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Ephesians 1:13-14

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his F1 dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Colossians 1:12-15

20 But ye have not so learned Christ; 21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. 25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. 26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27 Neither give place to the devil. 28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. 29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. Ephesians 4:20-32

 

[John the Baptist]

So faith is a gift from God and faith is going to endure us to the end. So therefore it's God who endures us Yes we know the outcome for if we didn't then Jesus should never have said...

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Also through my faith in the finished work on Jesus Christ I know that it's Christ who has already run the race and won it for me. So I abide in Him for His endurance and preservation to be manifest in me

*****
Finished?

 

[John the Baptist]

It would be impossible to see God saying that 'He does not change', and being the same 'yesterday, today and Forever' with an O.S.A.S. theology only in the N.T.? And there is 'Nothing New' He states???

The Holy Spirit was VERY ACTIVE from day one of Gen. 1 on!! The Purpose of the Holy Spirit [IS] to uplift Christ. Christ was ONLY present in the Old Testament while He was in Israel's presence. Cloud by day & pillar of fire by night. After Christ's death & return & acceptance by the GodHead, (remember-touch me not?) He SENT THE HOLY SPIRIT to make HIM everywhere present! He, the Holy Spirit, DID NOT TESTIFY [of] Himself.

[*STILL IT WAS ALWAYS TO BE CHRIST PUT INTO ONES HEART THAT WAS TO BE DONE BY THE HOLY SPIRIT!] What purpose do you see in the Holy Spirits STRIVING UPON MAN to accept CHRIST in Gen. 6:3 if MAN CANNOT YIELD AND LET CHRIST IN??? See Romans 8:1 & the SAVED ones again from these O.T. Born Again ones by faith of Hebrews 11:13!! And LED by CHRIST (which is EQUAL too & in UNITY with the Holy Spirit) in the Cloud & pillar of Fire, COMPARE Romans 8:14.

How was poor Nicodemus, and ALL OTHERS from Christ's past fold to be Born Again if it was not possible to be so??? Christ stated "THAT YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN"!!! All would have been DOOMED from Christ back, if that was not a possibility!! No, it could be done, and it was done, just in a more local way is all. Being Born Again RECREATES CHRIST INTO THE HEART! 2 Corinthians 3:3 The O.T. is FULL of such ones as this! King David was only one such person. Yet, his writings are of such love for
So in the N.TA. Christ is EVERYWHERE able to save at the same time.

In the O.T. individuals were saved by being in the PRESENCE of Christ only. The END result was wanting for CHRIST to be placed INTO THE HEART BY THE HOLY SPIRIT! (or the Holy Ghost) Question mark is for you to answer, who is the greater????? CHRIST OR THE HOLY SPIRIT? Answer is folly! THEY ARE [GOD] as well as, who we CALL FATHER! {GODHEAD!]

So, the BOTTOM LINE as has been stated, is that as David for one was CONVERTED AND HAD THE LAW OF GOD WRITTEN IN HIS HEART, one on one, so were ALL of the saved in O.T. (Hebrews 11:13) And in the N.T. time God could now do this work omnipresent by the Holy Spirit. Remember again that this work was to UPLIFT WHO? CHRIST & not Himself!!

Remember that satan was the prince of earth after Adam fell, and the Godhead worked with this handicap until Christ again bought back Adams failure. Read Matthew 4:8-9. This is what changed at Christ's FINISHED work!

Ask yourself: Did more miracles get done after Christ's departure than during His stay on earth, even in the O.TA. church? OK: Now ask yourself if ANY OF THESE MIRACLES were more POWERFUL than those that Christ Himself did? The BLIND SEE! The Leper CURED? The LAME WALK? THE DEAD RAISED TO LIFE? (the Conversion of me, if you ONLY knew!)

No. The Holy Spirit in Christ (AS CHRIST MAN) was only a little bit hampered because of mans sin until Christ bought back Adams boundary line. (earth) See Christ's Words again now, of Matthew 4:9-10. This WAS TRUE, until Christ defeated satan at the cross! This is what Christ FINISHED!!

---John